NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

[Inthedetails]

Associated Press News

BREAKING: New York State Police: Limo company operator charged with criminally negligent homicide.

The charges are homicide x 20, I hope.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I would have thought a professional driver would have had the skill and experience to use engine braking if his brakes were failing, and even if they were not. I've driven very similar roads in the Auvergne in central France where signs specifically instruct drivers to use engine braking.

My hunch is that the brakes were messed up on the vehicle.

Driver expertise might help, but I think the failure was with the vehicle and the road/signage/grade.

From what we know now. As more info comes in, we'll know more about the accident, of course.

jmo

 

[Herat]

Upthread someone posted the pre-drive vehicle checklist that is done by someone who is properly licensed. If he would have been properly licensed, he would have known about the checklist and those people would not be dead. IMO, there is dual responsibility.

I disagree. I don’t think having a checklist would have prevented this accident

 

[Herat]

My understanding is that he did have a CDL for a truck. He did not have a Class E license for driving a limousine. I do not believe he would have needed a bus license. Though with the number of passengers he had, it could technically pushed him into that category. It's a bit of a grey area, that he might not have even understood himself.

And that really should be the responsibility of the agency that employs him to know the difference and to comply with licensing regulations.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I never heard of carbon monoxide poisoning inside a normally driven car. It usually happens if car is left running in enclosed space, such as a garage, or when the car is stuck in something such as snow.

Engine gases can leak into the passenger compartment in certain conditions, eg corroded pipes carrying the exhaust gases and corrosion holes in the, eg, the floor of the vehicle. My first car suffered from this until the fault was identified and corrected. I remember becoming rather headachy and dopey in winter when the heater was in use.

 

[Herat]

I would have thought a professional driver would have had the skill and experience to use engine braking if his brakes were failing, and even if they were not. I've driven very similar roads in the Auvergne in central France where signs specifically instruct drivers to use engine braking.

As this was a modification of a stock Ford Expedition, it was likely an automatic shift. It would be slightly more difficult to engine brake in an automatic, especially if there is an issue with the clutch / transmission. He could have realize the brakes had failed and gone to try engine braking that was also futile, as it was too late for the steepness of the grade and the total vehicle weight.

We dont yet know if he was or wasn’t engine braking, do we?

 

[Herat]

Engine gases can leak into the passenger compartment in certain conditions, eg corroded pipes carrying the exhaust gases and corrosion holes in the, eg, the floor of the vehicle. My first car suffered from this until the fault was identified and corrected. I remember becoming rather headachy and dopey in winter when the heater was in use.

With the decceleration forces going from 60 to 0 there is no reason to implicate any other causation of death other than trauma, IMHO.

I just think this carbon monoxide issue is not feasible

 

[oceanblueeyes]

AP news alert: Owner in custody; charges pending.

Thank goodness. I was so worried he would flee and never be found to face justice.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

With the decceleration forces going from 60 to 0 there is no reason to implicate any other causation of death other than trauma, IMHO.

I just think this carbon monoxide issue is not feasible

I dont think this was due to carbon monoxide poisoning either. As you said they all died when the vehicle speed went from 60 mph or more to zero upon impact.

 

[Herat]

Thank goodness. I was so worried he would flee and never be found to face justice.

It’s one of the SONS that is in custody, who was only managing the business, as I understand it. The owner of the business, the father is reported to be in Pakistan for “a medical procedure”

Hmmm. Hard to believe one would go to Pakistan for a medical procedure if you live in the US, or even Dubai

 

[MelmothTheLost]

My hunch is that the brakes were messed up on the vehicle.

All the more reason to be able to use engine braking. I was taught it for driving an ordinary car back in 1980.

Driver expertise might help, but I think the failure was with the vehicle and the road/signage/grade.

I agree to some extent about the road/signage/grade, but you can slow a vehicle very effectively if you can use the gears. With a manual gearbox/stick shift, it's possible to change down from 5th or 6th to 3rd and then to 2nd within 10 or 20 seconds. The vehicle will progressively lurch slower to around 20mph and these passengers would have been thrown around somewhat, but much less than they would have been in simply being thrown against the forward partition at 50 or 60 mph. The downside is that you usually wreck the gearbox in doing so.

I'm not clear about how you would use this type of braking on an automatic gearbox though. I've only driven an automatic a couple of times.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It’s one of the SONS that is in custody, who was only managing the business, as I understand it. The father is reported to be in Pakistan for “a medical procedure”

Hmmm. Hard to believe one would go to Pakistan for a medical procedure if you live in the US, or even Dubai

Oh thank you Herat. I am trying to keep up with so many threads at the moment so I am unable to read through them all.

I say hmmmm too and it's quite convenient that he happens to be out of the country. Have they said when he left and if the invesigators have been able to speak with him? Tia

 

[K_Z]

Nauman Hussain has a interesting history, especially as it pertains to driving convictions. Is this the kind of person that should be operating or managing a passenger transportation company?

According to New York State Troopers, 24-year-old Hussain has “an extensive suspension and conviction list” that had previously been cleared, for reasons unknown. What’s more, Hussain’s brother, 25-year-old Shahyer Hussain, also has a significant record: his driver’s license is revoked and he has received 28 driving suspensions, 24 of them having occurred on separate dates.

Nauman Hussain: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

From 2014:

COHOES — Two brothers, each of whom claimed to be the other, will face a judge next week to answer several charges, State Police said

When stopped Thursday on Route 787 in Cohoes, neither Shahyer, 25, nor Nauman Hussain, 24, of Gansevoort had identification and were "adamant: in their claims that they were each other, troopers said.

Police said they discovered that Shahyer Hussain, the driver, had a revoked New York state driver's license with 28 suspensions — 24 of them occurring on 12 different dates. Nauman, the passenger, had a valid state driver's license but with an extensive suspension and conviction list which had been cleared, troopers said.

Cops: Brothers impersonated each other in Cohoes

 

[Herat]

Nauman Hussain has a interesting history, especially as it pertains to driving convictions. Is this the kind of person that should be operating or managing a passenger transportation company?



Nauman Hussain: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

From 2014:



Cops: Brothers impersonated each other in Cohoes

In a reputable business, these guys would have been dropped because of these issues as the owner would realize their own liability. And a reputable business would, of course, have appropriate insurance, too.

I’m sure there is no law against employing drivers who have traffic or other non-felonious infractions.

 

[Inthedetails]

All the more reason to be able to use engine braking. I was taught it for driving an ordinary car back in 1980.



I agree to some extent about the road/signage/grade, but you can slow a vehicle very effectively if you can use the gears. With a manual gearbox/stick shift, it's possible to change down from 5th or 6th to 3rd and then to 2nd within 10 or 20 seconds. The vehicle will progressively lurch slower to around 20mph and these passengers would have been thrown around somewhat, but much less than they would have been in simply being thrown against the forward partition at 50 or 60 mph. The downside is that you usually wreck the gearbox in doing so.

I'm not clear about how you would use this type of braking on an automatic gearbox though. I've only driven an automatic a couple of times.

You should have been driving that vehicle. Sounds like you could've saved lives.

jmo

 

[Herat]

You should have been driving that vehicle. Sounds like you could've saved lives.

jmo

I’ve engine- braked in an automatic SUV and it isn’t THAT difficult, you just have to have a bit of a calm head to get it out of automatic into a lower gear and be ready to lurch and risk fouling up the transmission

 

[Inthedetails]

In a reputable business, these guys would have been dropped because of these issues as the owner would realize their own liability. And a reputable business would, of course, have appropriate insurance, too.

I’m sure there is no law against employing drivers who have traffic or other non-felonious infractions.

Exactly.

I once worked for a crook and as soon as I figured it out, I quit. If a boss will disregard regulations and tell you it's okay, leave!! It's like a virus being at a disreputable business - everything is affected and the disregard for rules just spreads and spreads. The decent people leave, which leaves a rotten core of disreputable people who will sell out their integrity. Get out!

Didn't mean to lecture there....just happened.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Delete. Wrong thread!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

You should have been driving that vehicle. Sounds like you could've saved lives.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, though I suspect it would be misplaced. I have virtually no experience with automatic transmission.

 

[windrower]

Police arrest limo company operator involved in fatal crash

Nauman Hussain, the operator of Prestige Limousine, was taken into custody following a traffic stop Wednesday, New York State Police said.

The operator of the limousine company whose vehicle was involved in the fatal accident that killed 20 people Saturday in upstate New York has been arrested, state police told NBC News.

Nauman Hussain, the operator of Prestige Limousine, was taken into custody following a controlled traffic stop on Wednesday, New York State Police said...

I wonder if he was driving a company vehicle when he was arrested . . . .