Canada - Canadian hockey team fatal bus accident tragedy, 6 April 2018

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gregjrichards said:
Thank you for the update. I’m not surprised by this news. I wonder what he is facing as possible punishment.
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Rarely are maximum fines imposed but in this instance it sure would be appropriate.

Are these charges absolutely unrelated or a result of interviews with the truck driver? Because I fleetingly have to wonder, if driving logs weren’t being kept, was the truck driver required by his employer to exceed the legal maximum of driving hours and will that be his defence? I’d also presume safety regulations /programs include various ways to minimize driver fatigue.

“....Officials with Alberta Transportation said eight charges have now been laid against the trucking company owner.

They include seven federal charges: two counts of failing to maintain logs for drivers hours of service, three counts of failing to monitor the compliance of a driver under safety regulations, and two counts of having more than one daily log for any day. The eighth charge under provincial regulations alleges failure to have or follow a written safety program.....

....The maximum penalty for a federal hours of service failing is $5,000 per offence, while the provincial charge carries a $310 penalty. A court can, however, use discretion to impose a penalty up to $2,000.”
Owner of Calgary trucking company involved in Humboldt bus crash charged
 
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--------NEW YORK (Reuters) - The limousine involved in an upstate New York crash that killed 20 people over the weekend failed inspection last month, and its driver did not have the proper license to operate the vehicle, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Monday.
---------deadliest U.S. transport crash in nearly a decade, according to federal authorities.
--------All three of the company’s vehicles had violations when they were inspected last month, records show
-------The limousine which killed 20 Americans in a New York road accident was owned and maintained by an immigrant with a fraud conviction who ignored diverse safety warnings from state regulators, according to media reports.
-------Hussain, the owner was caught defrauding other immigrants in 2002 in Albany, N.Y., according to a 2012 article in the TimesUnion.com news site. After arriving in 1994, “he was taking payments from immigrants, some of whom could not read English, in a scheme to cheat on state exams to obtain driver’s licenses,” the site reported.
------New information about Hussain’s background was revealed in the Newburgh case when he disclosed on the witness stand that he was arrested twice in Pakistan for a murder he said he didn’t commit before emigrating to the United States in 1994. He testified that his father bribed police to let him go after a third arrest.
------Governor Cuomo also said the driver of the vehicle, identified by multiple law enforcement officials as Scott Lisnicchia, 53, did not have the specific license — a commercial driver’s license with a passenger endorsement — required to drive the limousine.

Reports: Limousine that Killed 20 Americans Owned by Immigrant Who Worked with FBI | Breitbart

Webslueths has a thread here NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash - Schoharie County - 6 Oct 2018
 
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gregjrichards said:
I am outraged that nothing has been improved at this intersection six months later. How many more people have to die or be left with life changing injuries?
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intersections don't cause accidents, people do......just like guns don't kill people, people do

if there was an issue with the intersection there would have been another accident there by now,

the past history of accidents at this intersection (or i should say lack of them) proves the intersection is safe
 
On the more general topic of hazardous truck driving, I hope this is okay to post. It’s a horrifying dash cam video released by the RCMP, showing a passenger van narrowly avoiding a head on collision after a semi swerved directly into its lane near Revelstoke BC.

 
MistyWaters said:
On the more general topic of hazardous truck driving, I hope this is okay to post. It’s a horrifying dash cam video released by the RCMP, showing a passenger van narrowly avoiding a head on collision after a semi swerved directly into its lane near Revelstoke BC.

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i don't really agree with posting this here, as this post and video is somewhat insinuating that truckers are dangerous drivers,

truck drivers in general are the safest drivers on the road, when you compare how many trucks are on the road to how many accidents the trucks actually cause it is an extremely small percentage,

when a truck does cause an accident the results are more severe simply because the vehicle is larger and heavier and thats all, not because the driver is any worse,

if the driver in the humboldt crash was driving a honda civic, the result of the crash would be a heck of a lot different, the result and his punishment is more severe simply because of the vehicle he was driving.....which IMO is unfair
 
will4u said:
i don't really agree with posting this here, as this post and video is somewhat insinuating that truckers are dangerous drivers,

truck drivers in general are the safest drivers on the road, when you compare how many trucks are on the road to how many accidents the trucks actually cause it is an extremely small percentage,

when a truck does cause an accident the results are more severe simply because the vehicle is larger and heavier and thats all, not because the driver is any worse,

if the driver in the humboldt crash was driving a honda civic, the result of the crash would be a heck of a lot different, the result and his punishment is more severe simply because of the vehicle he was driving.....which IMO is unfair
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I disagree with the part I have bolded. All drivers, regardless of what they are driving, have a responsibility to operate that vehicle in a safe manner. The bigger the vehicle, the more damage can be done. I live in an area that has been deemed "carnage alley" in regards to the high number of traffic fatalities on one of Canada's busiest highways. I've lived here 30+ years and it's only in the past 10 or so that I can recall severe charges being laid against transport drivers who have caused deaths or serious injury. Even minor accidents and the resulting charges are making the news down here now.

I have friends who drive transports and I've been a passenger several times. Ask any older driver who has been driving for 20-30 yrs and they'll tell you that things have changed significantly in the past 10-15 yrs.
 
puppyraiser said:
I have friends who drive transports
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as do i,

truckers are quite often blamed for accidents that are not thier fault,

lets take traveling on a crowded highway for example,

traffic is going around 80kph in a 100kph zone because traffic is heavy,

trucker is leaving ample room in front of him to stop just in case, all of a sudden two cars immediately cut into the trucks lane in front of him, and traffic all of a sudden comes to a hault,

trucker rear ends the car that cuts in front of him because he can not stop in time,

now technically going by the highway traffic act laws the trucker is the one at fault in this accident but shouldn't be,

people don't understand that a truck can not stop as fast as thier little car can,
 
will4u said:
i don't really agree with posting this here, as this post and video is somewhat insinuating that truckers are dangerous drivers,

truck drivers in general are the safest drivers on the road, when you compare how many trucks are on the road to how many accidents the trucks actually cause it is an extremely small percentage,

when a truck does cause an accident the results are more severe simply because the vehicle is larger and heavier and thats all, not because the driver is any worse,

if the driver in the humboldt crash was driving a honda civic, the result of the crash would be a heck of a lot different, the result and his punishment is more severe simply because of the vehicle he was driving.....which IMO is unfair
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I strongly believe the Humbolt crash has greatly elevated public awareness regarding the astonishing lack of adequate standardization of requirements for truck driver training, licensing and registration of trucking companies in various provinces. Certainly not all truck drivers drive dangerously but the few who do, unknowingly or otherwise, have the potential to cause disaster of great magnitude. Most commonly as happened in the Humboldt example, the truck driver is uninjured, the casualties occur to innocent occupants of the vehicle that was hit. To bring into the discussion that other motorists sometimes create dangerous incidents for truckers is a reality, but not a factor in this case which involves dangerous driving by the truck driver.

It’s downright needless that innocent people including members of the Humboldt hockey team must lose their lives before lax laws are changed in order to improve safety within the trucking industry. The video I linked illustrates a semi almost causing a collision and the reason why truck driver training and safe driving matters to us all.

This very informative link was also posted earlier.
'Lives are hanging in the balance': Why some newly licensed truckers aren't ready for the road | CBC News
 
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MistyWaters said:
To bring into the discussion that other motorists sometimes create dangerous incidents for truckers is a reality, but not a factor in this case which involves dangerous driving by the truck driver.
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in all fairness to the driver, we do not know that right now,

i am not willing to tar and feather and hang this man (like most of the public) unless he is convicted of the charges in court,

i put myself in this mans position, everybody makes mistakes,

the amount of time it took law enforcement to bring criminal charges against the driver is a HUGE red flag to me,

that tells me they had a very difficult time proving criminal charges could even be laid,

law enforcement are just trying to please the public, and are trying to look like heros by laying criminal charges,

with a good lawyer (and not a public defender) this guy doesn't serve any time, its probation at worst IMO,

the problem is, if this trial takes place in saskatchewan, or even anywhere in canada, i dont believe the man will get a fair trail....the jury will already have the man guilty before the trial begins, just to please the public,

it will not be a case of innocent until proven guilty.....it will be guilty until proven innocent....which is a shame
 
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will4u said:
in all fairness to the driver, we do not know that right now,

i am not willing to tar and feather and hang this man (like most of the public) unless he is convicted of the charges in court,

i put myself in this mans position, everybody makes mistakes,

the amount of time it took law enforcement to bring criminal charges against the driver is a HUGE red flag to me,

that tells me they had a very difficult time proving criminal charges could even be laid,

law enforcement are just trying to please the public, and are trying to look like heros by laying criminal charges,

with a good lawyer (and not a public defender) this guy doesn't serve any time, its probation at worst IMO,

the problem is, if this trial takes place in saskatchewan, or even anywhere in canada, i dont believe the man will get a fair trail....the jury will already have the man guilty before the trial begins, just to please the public,

it will not be a case of innocent until proven guilty.....it will be guilty until proven innocent....which is a shame
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For all we know at this time, it’s possible the semi truck driver will mount a defence based on inaquate training or lack of proper supervision involving adherance to safety regulations, if the charges recently laid on the truck driving company offer any indication.

One can be a dangerous driver for many reasons. Not all reasons lead to convictions in a Court of Law.

In Canada it typically can take a year or longer to reconstruct accidents scenes so the length of time it took to file charges is neither unusual nor suspicious. Often two years or more involving aircraft. Part of the reason for that is having the data extracted from the semi’s black box by the US manufacturer does not happen overnight.
 
MistyWaters said:
For all we know at this time, it’s possible the semi truck driver will mount a defence based on inaquate training or lack of proper supervision involving adherance to safety regulations
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and that may well be an adequate and truthful defense,

that is why we have courts and trials,

law enforcement only lay charges, thats it.....its up to the court to decide innocent or guilty
 
will4u said:
and that may well be an adequate and truthful defense,

that is why we have courts and trials,

law enforcement only lay charges, thats it.....its up to the court to decide innocent or guilty
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Yes, we agree the extent of the drivers responsibility will indeed be a matter for the court to decide.

And why the focus of trucking industry training, laws and safety regulations has become nationally escalated by this crash is because the driver was very new on the job. I’ve not noticed anyone ever suggest the semi driver in this case maliciously broadsided the bus. As yet, we don’t know his side of the story.

ETA In about the 70s or 80s it seemed to be common knowledge that truckers were required to drive for so many hours and so many days that taking stay-awake pills was an absolute necessity. It wasn’t the drivers who chose this, it was the trucking companies and how the shipments were scheduled. During that time either there were no regulations, or regulations weren’t enforced. But I thought since then the industry had drastically improved the working conditions of semi truck drivers. Maybe, maybe not....
 
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gregjrichards said:
I am outraged that nothing has been improved at this intersection six months later. How many more people have to die or be left with life changing injuries?
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why? the intersection didn't cause the accident,

that would be like saying they need to make changes to an airport runway because there was a plane crash, even though millions of other planes have landed on the same runway safely,

the runway didn't cause the accident, the pilot did

if there was a safety issue with the intersection, there would have been another accident there by now
 
I've been following this thread as a concerned person, hockey player, hockey coach, and hockey mom. But, since I am also following NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash - Schoharie County - 6 Oct 2018, I have to say - driving safety is a two way street (pun intended). As will4u states "the intersection didn't cause the accident" and in NY the intersection didn't cause the accident. As drivers, we are going to drive over hills, down country roads, into the setting sun, the morning sun, over bridges, through cities - the driver is responsible for being alert, following the rules of the road and should, one prays, know how to operate the vehicle they are driving in a safe manner and ensures it is safe to drive (tires, etc). Rumble strips, flashing lights, speed limits are all well and good but will never prevent an inexperienced, impaired, impatient driver from harming others.
 
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