JonBenet Ramsey Documentary

[Laura Mountford]

I think the family has alluded to the cause of this to have been from bicycling. I’m sure that would be possible somehow, but it seems unlikely.

Hmmm yes I hadn't thought of that. I can't picture a 6 year old riding a bike that vigorously though.

 

[awillis0513]

Like something a young, male child with an odd curiosity might do perhaps?

I mean, possibly, right? A third of child molestation cases are actually committed by individuals under the age of 18.

Also, The Independent wrote up some of the reasons this type of crime occurs.

What drives a child to commit sexual abuse?

I do believe Patsy and John staged the scene, but the idea of them using the paintbrush on JonBenet seems to be too much. In every interview I have seen of the Ramseys, I have believed that they truly love both of their children and they honestly mourned JonBenet’s death deeply.

 

[awillis0513]

Hmmm yes I hadn't thought of that. I can't picture a 6 year old riding a bike that vigorously though.

Yeah, I wasn’t exactly an active kid, but I feel the same way. But a bad accident could possibly cause this.

 

[UKGuy]

I base the paintbrush theory off of the small piece of wood found in JonBenet. I actually agree with the Ramseys that the idea that it was transferred accidentally into her during the collection of evidence doesn’t make sense.

However, if someone was penetrating JonBenet for sexual gratification purposes, why would they use the paintbrush? It seems as if it were a part of staging or even just an act of curiosity. It’s an odd part of the scene, to me.

awillis0513,
The paintbrush and the sexual assault might represent separate events, i.e. the former being used to cover for the latter?

The salient question here is: if the internal assault, by whatever means, is staging then why bother hiding it, you want the investigators to think JonBenet was assaulted by an intruder, right?

i.e. no need for size-12's or Burke's longjohns as the object of the exercise to to make it evident something nasty has taken place.

.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
The paintbrush and the sexual assault might represent separate events, i.e. the former being used to cover for the latter?

The salient question here is: if the internal assault, by whatever means, is staging then why bother hiding it, you want the investigators to think JonBenet was assaulted by an intruder, right?

i.e. no need for size-12's or Burke's longjohns as the object of the exercise to to make it evident something nasty has taken place.

.

I imagine that the Ramseys would have been torn between preserving whatever dignity JonBenet could maintain in her death and the need to protect their family. I can't say I could understand what they would have been going through that morning. But I could see their actions had two very separate drives, which is why they may have been willing to cover-up much of the scene, but still couldn't go as far as to leave JonBenet half-naked in their basement. I'm sure Patsy, especially, as a woman who was always concerned with image, wouldn't want to leave her daughter in that position. That's just my opinion.

 

[UKGuy]

awillis0513,
The paintbrush and the sexual assault might represent separate events, i.e. the former being used to cover for the latter?

The salient question here is: if the internal assault, by whatever means, is staging then why bother hiding it, you want the investigators to think JonBenet was assaulted by an intruder, right?

i.e. no need for size-12's or Burke's longjohns as the object of the exercise to to make it evident something nasty has taken place.

If the use of the paintbrush was not staged then it might have been part of a ritualistic assault either before or after JonBenet's death?

This is where Kolar's speculation regarding BR's mental health is relevant, of course it might simply be imaginative thinking on Kolar's part?

.

 

[archieil]

If I run out of fresh fruit this is my substitute at mealtime. I never used to like condensed milk till I tried it with pineapple, yummy stuff.

.

Is it far from strawberries and cream?

Maybe I should check it myself. Fresh and after an hour or two.
Pineapples are now common market fruit here and I ate it few times in the past year.

My planted pineapple is huge. As far as I remember 3 years to be able to eat the fruit.

 

[UKGuy]

I imagine that the Ramseys would have been torn between preserving whatever dignity JonBenet could maintain in her death and the need to protect their family. I can't say I could understand what they would have been going through that morning. But I could see their actions had two very separate drives, which is why they may have been willing to cover-up much of the scene, but still couldn't go as far as to leave JonBenet half-naked in their basement. I'm sure Patsy, especially, as a woman who was always concerned with image, wouldn't want to leave her daughter in that position. That's just my opinion.

awillis0513,
Yes other members have suggested this is what happened, calling it undoing.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Is it far from strawberries and cream?

Maybe I should check it myself. Fresh and after an hour or two.
Pineapples are now common market fruit here and I ate it few times in the past year.

My planted pineapple is huge. As far as I remember 3 years to be able to eat the fruit.

archieil,
Slightly different as strawberries are slightly sweet and cream can taste bland but the texture is well creamy.

The condensed milk and pineapple both have sugar or sucrose so it is a sweet snack, the pineapple is light on your stomach, so is an excellent snack.


.

 

[awillis0513]

My opinion on Burke, just my opinion, is that Burke was the victim of abuse by someone in his life. I don't think it was his parents, but rather by someone outside of his family.

The notes from Bonita Sauer, a paralegal for one of the attorneys present at the Grand Jury proceedings say this regarding the interview Burke had with Dr. Suzanne Bernard:

"Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn’t be a secret."
​

I know many people disregard the notes entirely. However, this does reflect actual statements made in the video of the interview.

Burke being abused could explain much of his behavior, both that which is alleged and that which is seen on the interview tapes. There's the reports of scatolia, the inappropriate responses to his sister's death, and the stories regarding his temper.

This is just my opinion based on the evidence I've seen.

 

[UKGuy]

My opinion on Burke, just my opinion, is that Burke was the victim of abuse by someone in his life. I don't think it was his parents, but rather by someone outside of his family.

The notes from Bonita Sauer, a paralegal for one of the attorneys present at the Grand Jury proceedings say this regarding the interview Burke had with Dr. Suzanne Bernard:

"Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn’t be a secret."
​

I know many people disregard the notes entirely. However, this does reflect actual statements made in the video of the interview.

Burke being abused could explain much of his behavior, both that which is alleged and that which is seen on the interview tapes. There's the reports of scatolia, the inappropriate responses to his sister's death, and the stories regarding his temper.

This is just my opinion based on the evidence I've seen.

awillis0513,
You could be right. Alternatively he might have the behavoral syndrome ascribed to him by Kolar in his book, which when merged with the scatolia, results in BR leaving his fecally soiled pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom, according to Kolar?

Either way, BR seems to have issues, lets wait and see if he marries?

If the case really is BDI and BR has been afforded legal anonymity due to his age, etc. Will this extend into adulthood, e.g. would BR be allowed to father and bring up children?

.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
You could be right. Alternatively he might have the behavoral syndrome ascribed to him by Kolar in his book, which when merged with the scatolia, results in BR leaving his fecally soiled pajama pants on JonBenet's bedroom, according to Kolar?

Either way, BR seems to have issues, lets wait and see if he marries?

If the case really is BDI and BR has been afforded legal anonymity due to his age, etc. Will this extend into adulthood, e.g. would BR be allowed to father and bring up children?

.

I would hope the Ramseys at least got Burke a ton of therapy over the years. That would be essential in him being able to live a reasonably normal life.

I remember this line sticking out to me during the Dr. Phil interview. Burke said he speaks to JonBenet still and one of the things he said was he tells her, "I wish I was up there right now.” I hope this doesn't reflect any sort of suicidal ideation. Regardless of everything, Burke was a child who experienced a large amount of trauma and, hopefully, he did get help for it.

 

[SarahThePrincess]

I think part of the reason that it's so hard to come to a consensus on this case is that some mainstream media reporters, such as Woodward and Barbara Walters, have perpetuated rumors and false information that they've been told as fact from the Ramsey camp. It seems Paula ran with the fruit cocktail story based not on the autopsy, but on a note somewhere in that 3,000 page "murder book." I'm not entirely sure what the note read, but it clearly doesn't line up with the report itself.

The average American is going to believe someone like Paula Woodward and it's hard to swallow that a celebrated investigative reporter could publish such inaccuracies. However, we have to always remember that somewhere in telling this story Woodward became a friend of the Ramseys and, therefore, no longer an objective source.

I swore I read they found cherries and grape skins in her stomach. But I’m sorry, I must be incorrect. I must have read this information in some irresponsible publication about the murder.

 

[archieil]

His reaction could be connected with some type of abuse (not necessarily sexual type) or the fact they were playing home/doctor and he was probably asked for it by parents/psychologist(s) before an interview.

It is hard to be sure reaction is connected to things before the crime and after it.

 

[kaykay543]

It has always stuck with me when Linda Arndt said (paraphrasing) every single member in a family plays a role when there is child sexual abuse.

 

[Swirlz]

Dr. Cyril Wecht, a well-known forensic pathologist, has no doubt that the 45-pound child was molested. “If she had been taken to a hospital emergency room, and doctors had seen the genital evidence, her father would have been arrested,” he has said. The vaginal opening, according to Dr. Robert Kirschner of the University of Chicago’s pathology department, was twice the normal size for six-year-olds. “The genital injuries indicate penetration,” he says, “but probably not by a penis, and are evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation.” There were also blood and urine stains on her underpants.

JonBenet Ramsey: Missing Innocence

 

[archieil]

I am going to skip some crazy ideas but I have a question.

Anyone knows what kind of health care JonBenet was given by her parents?

I assume it was a health care given by a John business company?

What was included in her health package?

 

[UKGuy]

I am going to skip some crazy ideas but I have a question.

Anyone knows what kind of health care JonBenet was given by her parents?

I assume it was a health care given by a John business company?

What was included in her health package?

archieil,
The family likely had a standard health insurance policy plus money did not matter as they were so wealthy, they could buy health treatments at the drop of a hat, consider Patsy's cancer treatment.

JonBenet's doctor was pediatrician Dr. Francesco Beuf a family friend a private practitioner. He prescribed the family meds after JonBenet's death.

Since the parents turned to him and not any other doctor after JonBenet's death I've always assumed he knew more than what he revealed in public.

Speculating, Dr. Beuf may have known if JonBenet was being abused by another family member, consider how JonBenet was attending a therapist, so there will be stuff written down somewhere, unless its been erased or destroyed as rumored in Dr. Beuf's case.

This is what may have been testified at the Grand Jury leading to the parents having a Count of Child Abuse levelled at them, e.g. they knew JonBenet was vulnerableto abuse?

Anyone wondered if any of the Grand Jury jurors visit the forums just to check out if anyone is close to the truth?

.

 

[archieil]

Do you know the answer to my question?

An idea of: "If she had been taken to a hospital emergency room, and doctors had seen the genital evidence"

suggests that a murderer were actively "helping" to "solve" this crime.

It is an idea of someone who called 911 without a knowledge of parents.

In my country, this child would be with one of the parents most of the time. Having a mother so caring and having time I would rather expect she would have 24h per day additional care of the parent.

[edit] In my country, children hospitals have problems with mothers sleeping on a ground by the bed of so young children.

 

[UKGuy]

Do you know the answer to my question?

An idea of: "If she had been taken to a hospital emergency room, and doctors had seen the genital evidence"

suggests that a murderer were actively "helping" to "solve" this crime.

It is an idea of someone who called 911 without a knowledge of parents.

In my country, this child would be with one of the parents most of the time. Having a mother so caring and having time I would rather expect she would have 24h per day additional care of the parent.

[edit] In my country, children hospitals have problems with mothers sleeping on a ground by the bed of so young children.

archieil

Do you know the answer to my question?

I guess I misunderstood you.

.