Patsy involved = BDI

[fr brown]

Dirty Harry was released in 1971. Most people didn’t have VCRs until the late 80’s. There is more than just one line or reference from that movie-as you well know. JR lied to investigators when he mentioned that he had seen the movie “Speed”, but it was on an airplane and I didn’t listen to the sound. Ya, ok. Kinda convienant? .

That’s like saying- Yes, it was me who stole a cookie from the cookie jar, however I didn’t eat the cookie.

My rather obvious point is that Patsy could have become familiar with Dirty Harry at many points and in various ways between 1971 and 1996.

The other obvious thing, which I know you are only pretending to not understand, is that John was talking about Speed on June 23, 1998, and nobody is claiming that John was never complicit. Anybody who is even slightly familiar with JonBenet (or even Foreign Faction) knows that Steve Thomas believes that John went from suspicion to certainty. Exactly when and how that happened, we don't really know.

It would be nice to know what John said early in the morning on Dec. 26. We know he told French that Patsy had found the note at the bottom of the stairs. He didn't say he saw it there himself. He didn't say he moved it over by the patio door.

He said that he read to both kids before they went to sleep. He subsequently changed that, possibly because he didn't want to be the last known person to see JonBenet.

 

[fr brown]

Patsy, btw, told interviewers that she saw Speed on an airplane.

 

[FY1234]

Patsy, btw, told interviewers that she saw Speed on an airplane.

When? I only read John said he saw Speed on an airplane not Patsy.

 

[fr brown]

When? I only read John said he saw Speed on an airplane not Patsy.

June 23, 1998:

"TOM HANEY: How about things like Dirty Harry?

PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.

TOM HANEY: Speed.

PATSY RAMSEY: I think I might have seen that on an airplane. Is that about some bus or something that loses the brakes?

TOM HANEY: I think so.

PATSY RAMSEY: I think I watched that on an airplane."

 

[fr brown]

In Paula Woodward's We Have Your Daughter there are photocopies of French's and Arndt's reports about December 26. Those are useful, but the book is pretty dishonest otherwise. I suggest getting it used on amazon so as not to put money in Woodward's pocket.

A couple of things of interest: First, Arndt's report says that John told her he "personally checked all of the doors and all of the windows in the home this morning." Ramsey also told her that all but one of the doors on the first floor had deadbolts. It doesn't say he checked these doors and windows between the 911 call and Ofc. French's arrival. French's report says, " A quick inspection of the interior of the house, as well as talking to Mr. Ramsey, indicated that there was no obvious signs of a forced entry or struggle. Mr. Ramsey told me that the house appeared to be locked up as it had been left." It's not clear to me that Ramsey checked all first floor doors before Ofc. French's arrival. It seems like at least some of them, the ones not ordinarily used perhaps and the windows, might have been checked on a walk-through with French.

When I check my own doors I just look to see which way the lock levers are pointing; unless it's dark, I don't have to go up and try them.

Second, French's report says that when he arrived John Ramsey told him that Burke was asleep upstairs. Burke, I'm pretty sure, was upstairs in bed at this point, though I doubt he was asleep. At the end of the report, French says that Ramsey "again told me that he [Burke] had slept through the night." If I get up at ten minutes to six in the morning, I consider myself to have slept through the night.

 

[archieil]

I think that John Ramsey could have assumed Burke was sleeping all night.

Do you have any information about Patsy stating this?

 

[fr brown]

I think that John Ramsey could have assumed Burke was sleeping all night.

Do you have any information about Patsy stating this?

I don't see anything in the reports about Patsy saying anything about Burke other than they were all leaving on a trip.

 

[Cottonstar]

From the reports that morning:

Page 4)Patsy did tell me that she believed the house had been locked when she and the rest of her family went to bed on the night of Dec 25.

Page 6) I had asked John if the doors to the house had been locked when the family went to bed last night. John told me that he personally checked all of the doors and all of the windows in the home this morning. All of the doors and windows were locked. John told me that although the house does have an alarm system the family has not used the alarm system for months.

(Page 6) John told me that the housekeeper, (LHP), did have a key to the house. (LHP) was
the only person living in Colorado who had a key to the Ramsey house.

Steve Thomas, also points out that John told three cops [French, Arndt and Whitson] that he’d secured the residence Christmas night.

Also from Patsy:

“Who could have done this to JonBenét?” Patsy asked.

“I wish I knew,” I said. “Are you sure you had all the doors locked?”

“Yes, we are sure.”

“Are you sure you pushed the button on the patio door?”

“We had all the windows and doors locked” Patsy said.

Before I could say another word, someone else was talking to Patsy.

That was the last time I saw Patsy or John.” - LHP from PMPT, Schiller.

Both JR and PR, told numerous police officers and friends that they had checked their house on Christmas night and it was secure.

This shows they were on the same page from the get-go. It also shows how they did NOT stage the house to set up an intruder. They set it up as an inside job with LHP being the first person who they tried to pin it on. This was their formulated plan or story prior to 5:52am.

This is compelling behavioral evidence against JR and PR. Does anyone know why the Ramseys didn’t take the opportunity to blame an unknown intruder that morning by saying they don’t know if the doors and windows were locked that night?

A. They are psychologically distancing themselves from having the responsibility or complicity in their daughters death. In other words if they claimed a door was left open or unlocked then they would have to bear most of the responsibility for what happened to JBR. The embarrassment and humiliation from family and friends would have been unbearable for both of them.

In a nutshell, the parents weren’t going to admit they were neglectful, bad parents by admitting a door was left unsecure. And this is precisely what the GJ indicted them for anyway.

 

[UKGuy]

From the reports that morning:

Page 4)Patsy did tell me that she believed the house had been locked when she and the rest of her family went to bed on the night of Dec 25.

Page 6) I had asked John if the doors to the house had been locked when the family went to bed last night. John told me that he personally checked all of the doors and all of the windows in the home this morning. All of the doors and windows were locked. John told me that although the house does have an alarm system the family has not used the alarm system for months.

(Page 6) John told me that the housekeeper, (LHP), did have a key to the house. (LHP) was
the only person living in Colorado who had a key to the Ramsey house.

Steve Thomas, also points out that John told three cops [French, Arndt and Whitson] that he’d secured the residence Christmas night.

Also from Patsy:

“Who could have done this to JonBenét?” Patsy asked.

“I wish I knew,” I said. “Are you sure you had all the doors locked?”

“Yes, we are sure.”

“Are you sure you pushed the button on the patio door?”

“We had all the windows and doors locked” Patsy said.

Before I could say another word, someone else was talking to Patsy.

That was the last time I saw Patsy or John.” - LHP from PMPT, Schiller.

Both JR and PR, told numerous police officers and friends that they had checked their house on Christmas night and it was secure.

This shows they were on the same page from the get-go. It also shows how they did NOT stage the house to set up an intruder. They set it up as an inside job with LHP being the first person who they tried to pin it on. This was their formulated plan or story prior to 5:52am.

This is compelling behavioral evidence against JR and PR. Does anyone know why the Ramseys didn’t take the opportunity to blame an unknown intruder that morning by saying they don’t know if the doors and windows were locked that night?

A. They are psychologically distancing themselves from having the responsibility or complicity in their daughters death. In other words if they claimed a door was left open or unlocked then they would have to bear most of the responsibility for what happened to JBR. The embarrassment and humiliation from family and friends would have been unbearable for both of them.

In a nutshell, the parents weren’t going to admit they were neglectful, bad parents by admitting a door was left unsecure. And this is precisely what the GJ indicted them for anyway.

Cottonstar,

This is compelling behavioral evidence against JR and PR. Does anyone know why the Ramseys didn’t take the opportunity to blame an unknown intruder that morning by saying they don’t know if the doors and windows were locked that night?

BBM: Sure, the crime-scene has, by default, been setup as an Intruder scenario, no questions need to be asked, since a Ransom Note is available !

The Ransom Note implies someone other than a Ramsey resident entered the house and removed JonBenet, meaning there should be an exit point somewhere?

So the R's said they locked all the doors and windows, etc. You reckon:

if they claimed a door was left open or unlocked then they would have to bear most of the responsibility for what happened to JBR. The embarrassment and humiliation from family and friends would have been unbearable for both of them.

So what about the basement window which was not only open but also broken?

I reckon the R's revised a prior staging and slung poor LHP under the bus, i.e. its after the fact.

.

 

[fr brown]

....Both JR and PR, told numerous police officers and friends that they had checked their house on Christmas night and it was secure.

This shows they were on the same page from the get-go....

Well, it shows that both of them said the house was locked the previous night. Probably because the house was locked the previous night.

 

[fr brown]

An odd thing about these two reports is that we have two versions of which came first: finding the note or finding JonBenet missing.

French's report: "Ms. Ramsey told me that she had gone into JonBenet's room at about 0545 hours to wake her in preparation for a short trip the family was to take later that day. She found Jonbenet's room empty and then discovered the note as she walked down the stairs."

Arndt's report: "Ofc. French provided me with the following information:...Patsy woke up this morning and discovered the suspected ransom note at the bottom of the spiral staircase....After Patsy discovered the note she went to JonBenet's bedroom. Patsy discovered JonBenet was missing...."

and later

"The following is information I received from Patsy: Patsy had gotten up on the morning of Dec. 26, 1996 and had gone down the stairs from her bedroom to the kitchen....At the bottom of of this spiral staircase Patsy discovered a 3 page handwritten note....After Patsy looked at the note and read it she ran to JonBenet's bedroom...."


Did French really provide two diametrically opposed versions, one in his report, one to Arndt? I don't think I've ever seen this mentioned, let alone explained.

 

[awillis0513]

“We had all the windows and doors locked” Patsy said.

The crime scene has always bothered me. It’s both too much and too little.

The rambling ransom note, the staging of the body, and John’s dramatic finding of the body is too much. These things all run contrary to what they’re attempting to prove; an intruder broke into the Ramsey house to kill JonBenet Ramsey.

However, there’s clearly not enough evidence to show that someone broke in. All of the doors and windows, besides the infamous basement window, were locked. The window that was broken still had spider webs in the corners that were undisturbed. There’s no clues pointing to forceable entry that make much sense.

All of this makes me 100% believe this is a staged scene, and it was staged by a person or persons who didn’t anticipate in advance that they’d need to do so. If the person who staged the scene had expected this, I would have to think they’d have been more convincing and thorough. There was even a book on John’s nightstand that could have aided them.

I can only imagine the panic they were under getting this all together. But I definitely believe a person other than killer did the staging and that they were completely unprepared.

 

[archieil]

For truth, these reports are not exclusive.

the keyword is "1st time" in the morning.

[edit] possible questions:

1. What did you do in the morning?

2. What did you do seeing a note?

 

[UKGuy]

The crime scene has always bothered me. It’s both too much and too little.

The rambling ransom note, the staging of the body, and John’s dramatic finding of the body is too much. These things all run contrary to what they’re attempting to prove; an intruder broke into the Ramsey house to kill JonBenet Ramsey.

However, there’s clearly not enough evidence to show that someone broke in. All of the doors and windows, besides the infamous basement window, were locked. The window that was broken still had spider webs in the corners that were undisturbed. There’s no clues pointing to forceable entry that make much sense.

All of this makes me 100% believe this is a staged scene, and it was staged by a person or persons who didn’t anticipate in advance that they’d need to do so. If the person who staged the scene had expected this, I would have to think they’d have been more convincing and thorough. There was even a book on John’s nightstand that could have aided them.

I can only imagine the panic they were under getting this all together. But I definitely believe a person other than killer did the staging and that they were completely unprepared.

awillis0513,
So amateurishly staged the Grand Jury leveled a Count of staging against both parents.

Perfect Murder, Perfect Town Excerpt

Hoffmann-Pugh was then asked to make a list of everyone she knew who frequented the house and a list of those who had keys. After two hours of intense questioning, she was so upset that for a moment she couldn’t find her own key. Months later, the police asked her about scuff marks they found on the wall below the broken basement window and near John Andrew’s suitcase. Maybe someone had climbed in that night and left the marks. Had she ever seen the marks? No, she told them.

The police theorized that if someone other than the Ramseys had killed JonBenét, he or she might have used a key to get in, since there was no clear sign of forced entry. On December 26 John Ramsey had told the police there weren’t any keys “hidden under rocks” in the yard and that only John Andrew, Nedra, and Linda had extra keys. But three weeks later, on January 21, Patsy’s attorney told the police that the Whites, the Fernies, and Joe Barnhill also had keys.

In April 1997, Ellis Armistead, an investigator hired by the Ramseys, would tell the police that there were twenty more extra keys outstanding. In the end, however, the detectives could find only nine people who said they had keys. Six of the keys were returned. Three were missing.

The police soon learned that the front door locked automatically when it was closed. The police were told that Patsy, possibly without her husband’s knowledge, had hidden a key outdoors near the front door because whenever she went out front for something, she got locked out. Now that key was also missing.

As Cottonstar suggests the parents setup LHP by not providing an obvious entry or exit point, leaving use of a key as self-evident, is this why JR never mentioned the open broken window, like your daughter's gone and a window that is hanging open means zilch?

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Cottonstar,

BBM: Sure, the crime-scene has, by default, been setup as an Intruder scenario, no questions need to be asked, since a Ransom Note is available !

The Ransom Note implies someone other than a Ramsey resident entered the house and removed JonBenet, meaning there should be an exit point somewhere?

So the R's said they locked all the doors and windows, etc. You reckon:

So what about the basement window which was not only open but also broken?

I reckon the R's revised a prior staging and slung poor LHP under the bus, i.e. its after the fact.

.

UK-
Since JR, PR, and BR all lied about the basement window in their interviews, I reckon that they are attempting to distance themselves from when and how that window got broken.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,
So amateurishly staged the Grand Jury leveled a Count of staging against both parents.

Perfect Murder, Perfect Town Excerpt

As Cottonstar suggests the parents setup LHP by not providing an obvious entry or exit point, leaving use of a key as self-evident, is this why JR never mentioned the open broken window, like your daughter's gone and a window that is hanging open means zilch?

.

That window situation is an odd one. The window was actually closed when investigators first went through the home. It doesn't seem likely that an intruder would close a window behind them on the way out of a house.

Also, if this were any other family than the Ramseys, I wouldn't believe that a broken window would go unrepaired for such a long period of time. However, the Ramseys are shockingly messy, as attested to by their former housekeeper and even John, himself. I could definitely see them leaving that window in that shape for a relatively long period of time.

 

[UKGuy]

That window situation is an odd one. The window was actually closed when investigators first went through the home. It doesn't seem likely that an intruder would close a window behind them on the way out of a house.

Also, if this were any other family than the Ramseys, I wouldn't believe that a broken window would go unrepaired for such a long period of time. However, the Ramseys are shockingly messy, as attested to by their former housekeeper and even John, himself. I could definitely see them leaving that window in that shape for a relatively long period of time.

awillis0513,

The window was actually closed when investigators first went through the home.

So who do you think opened it and why?
.

 

[UKGuy]

UK-
Since JR, PR, and BR all lied about the basement window in their interviews, I reckon that they are attempting to distance themselves from when and how that window got broken.

Cottonstar,

I agree, looks like JR ignored it until it suited his agenda.


.

 

[awillis0513]

awillis0513,

So who do you think opened it and why?
.

To clarify, it was apparently nearly closed. It was only open roughly one inch, which is certainly not enough for someone to get through. It would mean that if an intruder came in and out of the window, they did attempt to close it on the way out.

I could see John Ramsey's story about breaking the window to get in after locking himself out to be completely accurate. I think he eventually disclosed that to police because he figured one of the employees they had tending to the home would mention it in a police interview. I think for photos the window was opened after it was initially photographed to show the debris around the window outside and the in tact spider web.

JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / Potential Points of Entry

 

[fr brown]

It's a risky business trying to set someone up who could turn out to have an alibi. I agree that saying the ransom note was on the spiral staircase where LHP habitually placed stuff was an attempt to implicate her, but it seems to be more of a spontaneous embellishment by Patsy. On Dec. 26th, John didn't say he saw the note there. Subsequent testimony by them on the issue was hopelessly confused and backfired.

Much better to frame someone you know is sleeping upstairs.