AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #8

[feendrache]

Most guns eject spent rounds with each trigger pull. Depending on the type of weapon, and nearby obstructions, these casings can travel several feet. They can also roll.

This was from last post but didn't get to comment in time (also sorry for not knowing how to quote properly from a different thread ):

I wish to clarify this answer because "most guns" is potentially very misleading to those who do not understand firearms.

This explanation specifically refers to a semi-automatic firearm. While the spent round of a semi-auto can be observed as "ejecting" when "the trigger is pulled", this isn't how a chamber ejection and loading of a new round to shoot again actually works in any gun.

The reason it happens when pulling (and then releasing) the trigger with semi-autos is because the gun has extra components that allow it to do the extra steps for the shooter.

Just like how a car's automatic transmission shifts gears for you rather than requiring you to manually shift them it's the same idea for semi-automatics (vs a non-automatic). The gears are still shifted (or rather have to be shifted) , regardless as to whether the car or the driver does the shifting.

This is why I felt the need to elaborate-- the guns still have to go through the mechanical process of firing, ejecting, and reloading the chamber-- it's just a matter of whether the gun or the user is doing the above steps after the trigger pull to be ready to shoot again.

 

[Ballz]

The Chair being carried out is a big deal IMO. Definitely not standard cushion ties on that. Seperate rope or string was used plus it was covered in blood. That explains initial gun shots heard by neighbors and the time it took for the 911 call. The barricaded bathroom doesnt fit that scenario however neither does the 4 min escape time

 

[MassGuy]

I think maybe Jayme knew something about the killer/had witnessed too much and that's the reason that she was taken.

He’d still have to kill her anyway, especially if he took her.

If someone sees too much, you kill them on the spot. You don’t go through the risk of kidnapping them to simply kill them at another location.

Generally.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I’ve all but eliminated robbery at this point.

I believe these people were specifically targeted.

In a revenge crime, I’d expect Jayme to have been killed alongside her parents.

Taking her from that scene, is a tremendous risk. The only reason that that makes sense to me, is if this guy wanted her sexually.

My initial thought was that this crime was precipitated by some prior online relationship. I’m backing away from this theory, as I would expect some movement in the case by now.

Hmmm... I agree with all that except that the guy wanted her sexually. I just don’t see a pedophile stepping up his game to just throw in a double homicide for no real reason.

 

[Mauge]

There has been speculation that Denise may have barricaded herself in the bathroom while leaving Jayme in another part of the house. Maybe Jayme was actually with her Mom in the bathroom, and if so it is possible that dispatch heard both of their voices on the 911 call. That would confirm to LE that Jayme was in the house when the murders took place. MOO.

I've been thinking the same the last couple days. However, i think they may have barricaded themselves in the bathroom without a phone. The perp then would have taken some time to break through the door (which would explain the 20 something minutes from the shooting to the 911 call), and would have given Jayme time to dial 911 (perhaps she escaped while the mom was being attacked). Just speculating; MOO
This is horrible, just horrible.

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

And with a 13 year old hostage!

But to be fair 4-7 minutes at 60 miles per hour is 4-7 miles. That's another town over in many cases.

So... Cameron, Turtle Lake, Rice Lake or Hillsdale, probably based on the map. CAMERON. Have they been in contact with their LE like at all?

 

[Kyja]

Because we have no real timeline of when Jayme and her Mum arrived home from the family gathering and no timeline of when her Dad arrived home from work it's impossible to know how long the whole ordeal went on for. We know the neighbours that heard the gunshots didn't arrive home until approximately 11:30pm so I think it's a real possibility there might have been more gunshots, screaming etc before they arrived home.
I just wish we had more information, so damn frustrating....

 

[Andreee]

I have a 13 year old mainstream daughter involved with social media. There is no way in hell I believe Jayme is involved with a situation in which she interacted with an online pedophile . Most parents warn against contact with unknown people to the point that children are fearful of others. I believe she is an innocent victim. I do believe her mother did everything she could until her last breath (including making a 911 call) to protect her. I think the person was known to the father and it was a debt owed .[/QUO

 

[MassGuy]

Hmmm... I agree with all that except that the guy wanted her sexually. I just don’t see a pedophile stepping up his game to just throw in a double homicide for no real reason.

That’s precisely why I’m so confused here. We don’t see this (double murder) in sexually motivated abductions.

We do see this if a family member kidnaps a child, but there doesn’t seem to be anything like that going on here.

I see what you’re saying in regards to this perhaps not being sexually motivated. I just don’t lean that way right now.

 

[Wrenny]

...since there have been no reports about the condition of the bathroom door. IMO. I do remember reading here earlier a door was taken from the house.

I do think the image of the investigators taking out the chair is important. [...]

They took the front storm door and front wooden door.
They took the chair.
I'm sure they took a lot of other stuff too. Those just got attention because they happened to be seen in videos. I saw a video where they were carrying out a plastic tote, and something else that looked miscellaneous. I expect they were carrying things out for a long time, and what we happened to see depended on when the news cameras happened to be there.

 

[Pennysmom1]

There was discussion earlier wondering about why there isn't much of a reward offered yet. <modsnip - not from an allowed source>

 

[bluesneakers]

I have a 13 year old mainstream daughter involved with social media. There is no way in hell I believe Jayme is involved with a situation in which she interacted with an online pedophile . Most parents warn against contact with unknown people to the point that children are fearful of others. I believe she is an innocent victim. I do believe her mother did everything she could until her last breath (including making a 911 call) to protect her. I think the person was known to the father and it was a debt owed .

Predators don't usually announce themselves like that. Someone could easily pretend to be another 13yo girl to befriend her.

A debt for what??

 

[DocBrew]

That’s precisely why I’m so confused here. We don’t see this (double murder) in sexually motivated abductions.

We do see this if a family member kidnaps a child, but there doesn’t seem to be anything like that going on here.

I see what you’re saying in regards to this perhaps not being sexually motivated. I just don’t lean that way right now.

It reminds me of the Short case from 2002. MO even seems identical at first glance.
UNSOLVED: The murders of Michael, Mary and Jennifer Short

 

[SharonNeedles]

@MassGuy - for me to believe that it was about Jayme I’d need something beyond “he took her instead of killing her” to support it. Without something else I’m thinking the motive for taking her is much darker. It might not take much to convince me, but at this point I don’t see anything.

What would it take to convince you it wasn’t about Jayme?

For the record, I’m singling you out because I can totally relate to how you think. I’m a bit baffled that we’re in agreement on just about everything here and getting to different conclusions.

 

[JaneEyre]

So... Cameron, Turtle Lake, Rice Lake or Hillsdale, probably based on the map. CAMERON. Have they been in contact with their LE like at all?

It's in the same county, so I'm sure.

 

[human]

Why would the perp kick in the door?

Dad goes to door because he hears knocking or doorbell,

Then what? He asks who is there and they kick in the door which would take time.

The frame is not splintered. The actual several inched thick door is splintered as shown in the previous thread.

Not a hollow core door.

So why does dad simply not open the door? Why is he there while they are kicking it in?

 

[MassGuy]

@MassGuy - for me to believe that it was about Jayme I’d need something beyond “he took her instead of killing her” to support it. Without something else I’m thinking the motive for taking her is much darker. It might not take much to convince me, but at this point I don’t see anything.

What would it take to convince you it wasn’t about Jayme?

For the record, I’m singling you out because I can totally relate to how you think. I’m a bit baffled that we’re in agreement on just about everything here and getting to different conclusions.

I absolutely could get to the idea that this wasn’t about Jayme. The way I would get there, is simply more information.

Some sort of work conflict. Some other type of strife by someone close to the family.

What do you mean by a “darker motive.”

 

[Steelslady]

If they are able to narrow down mobile phone signals bouncing off that nearby tower around that time of night, wonder if that could lead them in some way? I did not know that if u put your phone in airplane mode it cant be pinged , just came across that.

Learn something new every day- I never knew that about the airplane mode, either. Thanks for that information!

 

[MsBetsy]

There was discussion earlier wondering about why there isn't much of a reward offered yet. I did find someone's comment on the Barron County Sheriff Dept Facebook page stating this:

<<Not yet. They said last night at the Town Hall that the FBI has a process for rewards and will let us know when it's time to offer one>>

I was wondering if maybe there was a certain process and they might be working on getting one together.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I feel like it was, simply because there’s no upside to taking her hostage unless that’s the original intent.

JMO

Perhaps the killer is impulsive, disorganized and didn't think to bring extra bullets.
A .45 Colt (a big gun like described by the neighbor) holds six bullets. Perhaps the killer used 2 shots to kill the dad and then had to shoot through the locked bathroom door 4 times to kill the mom. He wouldn't have any bullets left to kill Jayme, yet she was a witness and needed to die. Strangulation takes over 4 minutes, so it would be more practical to grab Jayme and throw her in the truck rather than trying to strangle her.