AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[MassGuy]

I used to think that they heard jayme’s voice on the 911 call so that’s how they knew age was there. But now I’m now wondering if the mom or dad were heard telling Jayme to run.

But their suicide assumption/mistake Maura lore sense with their just hearing jayme’s voice. Maybe they heard why did you do this or please don’t shoot please don’t shoot.

I’m just thinking out loud here and have literally just come to the opposite conclusion of the point I came here to make

Don’t forget, the police didn’t hear the phone call at the time it was made, only the dispatcher did.

The dispatcher may not have understood what they heard, and LE may have only learned things about the call when they played it back later on.

Whatever the reason, LE believes that Jayme was in that house.

 

[mama sleuth]

BBM

Why would he kick in the door to his own house when he has the key?

Even if he sees something in his house, it's much better for him to use the key than break his foot trying to kick in the door.

I'm in the MN suburbs, just outside of Minneapolis, and I along w/ a lot of my neighbors don't lock our doors. Nor do I have a key to ANY of my doors. If I came home, saw an odd vehicle in my driveway, 1st door available to me is the front door. If they had locked it, sure as heck I would kick it in. ** locking my doors tonight.

 

[Colorado303]

Apologies if I missed a discussion about this but I am wondering what you all think about it taking one full week for the car information to come out? I assume they checked all the nearby cameras within a day or two. Presumably local DMV checks were done too. Do you think it took a full week to ID 2 cars in on local cameras? Or is it more likely that they "found" these cars due to credible tips? Just curious.

It probably took several days to gather all the surveillence tapes, then a few more days to review them and clean up blurry images. I think if they’d identified a car that definitely seemed suspicious (parked outside Cloff house, w/JC in the car, etc.) we would have heard about it sooner. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were no particularly suspicious vehicles so they looked at every one that drove by a camera, then eliminated the ones w/an explanation for being there (live nearby, getting off work, etc) and were left w/these two they couldn’t explain.

 

[justwannahelp]

This case has been so frustrating because so little info has been released. LE has been incredibly disciplined in not leaking details.

Not sure why I think this, but my gut tells me that this crime started much earlier in the evening and that other gunshots and violence occurred before the neighbors got home that night. That the two shots we know about were not the only shots.

JMO

Do we know if the neighbors were indeed out earlier in the night?

 

[otto]

Plus the whole mathematical equation to figure out the real time because the clock was set ahead. Did she remember correctly AND did she do the math correctly?

The more the witness (with good intentions, I'm sure) tells her story, the less I find it credible. I don't want to toss it out completely because obvious there were shots! But I'm just not totally convinced she has the times right.

jmo

Mathematica is my thing.

What arithmetic real clock are you trying to figure out. The clock in the neighbors house was set several minutes fast, so they in fact heard the gunshots at 12:31AM according to police.

Why is that a problem, and why are you having difficulties with arithmetic?

 

[cluciano63]

I thought LE said the call did not contain words? Just noises? Certainly if a name was mentioned, LE might not say so, but probably would not lie, since they did (I believe) comment on the call at all. Rather than refuse to do so.

 

[cluciano63]

I still think “multiple” shots could be two. Twins are considered “multiple births” from most definitions, i.e more than one.

 

[not.a.muggle]

Im gonna need a link for that my good friend.

Just kidding. Thanks for reminding them of that.

I know, I know...I was looking for it, but I gave up. So. Many. Threads.

 

[Dr.StClements]

Yeah I certainly believe there were more shots the neighbors didn’t hear.

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. The neighbours' reports could be incorrect for all manner of reasons. I go back to what I mentioned in a previous post about a close relative apparently relaying what LE had told them when explaining the two deaths. This got written up in the press very early on in the case. It was mentioned that LE had explained to close family that James was inside the house and had been answering the front door, when he was shot multiple times, including shots being fired through the front door at him. There were several spent cases near to his body and his death was most probably instantaneous.
I hope LE speaks to the neighbours - sternly if necessary - to advise them to not continu

 

[Cardinal47]

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you. The neighbours' reports could be incorrect for all manner of reasons. I go back to what I mentioned in a previous post about a close relative apparently relaying what LE had told them when explaining the two deaths. This got written up in the press very early on in the case. It was mentioned that LE had explained to close family that James was inside the house and had been answering the front door, when he was shot multiple times, including shots being fired through the front door at him. There were several spent cases near to his body and his death was most probably instantaneous.
I hope LE speaks to the neighbours - sternly if necessary - to advise them to not continu

Wow shot through the door? Somebody was enraged! Neighbors only heard two shots?

 

[justwannahelp]

I thought LE said the call did not contain words? Just noises? Certainly if a name was mentioned, LE might not say so, but probably would not lie, since they did (I believe) comment on the call at all. Rather than refuse to do so.

I thought they said that whoever called did not speak to the dispatcher

But didn’t they say they heard yelling?

 

[TravelingBug]

I


She may not have had the opportunity.

She gets up to see who and what. Sees a guy with a gun and runs into the bathroom because ? Maybe Jayme’s room is out of reach for her?

Heck, she could have already been shot and then just done everything she could to crawl or stumble or whatever to get to a phone to try to make a call because that was the only hope at that point - get help that could (hopefully) help JC and get medical help, as well.

 

[Confusion]

Giving up on getting caught up before closing again tonight. I'm just trying to see if I can make a case for DC being the target, be gentle with your criticism! Okay, the guy gets drunk and starts thinking about her. He has a rifle/shotgun/bb gun or whatever was used in his trunk, gets it out and goes to the house. He pounds on the door finally kicking a hole in it, and shoots Dad when he goes to see what happened. He then enters and goes after DC. He is in the process of assaulting her, or trying to, when JC comes to see what's going on. The guy is distracted enough for DC to push him off, grab her phone and run to another room (bathroom or wherever she was found). He shoots DC as she's calling 911 and chases after JC, who is heading for the door screaming for help. The dispatcher may have heard JC yelling for help, DC telling her to run and the guy yelling for her to stop. DC may have landed on the phone as she fell and disconnected the call, and tried to call back before dying. That would leave the phone "in service" and incoming calls would go to voice mail. JC may have been caught by the car and thrown into the trunk (which may have still been open from getting the weapon out) to be dealt with later. When he pulled out of the driveway, he'd be able to see that no LE were coming yet, so he could have just drove quickly until he was a fairly safe distance and then slowed down to a reasonable speed.

Since drunks don't usually think that rationally while in that state, maybe he had been working 2nd shift at Jennie-o's and just decided after work that it was time to act on his fantasies? I know, it needs work. MOO

Edited to correct my creative spelling...

 

[otto]

Why would the neighbor's reports about two gunshots at 12:31AM be inaccurate?

The 911 call was 2o minutes later. Correlation between the gunshot and the 911 call should not be held up as some sort of reference to incorrect manner of reasons.

 

[justwannahelp]

Ditto.

Sorry

I’m behind, obviously.

I don’t want to stir a settled pot. I’ll go back some

 

[not.a.muggle]

I used to think that they heard jayme’s voice on the 911 call so that’s how they knew she was there. But now I’m wondering if the mom or dad were heard telling Jayme to run and THAT is how they knew she was there.

I thought that as well. I know they said they could only discern “help” but it still crossed my mind. We don’t know enough about the call.

 

[whatsherface]

I’m sorry if this has been asked, but I’m trying to keep up as best as I can. Why is Denise’s brother on this report/call log?: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf
I haven’t seen an explanation yet, I’m sorry if I’ve missed it.

Thank you for this.. gives me questions about the phones .. it has Denise listed number and the 911 call came from another number on that page where dispatch wrote report and that’s not listed or is it just blacked out on the front page.. did anyone notice that as well?

 

[MassGuy]

I thought that as well. I know they said they could only discern “help” but it still crossed my mind. We don’t know enough about the call.

We don’t know enough about anything. Even a little more information, could really close the gap here.

 

[bizzle2]

Mathematica is my thing.

What arithmetic real clock are you trying to figure out. The clock in the neighbors house was set several minutes fast, so they in fact heard the gunshots at 12:31AM according to police.

Why is that a problem, and why are you having difficulties with arithmetic?

BBM
I don't think LE has actually confirmed the 12:31AM time of the two shots. The neighbor has said that is what she told LE.

 

[debirlfan]

I admit that I've only recently started following this story, so it's possible that some of the following doesn't fit the facts, but... Speculation mode on.

Rather than being after someone, I think the perp/perps (equal odds on one vs two) were actually after something - probably either money or drugs. I suppose it's possible the family was involved in something, but more likely, ither they had faulty information, or they went to the wrong house.

The father hears noises at the front door and goes to see what it is. As he's trying to see out the window, the perp/perps kick the door in. The father may be knocked over/knocked backwards by the door - in any event, the perp shoots him twice. These are the gunshots the neighbor hears.

Mother may have heard this and told the daughter to hide, and may then have intentionally allowed the perps to see her in an attempt to lure them away from the daughter's hiding spot. Perhaps she ran into the bathroom? Perps drag her out of the bathroom and tie her up in a chair (the chair pictured with rope or whatever clinging to it). Perps probably start torturing the mother to get her to tell them where to find the drugs/money/whatever that they think is there. Likely they don't know there's anyone else in the house.

This goes on for 15/20 minutes. Daughter, who has been hiding, decides that she has to do something. Sneaks into parent's bedroom (or where ever) and grabs mom's phone, calls 911. (Maybe she's already tried her own phone - maybe the battery is dead? Or maybe wherever she's hiding, mom's phone is closer.) The screaming for help may be the mother.

My guess would be that at this point, either the daughter tries to help her mother/tries to make a break for it or the perps are searching the house - in any event, they realize that there's someone else in the house, and that person has undoubtedly called the police. They're out of time, they shoot the mother. Most likely the daughter has escaped and they go after her - but remotely possible that they still think the family has money/drugs/whatever and they take the daughter thinking they can either ransom her, or she can tell them where to find what they want.