AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

[BIC]

How to get your patio door UNLATCHED and OFF the slider tracks ( meaning one panel is off and that space is open to air).
I know this works. Might want to ignore the last part about breaking the glass because NO ONE does this. Break your window and climb in first.

https://www.ackermansecurity.com/news/why-burglars-love-sliding-glass-doors-amp-how

One last thing: This is assuming the Closs family didn't have a " stick" or additional after- market lock installed. I've never had either one on a patio door because if all else failed, the intruder WOULD break the glass. That's a last ditch maneuver. Just read the ackermansecurity.com report, OK?

That is quick, but why bother taking it off the tracks?

 

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot.... cannot believe we're on thread # 14, and not much closer to finding Jayme !

 

[debirlfan]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/houseoverhead-12-jpg.153034/

I hope this link worked and I am sorry I dont know how to inbed pics into the message. I finally found a picture of the driveway and its interesting that it looks like there is plenty of room for the white car to get out even if the truck was pulled forward close to or up to the garage. It also looks like enough room to turn around so one would be going forward out if the driveway (no need for u turn). I wonder if the way the truck is parked is significant, or if that's the way he always parked.

It might indicate a rushed park job, or another car in the driveway around the time of the crime. Very interesting I just dont know what to make of it.

If the aunt comes in the mornings to get Jayme off to school, they might leave room for her to park close to the house?

 

[Cardinal47]

Tomorrow is the funeral for Mr. and Mrs. Closs. RIP and maybe they will help LE find Jayme.

 

[SeekingJana]

That is quick, but why bother taking off the tracks?

If you want to remove something large, you'd take the door or doors off the tracks, like a sectional sofa or a grand piano.. . Otherwise, just open them.
Sometimes, they do come off the little tracks when moving the one door to unlatch them, in my limited and stupid experiences.

 

[chi123]

Criticizing LE and saying "they don't know anything" are two very different things.

If you assume that people are being critical of LE when they say that you'd be wrong most of the time.

In this case, I don't think LE has anything real solid as far as a suspect or motive, but I also don't think they are doing anything wrong. LE certainly appears to be working hard, they just haven't caught a break yet. Some cases are tough.

When someone says something like "I don't think they have much" or something along those lines, what they are saying is "this one might take a while." It's only negative if you take it that way.

Well said. And even Mollies case specifically LE admitted they didn't have anything until they finally got the video. That certainly doesn't mean they did a bad job, but if there's no evidence then there's no evidence.

It's also much more comforting to think LE has all the answers so I certainly understand why people feel that way, but the reality is it's really hard to solve a murder. Especially a case like this or Mollies. Without that random video showing the perps car we would still be at square 1 in that case. Im praying LE will get a break like that here.

Not having leads or evidence is absolutely not an indictment against LE.

 

[cluciano63]

I know I am cynical...but years of waiting for arrests for Kyron, Haleigh, the baby girl in Maine, Jennifer K. and too many others have jaded me. I have no doubt that LE is doing everything possible. Sadly it is not always enough to bring anyone to justice. But this case is still very new. Maybe someone will come forward. I hope LE keeps asking, reminding people of the things to look for and think about, etc...jmo.

 

[BIC]

If you want to remove something large, you'd take the door or doors off the tracks, like a sectional sofa or a grand piano.. . Otherwise, just open them.
Sometimes, they do come off the little tracks when moving the one door to unlatch them, in my limited and stupid experiences.

That’s some serious burglarizing. Lol.

 

[Cardinal47]

I think that car looks like a Monte Carlo. I drove a thunderbird at one point, which had a similar body shape. I googled “1994 Monte Carlo red” and found many pictures that look like that car. ( though not 94 models, as I was thinking).

Chevrolet Monte Carlo | Pricing, Ratings, Reviews | Kelley Blue Book
Edited to add link and be more clear.

Could bad video make one seem like the other? The one LE is looking for and this one? TIA

 

[Cj707]

If the aunt comes in the mornings to get Jayme off to school, they might leave room for her to park close to the house?

Didnt she normally take the bus? I think I recall that being the case. But your theory about it might be a possibility.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Everyone has their own way of looking at cases which is one of the reasons WS posters differing points of view is so interesting.

But for me I tend to take a more simplistic approach.

I dont try to rearrange the known timeline to make things fit.

I dont discount such things as the police in this case may really not know what the vehicles are.

I believe they absolutely do and that is why they have published the stock photos of the 2 vehicles of interest.

There are many ways they know what the vehicles are from shape of taillights...headlights and windows and much more.

So I take things at face value based on what is known at the time and then apply what is more logical...to me anyway.

Since I have been following cases for so long now one of the things I have learned is most cases aren't nearly as complex as some may think or make them out to be. Usually what's the easiest route to any conclusion turns out to be correct imo.

So if I take everything that is known at this time without rearranging or omitting any of it this is still my conclusion at this time. It is subject to change if new info is released.

First I do not know the motive or who the suspect could be. None of those facts have been presented yet.

However based on what I do know I think it shows James was murdered immediately when he came to his door eliminating his biggest threat.

Imo those are the 2 shots heard by the neighbors from the outside being fired into the entrance of their home where James was located and where it all began.

Since I do believe the neighbors timeline then the suspect entered the home in order to murder Denise but there had to be more happening during that 20 minutes before the 911 call was made. The only thing that makes sense to me is the suspect first had to get full control over Denise and Jayme. He may have one tie the other one up and then either tied up Jayme or threatened to shoot her if she moved an inch.

I do not think the timeline supports Denise was shot right away. I do think the wooden chair was involved in some manner even may have been used to restrain Denise.

I also believe it is a good possibilty before Denise was murdered the killer may have had some type of heated conversation before shooting Denise. Of course I do not know what was said by the killer during this time window. But just speculating it easily could have been Denise pleading for them to not harm Jayme or it could be demanding to know where any valuables were inside of the home or other things unknown at this time.

But based on the timeline I do believe some kind of conversation was ensuing for a few minutes.

Since I have not heard anyone from LE who stated Denise was found inside one of their bathrooms I do not include that and consider it irrelevant for now just like I have never seen it verified the weapon was a shotgun either.

I dont believe Denise made the 911 call. I believe at the time both parents would have been dead or Denise was dying unable to speak and instead it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone as the killer was with Denise and distracted for a short time.

However the suspect realized the 911 call had been made throwing a kink into his plan.

Imo he would know it would only take a few minutes for police to arrive. He knew he had to leave immediately taking Jayme with him. Maybe he put her in his trunk.

Since it has been almost two weeks with no sighting of Jayme I think she has most likely been murdered by now.

In Elizabeth Smart's case no one was murdered inside their home when she was taken.

Heartbreakingly it did happen to little Jaymes parents before she was taken so it's an entirely different set of horrific circumstances for her.

Imo and nothing more..

 

[Mercedes]

It’s certainly possible that there were bloody footprints, but there’s no guarantee of that.

It depends on the location of the victim, the amount of blood that is shed, and the viability of a perpetrator being able to avoid the blood.

But footprints also don’t have to be made in blood.

I think it’s more probable than not, that LE does have something to work with in that regard.

The problem is the fact that footprints don’t tell you who a killer is. They can rule people in or out, and help make a case when a perpetrator is caught, but unless they are really unique, they probably won’t catch him/them.

If the shoe fits, .....

 

[Oakland CA]

Tomorrow is the funeral for Mr. and Mrs. Closs. RIP and maybe they will help LE find Jayme.

Sincere condolences going out to the family on this terrible loss.

Thoughts and Prayers going out to Jayme and her safe return

 

[Cj707]

Everyone bihas their own way of looking at cases which is one of the reasons WS posters differing points of view is so interesting.

But for me I tend to take a more simplistic approach.

I dont try to rearrange the known timeline to make things fit.

I dont discount such things as the police in this case may really not know what the vehicles are.

I believe they absolutely do and that is why they have published the stock photos of the 2 vehicles of interest.

There are many ways they know what the vehicles are from shape of taillights...headlights and windows and much more.

So I take things at face value based on what is known at the time and then apply what is more logical...to me anyway.

Since I have been following cases for so long now one of the things I have learned is most cases aren't nearly as complex as some may think or make them out to be. Usually what's the easiest route to any conclusion turns out to be correct imo.

So if I take everything that is known at this time without rearranging or omitting any of it this is still my conclusion at this time. It is subject to change if new info is released.

First I do not know the motive or who the suspect could be. None of those facts have been presented yet.

However based on what I do know I think it shows James was murdered immeduately when he came to his door.

Imo those are the 2 shots heard by the neighbors from the outside being fired into the entrance of their home where James was located and where it all began.

Since I do believe the neighbors timeline then the suspect entered the home in order to murder Denise but there had to be more happening during that 20 minutes before the 911 call was made. The only thing that makes sense to me is the suspect first had to get full control over Denise and Jayme. He may have one tie the other one up and then either tied up Jayme or threatened to shoot her if she moved an inch.

I do not think the timeline supports Denise was shot right away. I do think the wooden chair was involved in some manner even may have been used to restrain Denise.

I also believe it is a good possibilty before Denise was murdered the killer may have had some type of heated conversation before shooting Denise. Of course I do not know what was said by the killer during this time window. But just speculating it easily could have been Denise pleading for them to not harm Jayme or it could be demanding to know where any valuables were inside of the home or other things unknown at this time.

But based on the timeline I do believe some kind of conversation was ensuing for a few minutes.

Since I have not heard anyone from LE who stated Denise was found inside one of their bathrooms I do not include that and consider it irrelevant for now just like I have never seen it verified the weapon was a shotgun either.

I dont believe Denise made the 911 call. I believe at the time both parents would have been dead or Denise was dying unable to speak and instead it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone as the killer was with Denise and distracted for a short time.

However the suspect realized the 911 call had been made throwing a kink into his plan.

Imo he would know it would only take a few minutes for police to arrive. He knew he had to leave immediately taking Jayme with him. Maybe he put her in his trunk.

Since it has been almost two weeks with no sighting of Jayme I think she has most likely been murdered by now.

In Elizabeth Smart's case no one was murdered inside their home when she was taken.

Heartbreakingly it did happen to little Jaymes parents before she was taken so it's an entirely different set of horrific circumstances for her.

Imo and nothing more..

Just horrifying to think about.

 

[MassGuy]

Everyone bihas their own way of looking at cases which is one of the reasons WS posters differing points of view is so interesting.

But for me I tend to take a more simplistic approach.

I dont try to rearrange the known timeline to make things fit.

I dont discount such things as the police in this case may really not know what the vehicles are.

I believe they absolutely do and that is why they have published the stock photos of the 2 vehicles of interest.

There are many ways they know what the vehicles are from shape of taillights...headlights and windows and much more.

So I take things at face value based on what is known at the time and then apply what is more logical...to me anyway.

Since I have been following cases for so long now one of the things I have learned is most cases aren't nearly as complex as some may think or make them out to be. Usually what's the easiest route to any conclusion turns out to be correct imo.

So if I take everything that is known at this time without rearranging or omitting any of it this is still my conclusion at this time. It is subject to change if new info is released.

First I do not know the motive or who the suspect could be. None of those facts have been presented yet.

However based on what I do know I think it shows James was murdered immeduately when he came to his door.

Imo those are the 2 shots heard by the neighbors from the outside being fired into the entrance of their home where James was located and where it all began.

Since I do believe the neighbors timeline then the suspect entered the home in order to murder Denise but there had to be more happening during that 20 minutes before the 911 call was made. The only thing that makes sense to me is the suspect first had to get full control over Denise and Jayme. He may have one tie the other one up and then either tied up Jayme or threatened to shoot her if she moved an inch.

I do not think the timeline supports Denise was shot right away. I do think the wooden chair was involved in some manner even may have been used to restrain Denise.

I also believe it is a good possibilty before Denise was murdered the killer may have had some type of heated conversation before shooting Denise. Of course I do not know what was said by the killer during this time window. But just speculating it easily could have been Denise pleading for them to not harm Jayme or it could be demanding to know where any valuables were inside of the home or other things unknown at this time.

But based on the timeline I do believe some kind of conversation was ensuing for a few minutes.

Since I have not heard anyone from LE who stated Denise was found inside one of their bathrooms I do not include that and consider it irrelevant for now just like I have never seen it verified the weapon was a shotgun either.

I dont believe Denise made the 911 call. I believe at the time both parents would have been dead or Denise was dying unable to speak and instead it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone as the killer was with Denise and distracted for a short time.

However the suspect realized the 911 call had been made throwing a kink into his plan.

Imo he would know it would only take a few minutes for police to arrive. He knew he had to leave immediately taking Jayme with him. Maybe he put her in his trunk.

Since it has been almost two weeks with no sighting of Jayme I think she has most likely been murdered by now.

In Elizabeth Smart's case no one was murdered inside their home when she was taken.

Heartbreakingly it did happen to little Jaymes parents before she was taken so it's an entirely different set of horrific circumstances for her.

Imo and nothing more..

I mostly agree with your theories here and I completely agree with your method.

Keep it simple, and follow the facts. Even if they are in short supply.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The reality that something like this can happen in a small town America is mind blowing to me. The longer this goes on without finding Jayme the more terrifying it is.
jmo

 

[ReckoningDay]

Everyone bihas their own way of looking at cases which is one of the reasons WS posters differing points of view is so interesting.

But for me I tend to take a more simplistic approach.

I dont try to rearrange the known timeline to make things fit.

I dont discount such things as the police in this case may really not know what the vehicles are.

I believe they absolutely do and that is why they have published the stock photos of the 2 vehicles of interest.

There are many ways they know what the vehicles are from shape of taillights...headlights and windows and much more.

So I take things at face value based on what is known at the time and then apply what is more logical...to me anyway.

Since I have been following cases for so long now one of the things I have learned is most cases aren't nearly as complex as some may think or make them out to be. Usually what's the easiest route to any conclusion turns out to be correct imo.

So if I take everything that is known at this time without rearranging or omitting any of it this is still my conclusion at this time. It is subject to change if new info is released.

First I do not know the motive or who the suspect could be. None of those facts have been presented yet.

However based on what I do know I think it shows James was murdered immeduately when he came to his door.

Imo those are the 2 shots heard by the neighbors from the outside being fired into the entrance of their home where James was located and where it all began.

Since I do believe the neighbors timeline then the suspect entered the home in order to murder Denise but there had to be more happening during that 20 minutes before the 911 call was made. The only thing that makes sense to me is the suspect first had to get full control over Denise and Jayme. He may have one tie the other one up and then either tied up Jayme or threatened to shoot her if she moved an inch.

I do not think the timeline supports Denise was shot right away. I do think the wooden chair was involved in some manner even may have been used to restrain Denise.

I also believe it is a good possibilty before Denise was murdered the killer may have had some type of heated conversation before shooting Denise. Of course I do not know what was said by the killer during this time window. But just speculating it easily could have been Denise pleading for them to not harm Jayme or it could be demanding to know where any valuables were inside of the home or other things unknown at this time.

But based on the timeline I do believe some kind of conversation was ensuing for a few minutes.

Since I have not heard anyone from LE who stated Denise was found inside one of their bathrooms I do not include that and consider it irrelevant for now just like I have never seen it verified the weapon was a shotgun either.

I dont believe Denise made the 911 call. I believe at the time both parents would have been dead or Denise was dying unable to speak and instead it was most likely Jayme who somehow was able to get her mom's phone as the killer was with Denise and distracted for a short time.

However the suspect realized the 911 call had been made throwing a kink into his plan.

Imo he would know it would only take a few minutes for police to arrive. He knew he had to leave immediately taking Jayme with him. Maybe he put her in his trunk.

Since it has been almost two weeks with no sighting of Jayme I think she has most likely been murdered by now.

In Elizabeth Smart's case no one was murdered inside their home when she was taken.

Heartbreakingly it did happen to little Jaymes parents before she was taken so it's an entirely different set of horrific circumstances for her.

Imo and nothing more..

Sadly, I agree with most of what you wrote.

 

[ThaiBali]

Yes but they won't indict now without a lot more than they used to have to have.

For example, in the 60's, the clearance rate was about 90%. And that was without DNA and a lot of other technology we have today.

Or maybe that's because of that lack.

Then came CSI. And everyone thinks they're a detective and that crimes must be solved in a week or there's no evidence.

Today people don't understand circumstantial evidence.

Of course back then they probably routinely beat the hell out of suspects and got a lot of confessions that way as well!!

And they didn't have websleuths to fall back on.Lol

 

[Cardinal47]

The reality that something like this can happen in a small town America is mind blowing to me. The longer this goes on without finding Jayme the more terrifying it is.
jmo

Murder Comes To Town is stories like this and just for the record it's usually somebody they know or have connections too.

 

[SeekingJana]

That’s some serious burglarizing. Lol.

LOL, nope, it actually related to moving furniture out when the house's doors weren't wide enough for the movers plus the furniture. I won't be mentioning this again. Thanks.