SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

[Brubeck]

What if the murderers wanted to make a statement? What if they wanted it to be known the sisters were killed?

Have they yet? (Listening.)

 

[Brubeck]

How do you know they 'wanted' to drown? Is there any evidence for that?

At least with the socio-cultural speculation, there is a vast history of similar deaths to compare these to.

Please share links for this "vast history of similar" duct tape-drowning-of-sisters-from-Saudi deaths.

 

[TTF14]

Have they yet? (Listening.)

''

I doubt the message was for "us."

Why are you so adamant this was not a homicide?

 

[bears10]

If it is true that the mom got a call from the SA embassy to inform her of the girls' applications for asylum, I have to wonder how the SA embassy obtained this information.

ETA - on page 6 of the below link, it clearly says that asylum info cannot be shared with foreign govts or international organizations without the written consent of the applicant or at the discretion of Homeland Security.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default...mber 2012/Asylum-ConfidentialityFactSheet.pdf

 

[Brubeck]

''

I doubt the message was for "us."

Why are you so adamant this was not a homicide?

Because the unusual mode of death is one more psychologically related to siblings than to murderers.

 

[DexterMorgan]

<modsnip - not victim friendly >

So was their family that tied to the religious community in Va?

 

[K_Z]

Interesting twist, published today-- the story continues to morph and change.....

Meanwhile, both the NYPD and an official at the Saudi Embassy in Washington DC refuted an Associated Press (AP) claim the mother of the two sisters had said that she received a call from the Saudi Embassy requesting the family to leave the US because the daughters had requested asylum.

AP had previously reported that “The mother told detectives the day before the bodies were discovered, she received a call from an official at the Saudi Arabian Embassy, ordering the family to leave the US because her daughters had applied for political asylum, New York police said Tuesday.”

However, when Arab News contacted the NYPD DCPI to confirm AP’s story, the officer handling the case denied releasing any information regarding an alleged asylum claim.

Furthermore, a Saudi official at the kingdom’s embassy in Washington DC categorically denied to Arab News that the embassy had made any calls to the mother with regards to her alleged daughters’ political asylum claim.

NYPD Denies Releasing Information On Slain Saudi Sisters Seeking Asylum In US

Questions I have (that I don’t actually expect to ever be answered publicly):

1. Where are the sisters’ passports? Where were the passports when the sisters were in NYC? Where is the mother's passport, and the little brother's passport? It is highly unlikely that Saudi women would be allowed to retain their own passports. Does the father have the passports? What identification did the girls have, other than a passport? Did they have state ID's? Unlikely, but did either of them have a U.S. driver's license?

2. Under what status/ visa did each of the girls enter the U.S. in 2015? Has that status changed since 2015? Did they enter on student visas? Or was only Rotana on a student visa? (If so, it is legally important that they remain enrolled in school.) Or another status? Does the father have legal residency? Did they apply for asylum because there was a problem with their status, as in, a problem with a student visa?

3. When did they file the formal request for asylum? Date? And Location? Did they actually request asylum at all? *See above article.

4. What does the father do for a living in KSA? What does his job entail? Why does he travel so much? What connections does his business have to the royal family? How often does he come to the U.S.? Does he actually have residency status in the U.S. or does he come on a tourist visa?

5. Where was Tala enrolled in high school? She was 13 in 2015 when arrived here, and reportedly had a full year scholarship previously to an elite girls school in Jeddah. Did she continue any high school education while in NYC? She was involved with social services, if she was in a shelter situation, as reported.

6. Where was the little brother enrolled in school—he was 11 in 2015 when they entered the U.S. Where is he in school now? Is he still in the U.S.?

7. What masjid did the family attend in the Alexandria/ Fairfax county area? Were they friendly with other KSA ex-pat families in the area? This area has a very large muslim population. I travel to the Fairfax county/ Alexandria/ D.C. area 4-6 times a year, and often see women shopping or out and about who are in “full” cover—including gloves and niqab (face veil). Did the family affiliate regularly with these more conservative ex-pats?

8. Did the girls cover (traditional Saudi black abaya and scarf) while in Fairfax/ Alexandria/ D.C. area, but stopped covering when they went to NYC? (Bodies were found wearing black leggings and fall/ winter jackets.)

9. Is there evidence at autopsy that the girls were victims of FGM? Some estimates are that 1/3 to 1/2 the teen and adult women in KSA are estimated to have been subjected to this, though it is more common in the south of KSA among immigrants. If the girls had this done to them as children, it would indicate a family that is more conservative, and less tolerant—providing more substantiation for cultural murder. Was this family multigenerational Saudi, or immigrant? This is important to understanding their place in Saudi society.

10. Have their bodies been claimed? Buried according to Islamic traditions?

 

[Inthedetails]

If it is true that the mom got a call from the SA embassy to inform her of the girls' applications for asylum, I have to wonder how the SA embassy obtained this information.

ETA - on page 6 of the below link, it clearly says that asylum info cannot be shared with foreign govts or international organizations without the written consent of the applicant or at the discretion of Homeland Security.

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Outreach/Notes from Previous Engagements/2012/December 2012/Asylum-ConfidentialityFactSheet.pdf

It's just a hunch, but I think the mom might not have the right information. Was she the person who took the call, or was that information told to her by someone else? Something is off about her statement that they were asked to leave USA because the sisters sought asylum. I don't know how the process actually works, but I don't think family members are ordered to leave when other family members seek asylum.

So the question is, is the mom misunderstanding the situation, or did someone purposely mislead her?

jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

Wouldn't the 16 year old need moms or dads signature to apply for Asylum? What if documents were forged by the sisters and mom and dad started getting questioned and in trouble?

That can be a possible reason for an honour killing.

 

[otto]

Please share links for this "vast history of similar" duct tape-drowning-of-sisters-from-Saudi deaths.

My understanding was that there was a "vast history of similar" honor killings in Western countries.

 

[K_Z]

I also wanted to make the observation that it is rather unusual that the mother filed the missing person's report. Several articles say she hasn't seen the girls since Dec 2017, but that they were seen in Alexandria in August 2018. And that since Tala was safe with an adult relative (Rotana) they were in a shelter, and she was removed from the missing list.

The interesting thing to me is that the mother had no fear of Saudi authorities, *or her husband*, at the point that she filed several missing/ runaway teen reports.

It is even MORE interesting to me that the mother appears to have filed these reports, apart from her husband (who seems to be frequently travelling and working, and unavailable to help with such things.) The younger girl was presumably missing for MONTHS.

Was the mother trying to use U.S. resources to find and handle her wayward daughters without arousing suspicions of her husband or Saudi authorities? Was the mother trying to "help" her daughters by not aggressively looking for them, to provide them cover? The shelter location was not disclosed to her. Why did the mother call off the search? Was she prevented from contact with Tala by any court actions?

Remember-- this is not a western couple-- this is a Saudi couple. Our norms for women's role and behavior are not the same as Saudi norms for their citizens.

Did the girls have cell phones? Who paid for the cell phones? Unlikely that they had their own bank accounts, even if the family had money. How did they get pocket money? Were they in contact with their mother over the months they were in NYC? Who else were they in contact with?

Their mom also told detectives that she hadn’t seen her daughters since December 2017, when she reported them missing to cops in Fairfax, sources said.

Virginia police found them soon after, but rather than return home they went to live in a local shelter, with cops refusing to disclose its location to her, according to sources.

The nature of the shelter or the reason for their stay wasn’t immediately clear.

Tala was reported missing again by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in August, but the English-language ArabNews.com, citing unnamed family members, reported that the mother called off the search when it was discovered the teen was visiting her older sister at an unspecified college in New York.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/30/sisters-found-dead-duct-taped-together-had-applied-for-asylum/

 

[DexterMorgan]

It's just a hunch, but I think the mom might not have the right information. Was she the person who took the call, or was that information told to her by someone else? Something is off about her statement that they were asked to leave USA because the sisters sought asylum. I don't know how the process actually works, but I don't think family members are ordered to leave when other family members seek asylum.

So the question is, is the mom misunderstanding the situation, or did someone purposely mislead her?

jmo

I think if dad works out of the Kingdom but his wife and daughters are in the U.S then it could be seen as either fraud or something and everyone must return.

But I actually don't know. Now moms said she was in regular phone contact with the girls. <modsnip - not victim friendly>. But I really don't know that either.

We definitely have a strange case on our hands at the moment.

 

[katydid23]

My understanding was that there was a "vast history of similar" honor killings in Western countries.

Amina and Sarah Said

At 7:33 pm CT a call came into the Irving Police Department's 911 call center. The call was from Sarah Said. She had been shot nine times and told the operator, "My dad shot me and my sister. I'm dying!" Their mother, Patricia Said, claims that both girls were killed for having non-Muslim boyfriends. Death threats had been made by Yaser against the girls. They ran away and were safe, but their mother brought them back. Yaser Said is still at large, as an FBI Top Ten Fugitive, at the present time the FBI is offering a $100,000[5] reward for information leading to his arrest.[6][7] Said has been featured on America's Most Wanted as well as on a Fox News special about honor killings in America;[8]


Noor Almaleki[edit]
Faleh Hassan Almaleki, an Iraqi immigrant, used his vehicle to strike and kill his daughter Noor Almaleki (aged 20) in a Phoenix valley parking lot in October 2009; he also severely injured her boyfriend's mother, Amal Khalaf. Police said Almaleki told detectives and witnesses after the October 2009 incident that he was angry at his daughter because she was "too Westernized," defying Iraqi and Muslim values. Noor had shunned an arranged marriage to a first cousin in Iraq, and was living with her boyfriend and his mother, police said. Earlier, she had insisted on driving and crashed the family van. County prosecutor Laura Reckart said an enraged Almaleki hid in the parking lot waiting for her and her boyfriend's mother and then "revved and raced that car right into them." Following his daughter's death, Almaleki fled to Mexico and later to London, where he was taken into custody upon his arrival.[11]

Gelareh Bagherzadeh and Coty Beavers[edit]
Main article: Ali Irsan
Ali Mahmood Awad Irsan was sentenced to death in Texas court on August 14, 2018 for the murders of Gelareh Bagherzadeh and Coty Beavers in Greater Houston.[13] The former encouraged his daughter Nesreen Irsan Beavers to leave Islam and to convert to Christianity, while the latter, also a Christian,[14] was Nesreen's husband.[15]

 

[TTF14]

Because the unusual mode of death is one more psychologically related to siblings than to murderers.

Well, there are other siblings.....right?

 

[Inthedetails]

I think if dad works out of the Kingdom but his wife and daughters are in the U.S then it could be seen as either fraud or something and everyone must return.

But I actually don't know. Now moms said she was in regular phone contact with the girls. <modsnip - not victim friendly>. But I really don't know that either.

We definitely have a strange case on our hands at the moment.

That could be, I suppose. But I'm wondering if someone told the mom a false story - a story that gave her the impression that the family was at risk because of the actions of the two sisters. In other words, the family would be safer without the sisters.

Total hunch, speculation, brainstorming, not fact.

jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

That could be, I suppose. But I'm wondering if someone told the mom a false story - a story that gave her the impression that the family was at risk because of the actions of the two sisters. In other words, the family would be safer without the sisters.

Total hunch, speculation, brainstorming, not fact.

jmo

And thats what shocking since we would think the older sister would have been beaten since she would be the obvious ringleader that lead her teen sister astray.

They allowed the older sister to leave and do whatever. But then baby sister joins her. Now Saudi authorities want answers for the asylum request.

Then everyone blames the eldest daughter. But she wasn't beaten or nothing? Idk

 

[Inthedetails]

If it was a suicide, then the duct tape roll, and the scissors to cut them, should be found on the shore, or the tape roll should have still been attached to them. But I'm assuming they were duct taped together in another location and brought to the water and dropped in, which is why I don't buy the suicide theory.

The duct tape and scissors could easily be tossed in the river so a lack of those items doesn't give me a clue about whether this was suicide or murder.

Whether it was suicide or not, I think they were bound together onsite and either leaned into the river to fall in (suicide) or were pushed (murder). I'm still thinking the pier in the 130s makes sense. It's accessible, nobody would notice much at night (assuming this was done at night), and it's within a couple of miles of where the bodies were found.

I was going along with the suicide theory, but now I'm completely on the fence.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

And thats what shocking since we would think the older sister would have been beaten since she would be the obvious ringleader that lead her teen sister astray.

They allowed the older sister to leave and do whatever. But then baby sister joins her. Now Saudi authorities want answers for the asylum request.

Then everyone blames the eldest daughter. But she wasn't beaten or nothing? Idk

They could've been tricked in some way and didn't require a beating to tape them.

Speculation only.

jmo

 

[K_Z]

Well, there are other siblings.....right?

There is a brother referred to in some articles who was listed as age 18 in 2015 who did not travel to the U.S. with the mom, 2 sisters and their then 11 yo brother.

In 2015 the kids were age 11 (brother), 13 (Tala), 18 (brother who didn't travel to the U.S.) and Rotana, who would have been 19 in 2015.

 

[bears10]

It's just a hunch, but I think the mom might not have the right information. Was she the person who took the call, or was that information told to her by someone else? Something is off about her statement that they were asked to leave USA because the sisters sought asylum. I don't know how the process actually works, but I don't think family members are ordered to leave when other family members seek asylum.

So the question is, is the mom misunderstanding the situation, or did someone purposely mislead her?

jmo

I think her statement was that the family was *ordered* By the Saudi govt to return home, not asked to return home. I wouldn’t be surprised if two daughters filing for asylum would be looked at as betrayal to the Saudi govt and the rest of the family would be “punished” for it. JMO