SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

Perhaps the mom wasn't on the account, but rather someone else. Would running up the credit card like that make someone very angry?

Do you, or anyone else, know if LE needs a production order or search warrant to examine financial records of someone who is deceased? Is there a way to find out what search warrants have been granted?

The MSM article you quoted above mentioned that the cc belonged to Rotana. But, I doubt that is the complete story on the credit card.

Police Say Saudi Sisters Found Duct Taped in the Hudson River Would "Rather Commit Suicide than Return to Saudi Arabia"

I do not know, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked the questions I previously asked.
 
I don't think this is over yet. ME report isn't finalized. No final report from NYPD.
I agree. I'm not a fan of where this investigation is trying to go, because the science doesn't support how they could have drowned and floated within several hours of 'being seen' praying. That usually takes a number of days. No evidence of where they went in, no duct tape roll, no scissors, no other effects they probably left behind if they 'just walked in'.
 
And perhaps they have found such evidence but just didn’t state it publicly.
I think they would have mentioned it by now if they haven't had any problem with sharing alleged eyewitness reports to them being seen, or their comments about wanting to die rather than go back to saudi arabia.
 
I agree. I'm not a fan of where this investigation is trying to go, because the science doesn't support how they could have drowned and floated within several hours of 'being seen' praying. That usually takes a number of days. No evidence of where they went in, no duct tape roll, no scissors, no other effects they probably left behind if they 'just walked in'.

Other than the eye witness at the park, we don't know if they were seen anywhere within 5-6 days of when they were found dead. Chief Shea's comment makes me wonder if perhaps no one saw them in the days leading to the discovery of their bodies.
 
Other than the eye witness at the park, we don't know if they were seen anywhere within 5-6 days of when they were found dead. Chief Shea's comment makes me wonder if perhaps no one saw them in the days leading to the discovery of their bodies.
But I recall NYPD statement about seeing the sisters on CCTV. My suspicion is that NYPD is continuing to look for CCTV in the area where they last believe the sisters to have been staying and we just haven't heard about this aspect of the investigation yet. The last PC made it appear that there were still areas of inquiry in process.
 
Other than the eye witness at the park, we don't know if they were seen anywhere within 5-6 days of when they were found dead. Chief Shea's comment makes me wonder if perhaps no one saw them in the days leading to the discovery of their bodies.

The eye witness certainly could have seen someone else, especially since they were 30 feet apart.
 
Yes, and first prayer was at 6:31 that day. Second prayer always coincides with sunrise. So the ambient light levels would have been rather low at the time the witness says he thinks he saw them praying. (How far away was he?)

NYC weather on 24 Oct was partly sunny, upper 40s to low 50s. No rain.
The area near the playground is fairly well lit (trail lights and park) lights, especially as combined with ambient sunrise light. This is the time of day that I drive to work and not far from where I travel. While the lighting is not like broad day light, one can see colors and shadings from along that path. People would not run or exercise around there in such large numbers if there was not additional lighting. Don't get me wrong some robberies and assaults happen at night in the dark---not a great place in the dark. Even the pathways to the park have lighting.
 
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I think they would have mentioned it by now if they haven't had any problem with sharing alleged eyewitness reports to them being seen, or their comments about wanting to die rather than go back to saudi arabia.
They did not share "eyewitness reports" by any means. They mentioned them. NYPD is pretty tightlipped about evidence or witness statements. On the whole, the public finds out about information very near the close of an investigation or when documents are released in courts.

Look at Joseph Cominale or Lisa Velasquez, the dismembered woman in the Bronx or Lesandro Guzman-Feliz,the young man macheted in the Bronx. The police gave out little on these cases and, then, arrests were made, and, then, surprise, there were more arrests made. The amount of information on Mr. Cominale's death was not fully made public until the trial. It is only when we see court filings that we get a sense on what they were holding back. It is common practice in NY that bodies are not moved from a scene until the scene is cleared by the ME, which may account for the women being separated and photographed. There is a lot to be desired when it comes to NYC on any given day but the investigations of murders are generally where the NYPD tends to shine. In the case of these young women, NYPD sent people to VA to ask questions--- a phone call might have done for some departments. NYPD has many high profile targets and high risk situations that they deal with. I can't imagine they are being buffaloed into a suicide determination when there is a murder. They would absolutely want the credit for id'ing a murder if there was one. The ME is not one to let things go either-- that office has been sifting and resifting and running DNA to identify minute samples in order to id anyone else they can from the Sept. 11 attacks. This not a small operation or departments with no cash. If this was a murder I believe they will find the truth.
 
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I've seen muslim women praying at a rest area in front of McDonalds!

I was going to ask you about the 30 feet apart thing. Seemed weird to me, but I know very little about the faith.


Iam wondering if the 30 feet apart thing might be some typo along the way that has just been copied over and over . And it s the person was about 30 ft apart /away from them when he saw them. That sounds more logical to me.
 
Iam wondering if the 30 feet apart thing might be some typo along the way that has just been copied over and over . And it s the person was about 30 ft apart /away from them when he saw them. That sounds more logical to me.

I agree with you on the distance. If you are on the path in relation to the playground, I could imagine that the 30 feet thing would make sense.
 
bbm
Yes, disappointing, isn't it? In some counties/states of the US, and I guess depending on the circumstances of the scene or other things, the M.E. will go to the scene and tell LE what s/he wants done with the body/bodies -- transport as is, or transport as you see fit -- plenty of pictures of the scene help show how the body/bodies was/were found. If the ME can't/doesn't come, the bodies must (I would assume) be brought in situ and much as possible. So let's hope the ME knows all about it or was at the scene -- I can't remember if the ME was there or not.

Here in San Diego, the body ‘belongs’ to the ME. So either the ME or one of the ME’s investigators has control. Legally we aren’t allowed to touch, move it, nothing. If we need to photograph the other side of the body, we wait until the ME arrives and can do their initial investigations before it’s moved. After the body is removed we take a picture of the floor/ground under the body to show whether anything was present or not.
 
Time to unsubscribe... I personally feel these girls took their own lives because the thought of living in SA was worse than the ultimate outcome. How sad. RIP


Totally agree.

During their two-month stint in New York City, the two sisters stayed at pricey Midtown hotels — the Hilton, the Hyatt, the Knickerbocker — ordered room service twice a day and maxed out their credit cards shopping.

Saudi Sisters, Fleeing Abuse and Seeking Asylum, May Have Committed Suicide, Police Say

“It is entirely credible that the girls entered the water alive,” Chief Shea said. “We have them praying a short distance from the water, we also have sources that detectives have developed thus far, statements that they would rather inflict harm on themselves, commit suicide, than return to Saudi Arabia.”
 
Here in San Diego, the body ‘belongs’ to the ME. So either the ME or one of the ME’s investigators has control. Legally we aren’t allowed to touch, move it, nothing. If we need to photograph the other side of the body, we wait until the ME arrives and can do their initial investigations before it’s moved. After the body is removed we take a picture of the floor/ground under the body to show whether anything was present or not.
There was a woman dressed in white, who I'm guessing was from the ME's office. It looks like the bodies were moved before 5pm according to the timestamp of the news report in the second link below. And another news report at 4:10pm said they were still waiting for the medical examiner's office.
I guess the ME only needed an hour to do a thorough investigation of the scene before they separated and moved the bodies?
 
Totally agree.

During their two-month stint in New York City, the two sisters stayed at pricey Midtown hotels — the Hilton, the Hyatt, the Knickerbocker — ordered room service twice a day and maxed out their credit cards shopping.

Saudi Sisters, Fleeing Abuse and Seeking Asylum, May Have Committed Suicide, Police Say

“It is entirely credible that the girls entered the water alive,” Chief Shea said. “We have them praying a short distance from the water, we also have sources that detectives have developed thus far, statements that they would rather inflict harm on themselves, commit suicide, than return to Saudi Arabia.”

They were fully clothed, one was wearing a bomber jacket with a fur trimmed hoodie, the other a grey down jacket with a hood. They could not have floated in the water the same day they drowned. The weight of the water in their clothing would have sunk them. Unless they were wearing pfds, they wouldn't have started floating for at least a few days after death, when bacterial decomposition would have built up enough gases in their bodies.
Bodies Of 2 Women Bound With Duct Tape Discovered In Hudson River
"They were found one on top of the other, with the larger of the two on top face-down. Both were wearing black leggings. One was wearing a bomber jacket with a hood, while the other had a gray hooded down jacket."
 
I don't think this is over yet. ME report isn't finalized. No final report from NYPD.
Technically it's not. Realistically it was over when they first found the bodies and the cops made the call.
 
What I find very fascinating about this situation, is the bodies. They were obviously meant to be disposed of permanently, yet they floated back to the surface, even with waterlogged clothing.

Not unlike Laci Peterson, who was found months later, with her baby, no less, after being in a bay filled with all kinds of creatures.

It seems like there is a spirit, or a sign, that dead bodies "want" to be found, for some type of closure. How random was it that Caylee Anthony's body was found, in a ditch, in a garage bag? Sorry if this is off subject, but it is just so interesting to me.
 
They did not share "eyewitness reports" by any means. They mentioned them. NYPD is pretty tightlipped about evidence or witness statements. On the whole, the public finds out about information very near the close of an investigation or when documents are released in courts.

Look at Joseph Cominale or Lisa Velasquez, the dismembered woman in the Bronx or Lesandro Guzman-Feliz,the young man macheted in the Bronx. The police gave out little on these cases and, then, arrests were made, and, then, surprise, there were more arrests made. The amount of information on Mr. Cominale's death was not fully made public until the trial. It is only when we see court filings that we get a sense on what they were holding back. It is common practice in NY that bodies are not moved from a scene until the scene is cleared by the ME, which may account for the women being separated and photographed. There is a lot to be desired when it comes to NYC on any given day but the investigations of murders are generally where the NYPD tends to shine. In the case of these young women, NYPD sent people to VA to ask questions--- a phone call might have done for some departments. NYPD has many high profile targets and high risk situations that they deal with. I can't imagine they are being buffaloed into a suicide determination when there is a murder. They would absolutely want the credit for id'ing a murder if there was one. The ME is not one to let things go either-- that office has been sifting and resifting and running DNA to identify minute samples in order to id anyone else they can from the Sept. 11 attacks. This not a small operation or departments with no cash. If this was a murder I believe they will find the truth.

I hope so. Given the highly unusual fact patterns involved in this case, i am just shocked that the NYPD has been so quick to allude to suicide as the likely cause of deaths.

I have a high regard for the NYPD so this post isn’t meant to knock them, but I also think it’s a bit naive of posters (not insinuating you, Kaen...a couple others a ways back in the thread) who discount (“conspiracy theory”) the fact that there may be some geopolitical factors/pressures at play in a case like this. The 3 issues that I struggle with the most are:

1) Usually, 12 days into an investigation, even when police are being tightlipped, the press has put together a high-level profile of the individuals involved. With this case, there is still almost nothing known about Rotana and Tala - No digital footprint; no friends, classmates, acquaintances who have come out to say they know even the slightest bit about them (e.g. “I took a class with her. She seemed nice but kept to herself.”; etc).

2) I have zero forensic psychology experience, but the profile that we do know - 16/22 (or maybe 23?) year old women > no digital footprint for first 3 years in US > spending spree in NY for 60 days while looking “healthy” > taping themselves together as part of a joint drowning suicide in the Hudson River - just feels like it has disconnects to me.

3) How do 2 people with duct tape wrapped around their ankles and waists physically get themselves into the Hudson River?? Did they roll in from the grass over the rocks along the embankment? Did they tape themselves on the rocks and tip over - would that get you far enough out to catch the current? And as others have mentioned, where is the left over duct tape, scissors, etc?

Additional Questions. . .
**As Sherlock previously asked, who identified the bodies? One article referenced that the Mom did based on the sketch (which, as Sherlock noted, looks nothing like Tala and Rotana’s passport photos). Or did the Dad? The Arab news article references that he arrived in New York on Oct 26th, but they seem to be intentionally vague about the Dad in the press conference.

**There are hundreds of people walking their dogs and going for morning runs along Riverside Park at 7a. Have there been any corroborating reports of people having seen this “haunting” scene of the girls praying? Presumably no witnesses who would have witnessed the far more haunting visual of two girls duct taped together rolling/falling into the Hudson together in broad daylight? Even for desensitized New Yorkers, that scene would be startling.

**The Saudi Consulate references Rotana and Tala as being “students accompanying their brother in Washington DC.” What exactly does that mean, especially in the context of their mom living in Fairfax as well (and their Dad also being referenced in the “alleged” abuse cases that put the girls in “shelter-like” facility, as well as his reportedly traveling back and forth between SA and US at least on occasion)? Who is the brother?

**Exactly when (date/time) and where did Rotana and Tala submit their request for asylum? And what CC/video/etc evidence exists after this event?

**If they spent all 60 nights at hotels in NYC (plus food and shopping), then it’s easily $15k of expenses. As others have asked, if so, who’s the guarantor on the CC? If they didn’t stay at hotels the entire time, where else did they stay? Where did they stay the night of Oct 23rd?

**What is the “shelter-like” facility in which the girls allegedly stayed for the 9 months leading up to their NYC trip and what triggered their decision to leave for NYC (different articles have referenced different reasons for the latter)?
 
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