I hope so. Given the highly unusual fact patterns involved in this case, i am just shocked that the NYPD has been so quick to allude to suicide as the likely cause of deaths.
I have a high regard for the NYPD so this post isn’t meant to knock them, but I also think it’s a bit naive of posters (not insinuating you, Kaen...a couple others a ways back in the thread) who discount (“conspiracy theory”) the fact that there may be some geopolitical factors/pressures at play in a case like this. The 3 issues that I struggle with the most are:
1) Usually, 12 days into an investigation, even when police are being tightlipped, the press has put together a high-level profile of the individuals involved. With this case, there is still almost nothing known about Rotana and Tala - No digital footprint; no friends, classmates, acquaintances who have come out to say they know even the slightest bit about them (e.g. “I took a class with her. She seemed nice but kept to herself.”; etc).
2) I have zero forensic psychology experience, but the profile that we do know - 16/22 (or maybe 23?) year old women > no digital footprint for first 3 years in US > spending spree in NY for 60 days while looking “healthy” > taping themselves together as part of a joint drowning suicide in the Hudson River - just feels like it has disconnects to me.
3) How do 2 people with duct tape wrapped around their ankles and waists physically get themselves into the Hudson River?? Did they roll in from the grass over the rocks along the embankment? Did they tape themselves on the rocks and tip over - would that get you far enough out to catch the current? And as others have mentioned, where is the left over duct tape, scissors, etc?
RSBM. No offense taken at all or thought that you were insinuating anything toward me.
I am usually not a believer in whatever I am told. And, I am not in this case. However, diving into a conspiracy and not trusting the info given to date doesn't make sense to me.
These girls weren't high profile. I can't imagine that the Saudis would be out doing things like Khashoggi on US soil. Is it possible? Yes. Probable? No. IMHO.
So, was this an honor killing? Maybe. But, we are not aware of any evidence that these young women were near anyone, even strangers, in the time they were in NY. We do hear NYPD say that they are still putting the last five or six days together. Could they have met with killers? Totally. Could they have been shamed into killing themselves or guilted into it? Absolutely, we know that abused people can be highly susceptible to influence and harm others or themselves.
Might many here be correct that the girls died days earlier? Yes. We have not seen the autopsy and the estimated time/day of death. The LEO/ME are holding many things close.
Could witnesses have seen others? Yes. Do I think that the NYPD would give us a bit of that info if they were not absolutely sure? No, as it is not what usually happens.
My thinking is to go with what the police are giving us. Ask questions. And, not get so bogged down in conspiracy that we miss the obvious.
As to your questions--- I do think they may have had a footprint but it was probably very well hidden and unless you know them you won't find it. Many people are very careful. They had family watching and, potentially, the government watching.
The older sister was said to have been at George Mason University. Did she make friends outside of the Saudi community? If yes, I think people would be talking (just like the neighbor that the mom talked to). However, women in the Saudi community know that you can't speak up or act out without repercussions, so I would expect that if this woman's contacts/friends were within her community, we won't hear of it. (We know that reporting abuse was handled very quietly-- as it should be.) If you don't make friends in western communities, the idea is that people will hold your secrets and also keep themselves safe from repercussions.
The credit card and spending is very odd, especially since they had been living in a shelter for nine months. That to me is the biggest conundrum. Did they make a deal that they could live in NYC for a period of time and come home? Was it a ruse to have them come home or get them home because everything could be traced--- so dad or brother or someone could show up and force them home? Or, was it a credit card in one of their names and unconnected? We don't know. I think this is what the NYPD is working on still.
The part of the river they were at (if the playground women in prayer were them) is a walk in site with a rocky, sandy shore. It is possible to wrap themselves there with the tape and enter the water? Yes. The roll of tape would sink. ( I never use scissors for duct tape, but that is me.) Did they drown with water in their lungs or the windpipe closing (leaving the lungs not filled with water for a period of time)? We don't know. Were they in the water for hours or days? Maybe they had a floatation device with them and maybe the device separated from them after the died. Maybe they died of hypothermia and not drowning so they didn't sink? I don't know and I am not a forensic scientist. But, somehow the NYPD thinks they died on the day they were found and without evidence to the contrary we can only conjecture.
