WI - Girl, 10, stomped head and killed baby boy in panic, Chippewa Falls, 30 Oct 2018

[bears10]

I present to you a case that I cannot fully discuss due to my profession.
12 year old girl playing with 4 year old girl cousin. 4 year old gets hurt, starts crying to get the 12 year old in trouble. 12 year old freaks and (uses something very common and close by) covers the girls mouth and nose accidentally suffocating her.

1st degree murder?

A doctor who is evaluated the victim said he did not think this was an accident though.

 

[Trident]

This is devastating for everyone involved. However I don't understand why it's so suprising or problematic that a 10 year old would be allowed to pick up a 6 month old. My daycare provider has a 9 year old daughter who adores my kids and has held and carried them since they started daycare. She loves babies and is a wonderful helper to her Mom and I like that my babies get extra attention and snuggles from her. Also my neighbors 8, 10 and 12 year old girls adore my babies and always pick them up and help with them. I think the 10 year old obviously had some serious issues but I don't think the problem is that she was holding the baby in the first place, the problem was her impulse to injure the baby when she dropped it.

I'm the mother of 6 and don't feel any ten-year-old is mature enough to handle an infant without adult supervision. This girl DROPPED the baby. Not casting aspersion or placing blame, simply giving my well-experienced opinion, but I totally agree with you that if the girl's first instinct was to stomp on the child's head, this is more than problematic.

 

[JerseyGirl]

According to the sheriff, the girl said she dropped the infant, hitting his head on a footstool and causing the baby to cry. The girl told investigators that she panicked and stomped on the child's head.

The girl's biological parents were with her in court. Authorities said she had been removed from their home in September and placed in foster care. The reasons for her removal have not been disclosed.

Sheriff: 10-year-old says she stomped head of baby in panic

video here: Police: 10-year-old dropped baby, stomped on child's head :: WRAL.com

 

[bears10]

What a cutie.

Report: 10-Year-Old Charged as Adult in Wisconsin in Connection to Death of Baby

 

[gitana1]

My understanding is that the 10 year old was living in the house and the daycare owner was the foster parent of the 10 year old. And that the daycare owner told the older kids to stay outside so the infant could sleep, but the kids would randomly shuffle in and out (I get it, kids gotta go to the bathroom and stuff). Which leads me to believe the 10 year old actively approached and picked up the sleeping infant. I don’t say this to absolve the daycare owner of any responsibility. I just don’t get the vibe that the daycare owner had the 10 year old look after the baby. I think the 10 year old went into the house on her own accord and what happened next is very, very unfortunate.

You are quite lucky that you are in the position to stay home to raise your kids. Many aren’t as lucky. For all i know, the infant could have been in the daycare before the 10 year old was placed into the foster home. Very sad for the infants parents. Terrible.

In my opinion foster parents should not be licensed to run a daycare. There are various kids with troubled backgrounds, mental health issues, emotional disturbance, through no fault of their own. But they should not have access to small children whose parents are paying for care.

 

[gitana1]

I present to you a case that I cannot fully discuss due to my profession.
12 year old girl playing with 4 year old girl cousin. 4 year old gets hurt, starts crying to get the 12 year old in trouble. 12 year old freaks and (uses something very common and close by) covers the girls mouth and nose accidentally suffocating her.

1st degree murder?

Nah. I would think manslaughter.

 

[gitana1]

This is devastating for everyone involved. However I don't understand why it's so suprising or problematic that a 10 year old would be allowed to pick up a 6 month old. My daycare provider has a 9 year old daughter who adores my kids and has held and carried them since they started daycare. She loves babies and is a wonderful helper to her Mom and I like that my babies get extra attention and snuggles from her. Also my neighbors 8, 10 and 12 year old girls adore my babies and always pick them up and help with them. I think the 10 year old obviously had some serious issues but I don't think the problem is that she was holding the baby in the first place, the problem was her impulse to injure the baby when she dropped it.

For me the issue is she is a 10 year old recently placed foster child. Foster care and professional in-home daycare shouldn't mix, IMO. And they didn't know that little girl. She apparently has suffered from emotional disturbance and the parents has tried to get her help h successfully. And now she's allowed access to vulnerable infants?

When people pay to have a daycare provider watch their infants they pay to have them always watching those babies and/or not allowing anyone or any animal access to babies sleeping in a room alone.

I think it's negligent to allow unsupervised access to an infant by a 10 year old, emotionally disturbed foster kid that you don't know.

 

[MediocreJelly]

we don't know of her background, perhaps we as children knew violence was not a solution to a baby crying/injured but who knew what she has seen or experienced.

Or even perhaps with an issue such as autism the noise was too much?

Whatever the case, I don't feel a 10 year old can be held responsible in this case.

Somebody was responsible for her, and somebody was responsible for the poor infant. Where their needs collided, and resulted in this awful tragedy, somebody adult and responsible made a mistake and IMO they should take the consequences,not the child.

 

[bears10]

we don't know of her background, perhaps we as children knew violence was not a solution to a baby crying/injured but who knew what she has seen or experienced.

Or even perhaps with an issue such as autism the noise was too much?

Whatever the case, I don't feel a 10 year old can be held responsible in this case.

Somebody was responsible for her, and somebody was responsible for the poor infant. Where their needs collided, and resulted in this awful tragedy, somebody adult and responsible made a mistake and IMO they should take the consequences,not the child.

By the age of 10 years old, one knows right from wrong.

I’m not sure how I feel about her being tried as an adult at 10, but I certainly think she may have further potential to be dangerous to others or herself. Yes she is only 10, but stomping on an infants head because you were scared to get in trouble isn’t the same as, say, hiding candy wrappers under your bed because you were scared to get in trouble bc you weren’t allowed to eat said candy.

The doctor saying that this wasn’t an accident is disturbing to me.

All JMO

 

[Sarahlou]

A 10 year old being tried as an adult would be absurd. She may be a very disturbed kid, but I'd need to hear more information about this and her situation to have a proper opinion on how this should be dealt with.

Awful thing to happen though. Poor baby

 

[Andieinsyd]

we don't know of her background, perhaps we as children knew violence was not a solution to a baby crying/injured but who knew what she has seen or experienced.

Or even perhaps with an issue such as autism the noise was too much?

Whatever the case, I don't feel a 10 year old can be held responsible in this case.

Somebody was responsible for her, and somebody was responsible for the poor infant. Where their needs collided, and resulted in this awful tragedy, somebody adult and responsible made a mistake and IMO they should take the consequences,not the child.

I totally agree with you. I hope that the 10 year old was questioned with a responsible adult in attendance.

 

[bears10]

I totally agree with you. I hope that the 10 year old was questioned with a responsible adult in attendance.

Which responsible adult? The parents whose care she was removed from, or her foster parents?

I can’t imagine what the parents of the victim are going through right now. Their baby was murdered.

I’m sorry, but something is not right with the accused and she needs major help. Stomping the head of a baby is unfathomable to me
I don’t doubt the girl has been through some crap in her life, but IMO it doesn’t excuse the fact that she killed an innocent baby (which the doctor said was not an accident). What else may she be capable of in the future if she doesn’t face any repercussions for this?

Where is the justice for the innocent baby who was murdered? My natural instinct wants to place the blame on the parents and whoever else failed this girl in her 10 years on this earth, but STOMPING the head of a baby is just, wow.

 

[Andieinsyd]

Which responsible adult? The parents whose care she was removed from, or her foster parents?

I can’t imagine what the parents of the victim are going through right now. Their baby was murdered.

I’m sorry, but something is not right with the accused and she needs major help. Stomping the head of a baby is unfathomable to me
I don’t doubt the girl has been through some crap in her life, but IMO it doesn’t excuse the fact that she killed an innocent baby (which the doctor said was not an accident). What else may she be capable of in the future if she doesn’t face any repercussions for this?

Where is the justice for the innocent baby who was murdered? My natural instinct wants to place the blame on the parents and whoever else failed this girl in her 10 years on this earth, but STOMPING the head of a baby is just, wow.

By responsible adult I mean someone who can ensure due process is followed correctly, and that the child is not led, coerced etc. I think it would be important that the child feel able to tell the truth and having someone she is comfortable with to reassure her may support this happening.

It's a terrible tragedy for the family who lost their beautiful baby at day care where they thought he would be safe.

 

[bears10]

By responsible adult I mean someone who can ensure due process is followed correctly, and that the child is not led, coerced etc. I think it would be important that the child feel able to tell the truth and having someone she is comfortable with to reassure her may support this happening.

It's a terrible tragedy for the family who lost their beautiful baby at day care where they thought he would be safe.

Sorry, I didn’t quote you to target your post directly. I was more jumping off your post to express my frustration. I should have made that more clear, and my frustration was not directed at you.

 

[MediocreJelly]

The doctor saying that this wasn’t an accident is disturbing to me.

All JMO

I just took that to mean that the injuries were caused by violence rather than an accident such as dropping or falling off something, which we know, it was the 10 year old.

I wonder what the day care providers told doctors for them to say that. Did they not know what had happened, or try to cover it up?

We don't know this 10 year old knew right from wrong - there could be a learning disability or mental health problems, we don't know anything about her.

My instinct is that this behaviour is so far removed from a normal child, and I don't subscribe to ideas of 'evil', that there are some strong factors we aren't aware of.

And trying a 10 year old as an adult is just unbelievable to me, regardless. This is a seriously disturbed child. I'm not saying she should be free to return to society, but extended punishment is inappropriate and counterproductive. She needs intense psychiatric care.

 

[Jennifer17]

I just took that to mean that the injuries were caused by violence rather than an accident such as dropping or falling off something, which we know, it was the 10 year old.

I wonder what the day care providers told doctors for them to say that. Did they not know what had happened, or try to cover it up?

We don't know this 10 year old knew right from wrong - there could be a learning disability or mental health problems, we don't know anything about her.

My instinct is that this behaviour is so far removed from a normal child, and I don't subscribe to ideas of 'evil', that there are some strong factors we aren't aware of.

And trying a 10 year old as an adult is just unbelievable to me, regardless. This is a seriously disturbed child. I'm not saying she should be free to return to society, but extended punishment is inappropriate and counterproductive. She needs intense psychiatric care.

Totally agree. The adults in this home were supposed to be supervising two children.

 

[bears10]

I just took that to mean that the injuries were caused by violence rather than an accident such as dropping or falling off something, which we know, it was the 10 year old.

I wonder what the day care providers told doctors for them to say that. Did they not know what had happened, or try to cover it up?

We don't know this 10 year old knew right from wrong - there could be a learning disability or mental health problems, we don't know anything about her.

My instinct is that this behaviour is so far removed from a normal child, and I don't subscribe to ideas of 'evil', that there are some strong factors we aren't aware of.

And trying a 10 year old as an adult is just unbelievable to me, regardless. This is a seriously disturbed child. I'm not saying she should be free to return to society, but extended punishment is inappropriate and counterproductive. She needs intense psychiatric care.

Right. I find it disturbing that this was intentional violence.

I don’t think the foster care parents told the doctor anything to lead him to the conclusion that this was not an accident, I think he came up with that on his own based on the injuries of the victim. JMO

 

[Angleterre]

At 10 years of age there is ALWAYS a chance of rehabilitation without further recidivism.
Please don’t let this child be tried as an adult and be subjected to adult court policy and process.
I would hate to think that she has no chance to go on and lead a successful life where she can give back, after rehabilitation and support.
I’m not saying that she should be mollycoddled and that we forget about the victim in this case but to try her as an adult with the potential to be locked away for a very long time is barbaric in my view.
We are better than that !

 

[SandyQLS]

The law in Wisconsin is that children aged 10 and older can be tried as adults. The MSM articles explain that the initial charge is required although the case could be moved to a juvenile court.

I hope the case IS tried in adult criminal court, with a plea arrangement of NG by reason of mental defect or G but insane, that leads to a psychiatric in-patient institution for this child, with the criminal record in place. Clearly she cannot be allowed in public schools or daycares around other children, cannot be returned to parents or foster care. Juvenile detention until age 18 is possible, but she would not get the intensive help she needs. I think this girl is extremely disturbed.

I would not as adult want to be asleep in a house with this girl. I would not want her near a child of mine. Public safety > needs of indivudual child who has murdered a baby.

She 1) disobeyed the foster mother's instructions to stay outside and not disturb the sleeping baby, 2) not only disturbed the baby but took him out of the crib another defiant/disobedient act, 3) she alone states that dropping the baby was accidental but it could have been intentional, 4) she STOMPED on his head with enough force to cause death which is murder, 5) she lied to police. I don't pretend to know what is wrong with her, but she's a budding serial killer displaying no respect for human life, disobedience, defiance, violence and dishonesty.

There will not be an easy answer. Law & Order had an episode like this years ago where a 10 year old girl murdered a little boy - 1999-2000 Season #10, Episode #207, "Killerz" - still photos from show at link

"Law & Order" Killerz (TV Episode 1999) - IMDb

The resolution on the show was putting her right back with her mother and outpatient therapy with court supervision. It was very disturbing.

 

[fred&edna]

I found this fairly recent case of an 11 yr old male found guilty of first-degree murder in 2016 (Jefferson County TN).

"... the judge found Benjamin Nicolas Tiller, 11, “guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, to have committed the delinquent offense of first degree murder, and is found, by a preponderance of the evidence, to be in need of treatment and rehabilitation.”

On Feb. 1, the second and last day of the trial, Judge Roach II placed the boy into the custody of the Department of Children’s Services under a “determinate sentence,” which means he will be held until he reaches his 19th birthday.

“The State of Tennessee should utilize all reasonable resources to determine why Mr. Tiller, an 11-year-old child, chose to kill an 8-year-old child, and to treat and rehabilitate him so that this will not happen again.

“A child who commits first-degree murder cannot be willy-nilly turned loose into society. To hold otherwise would, in the opinion of the Court, fly in the face of reasonable prudence.”"


Murder trial ends in guilty verdict and sentencing for 11-year-old White Pine boy