Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[Sustained]

I said in another thread about RH,read any FBI profilers book about how a lot of guilty people act. He hits almost all the markers.SA acted like an innocent person from day 1, yelling he was innocent and they where going to frame him.

Of course SA is going to say he's innocent after he spent 18 years in jail on a wrongful conviction. And there are discrepancies in his stories.

 

[Sustained]

IMO, SA was very brave to go back to where he was living after his first wrongful conviction was overturned. Perhaps he should of seen the writing on the wall.
If it can happen once it can certainly happen again. And as i reiterate, i'm sure MC never thought it would be an issue for them until MAM 1 & 2 came out, and all the focus on this case now. It certainly makes me wonder what else they might have gotten away with over the years?

It's all speculation that they "got away" with anything this time.

 

[Sustained]

Agree, he was too trusting. Perhaps he thought with it being such a big deal at the time and splashed all over the media, that they wouldn't be game to try again?
But there was that civil case to go through against certain people.
And i don't necessarily think it was all about the money either, but that certain people involved may very well have been criminally convicted themselves. JMO.

Has anyone on the Avery innocence side ever put a list together of all of the folks that would have been involved if there was a conspiracy to frame Avery ?

 

[captnchuck67]

off top of my head
Kranz
Fassbender
Colburne
Lenk
Weigrt
Petersen

 

[Karinna]

From KZ's motion:
(quote)
Therefore the Willis court reversed the circuit court and remanded the case for an evidentiary hearing.
The same result is required here.
Mr. Avery has identified each witness who would testify, and the subject matter of the witness's testimony covering the who, what, when, how, and why all of the evidence used to convict Mr. Avery. A chart that describes all of the evidence presented by Mr. Avery which more than meets the Allen criteria is attached and incorporated herein as Exhibit C.
Each allegation cited in the chart establishes the prejudice necessary to undermine confidence in Mr. Avery's verdict.
Avery Filed Motion 10.23.17 Part 1_motion

 

[Sustained]

off top of my head
Kranz
Fassbender
Colburne
Lenk
Weigrt
Petersen

Certainly there must be more than that ...

Pam Sturm
Ryan Hillegas
Bobby Dassey
Scott Tadych
Brad Schimel
Tom Fallon
Dave Remiker
Dan Kucharski
Sherry Culhane

 

[captnchuck67]

No those are the one necessary the others are pawns used to pull it off.

 

[Sustained]

No those are the one necessary the others are pawns used to pull it off.

But they all must know which makes it really surprising no one has leaked anything.

 

[RoiPD86]

Hi & Welcome. Good post and good to get your opinion on the case. Agree with a lot of what you say as well.
What do you think about the finding of Teresa's vehicle at the ASY so quickly? That was such a huge salvage yard with heaps of cars everywhere, and IMO it would of been like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Thank you! been working a ton so just getting to this. I would say that it seems strange how Pam was able to locate the vehicle so quickly. I would surmise she was in part directed to a starting point by chance or purposely. I would hedge my bet towards purposely to speed up the process for the LE moving forward. It is also odd that when she was on the phone with the investigator she was asked "does it look like a new vehicle?" Her response was something like "It looks like a 1999-2000 model" or something like that. Did she have experience with the body styles of the Rav4? It seems odd given the Rav4 was the same body style from 1994-2000 (1st generation). It strikes me as an odd response, almost as if she was coached in what to say.

 

[Karinna]

Thank you! been working a ton so just getting to this. I would say that it seems strange how Pam was able to locate the vehicle so quickly. I would surmise she was in part directed to a starting point by chance or purposely. I would hedge my bet towards purposely to speed up the process for the LE moving forward. It is also odd that when she was on the phone with the investigator she was asked "does it look like a new vehicle?" Her response was something like "It looks like a 1999-2000 model" or something like that. Did she have experience with the body styles of the Rav4? It seems odd given the Rav4 was the same body style from 1994-2000 (1st generation). It strikes me as an odd response, almost as if she was coached in what to say.

Hi Roi, Thanks for your reply. Agree with what you say and it is odd.

 

[Karinna]

Certainly there must be more than that ...

Pam Sturm
Ryan Hillegas
Bobby Dassey
Scott Tadych
Brad Schimel
Tom Fallon
Dave Remiker
Dan Kucharski
Sherry Culhane

I am going by what KZ has stated in her motions to the court etc, and from what i understand she is not implicating any of those people you mention.
I think her main focus has been RH, BoD, & ST.
As for the rest who knows what part they could of played in it all?

 

[guruagain]

Thank you! been working a ton so just getting to this. I would say that it seems strange how Pam was able to locate the vehicle so quickly. I would surmise she was in part directed to a starting point by chance or purposely. I would hedge my bet towards purposely to speed up the process for the LE moving forward. It is also odd that when she was on the phone with the investigator she was asked "does it look like a new vehicle?" Her response was something like "It looks like a 1999-2000 model" or something like that. Did she have experience with the body styles of the Rav4? It seems odd given the Rav4 was the same body style from 1994-2000 (1st generation). It strikes me as an odd response, almost as if she was coached in what to say.

Well, she had to be sure, "she didn't want to put the....you know" in the wrong vehicle.

 

[missy1974]

I am going by what KZ has stated in her motions to the court etc, and from what i understand she is not implicating any of those people you mention.
I think her main focus has been RH, BoD, & ST.
As for the rest who knows what part they could of played in it all?

Right, I think KZ says it was the "real killer" and possible 1 or 2 LE officers that could have done it. Some of what happened was just incompetence... like the investigation of the burn pit, the lab work, the lack of investigating those close to TH. I believe she has implicated Colborn for the RAV4/key, maybe even the license plate. She has implicated Wiegert in swapping swabs. It's possible that other LE might have been aware or suspicious of the evidence, but I don't expect any of them to turn on the others, but that's JMO. I have read that KZ was been told by someone that Steven is innocent (can't recall if it was in an article, or if it was in her twitter questions/answers), if that someone is LE and was involved in the case, it would definitely give KZ more reason to keep going.

 

[captnchuck67]

But they all must know which makes it really surprising no one has leaked anything.

Last time basically same players didn't for over 18 years. Look at the crap with Burge in Chicago, that involved a lot of law Enforcement and they are still protecting each other and the guy is dead.

 

[Poedelini]

Im new here and i haven't read or seen all of the documents or evidence im still trying to catch up, but i have a question.

How do people who think SA is guilty explain that the firepit could be impossible to be the burnsite of a body claimend by the expert in MaM 2?
Im super interested in this case because it seems so complex.

 

[Sustained]

Right, I think KZ says it was the "real killer" and possible 1 or 2 LE officers that could have done it. Some of what happened was just incompetence... like the investigation of the burn pit, the lab work, the lack of investigating those close to TH. I believe she has implicated Colborn for the RAV4/key, maybe even the license plate. She has implicated Wiegert in swapping swabs. It's possible that other LE might have been aware or suspicious of the evidence, but I don't expect any of them to turn on the others, but that's JMO. I have read that KZ was been told by someone that Steven is innocent (can't recall if it was in an article, or if it was in her twitter questions/answers), if that someone is LE and was involved in the case, it would definitely give KZ more reason to keep going.

Missy, IMO KZ is strictly now doing this for the publicity.

Im new here and i haven't read or seen all of the documents or evidence im still trying to catch up, but i have a question.

How do people who think SA is guilty explain that the firepit could be impossible to be the burnsite of a body claimend by the expert in MaM 2?
Im super interested in this case because it seems so complex.

DeHaan said it would take 6-8 hours to burn TH's body to the degree it was found in the burn pit. If Avery started the fire @ 7pm, that takes us to between 1-3 am. Where is the proof there was no fire after 11pm ? If Avery is lying about what time he went to bed, he could have easily kept the fire going until 3am. He already said he was in bed by 9, but Blaine saw him by the fire @ 10pm and Kayla @ 11pm. Why would both of them lie ? And 10/31/05 was a Monday - kids had school the next day, BT had to go to work, and BobD most likely went to work around 10 or 11pm. Everyone was most likely in bed and not paying attention to a fire in SA's burnpit.

I saw see no mention of an accelerant by DeHaan or the effect one might have had on the burn time.

 

[CoolJ]

Certainly there must be more than that ...

Pam Sturm
Ryan Hillegas
Bobby Dassey
Scott Tadych
Brad Schimel
Tom Fallon
Dave Remiker
Dan Kucharski
Sherry Culhane

There are a lot of liars and stretchers of the truth in this case, no doubt. But at the time it was happening I don’t necessarily think they were actively conspiring as a group.
Rather, many were being manipulated and thought SA was guilty so they stepped over the line a bit to make his conviction stick. Corruption appears to be a culture there.

 

[CoolJ]

But they all must know which makes it really surprising no one has leaked anything.

We don’t know that they haven’t.
In fact, Zellner alludes to this in her recent Q&A.

 

[Poedelini]

Missy, IMO KZ is strictly now doing this for the publicity.


DeHaan said it would take 6-8 hours to burn TH's body to the degree it was found in the burn pit. If Avery started the fire @ 7pm, that takes us to between 1-3 am. Where is the proof there was no fire after 11pm ? If Avery is lying about what time he went to bed, he could have easily kept the fire going until 3am. He already said he was in bed by 9, but Kayla saw him by the fire @ 11pm.

10/31/05 was a Monday - kids had school the next day, BT had to go to work, and BobD most likely went to work around 10 or 11pm. Everyone was most likely in bed and not paying attention to a fire in SA's burnpit.

I saw see no mention of an accelerant by DeHaan or the effect one might have had on the burn time.

True i also thought to see that somebody else saw him outside around 11pm but i have to search that. DeHaan said also that there should've been more evidence of a burning body after the fire. Like more ashes or a dark scorch. He is like a expert in these kind of crime scenes and say's that there was cremation in this pit. That has to say something big i think.

I searched it up and Blaine also see's Steven at the bonfire around 11.30pm

 

[Sustained]

True i also thought to see that somebody else saw him outside around 11pm but i have to search that. DeHaan said also that there should've been more evidence of a burning body after the fire. Like more ashes or a dark scorch. He is like a expert in these kind of crime scenes and say's that there was cremation in this pit. That has to say something big i think.

I searched it up and Blaine also see's Steven at the bonfire around 11.30pm

So much for SA's story being consistent from the beginning - or maybe Blaine is lying as well ?