Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[Sustained]

There are a lot of liars and stretchers of the truth in this case, no doubt. But at the time it was happening I don’t necessarily think they were actively conspiring as a group.
Rather, many were being manipulated and thought SA was guilty so they stepped over the line a bit to make his conviction stick. Corruption appears to be a culture there.

Corruption may have been an issue with Vogel & Kocourek - there is no evidence of any corruption that I know of after Avery was released from state prison.

 

[CoolJ]

Missy, IMO KZ is strictly now doing this for the publicity.

This comment really irks me. Have you never met anyone who's passion is their work? Have you never met anyone who’s motive for their work is helping others?

Do you think everyone is money and power hungry?

I’m sorry, but you have no valid argument here. This comment is disengenous at best.

 

[Poedelini]

So much for SA's story being consistent from the beginning - or maybe Blaine is lying as well ?

Im sorry i think it was wrong. This site say's Blaine saw Steven at 11.30pm but in the Blaine interview on 7th of november it say's he went to bed around 9.30 / 10 pm.

Event Timeline

 

[CoolJ]

So much for SA's story being consistent from the beginning - or maybe Blaine is lying as well ?

This isn’t SA’s story, this is his memory about what happened a week or so ago in an insignificant night in his life at that point. There is no proof whatsoever that there was even a fire in his burn pit that night, let alone that he was lying about it.

You are really reaching here by assuming SA’s story keeps changing based on these statements.

 

[Sustained]

This comment really irks me. Have you never met anyone who's passion is their work? Have you never met anyone who’s motive for their work is helping others?

Do you think everyone is money and power hungry?

I’m sorry, but you have no valid argument here. This comment is disengenous at best.

I've met plenty of people whose passion is their work and they are not seeking publicity. They work quietly in the shadows and accept thanks from no one.

KZ originally turned Avery's case down as she thought he was guilty. Then she watched MaM1 and lo and behold, look who dominates MaM2.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

 

[Sustained]

This isn’t SA’s story, this is his memory about what happened a week or so ago in an insignificant night in his life at that point. There is no proof whatsoever that there was even a fire in his burn pit that night, let alone that he was lying about it.

You are really reaching here by assuming SA’s story keeps changing based on these statements.

Laughable at best when reported by numerous members of the Dassey family and ST.

Didn't SA say his mom brought him his mail on 10/31 ? Well, Brendan said he got SA's mail and brought it to him. Of course, Brendan must be lying because SA doesn't lie.

 

[Poedelini]

To be honest i think KZ hopped on the MaM2 train for the spotlight and now she knows indeed more because of MaM1 she has a bit more certainty that he may not have done it.

 

[missy1974]

Im sorry i think it was wrong. This site say's Blaine saw Steven at 11.30pm but in the Blaine interview on 7th of november it say's he went to bed around 9.30 / 10 pm.

Event Timeline

Welcome to websleuths!

Just for your information... here is the written report from Blaine's first interview and a later follow up:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...bit-355-Blaine-Dassey-11-7-2005-Interview.pdf

Reading this again, I took a snip of a part towards the end where Blaine says he remembers being with Bobby in the garage and sees Steve running into his trailer, as if to get something... IMO this would be when Steve reopened his gash and he went into his trailer. Interesting to re-read some of this stuff!

Blaine was wrong about the Friday night thing though... we know it was the Thursday because they did check Menard's for video.

 

[missy1974]

Im new here and i haven't read or seen all of the documents or evidence im still trying to catch up, but i have a question.

How do people who think SA is guilty explain that the firepit could be impossible to be the burnsite of a body claimend by the expert in MaM 2?
Im super interested in this case because it seems so complex.

Sorry, working backwards today lol

www.stevenaverycase.org has the majority of the documents from the case. It has the trial transcripts, the photo's and exhibit's that were at the trials, police reports, interviews, appeal documents. It is full of information and will be overwhelming if you are just starting to research. The benefit to this site is that it just has the information, there is no commentary, no bias. Feel free to ask questions if you are looking for something

This might be a good spot to start http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf

That is the Calumet County investigative report, it is long, again, sorry lol

 

[missy1974]

off topic... is there an easier way to attach files to our posts? I have used "upload a file", which is beside the post reply ... but seems like there should be an easier way? lol

 

[proudfootz]

Agree, he was too trusting. Perhaps he thought with it being such a big deal at the time and splashed all over the media, that they wouldn't be game to try again?
But there was that civil case to go through against certain people.
And i don't necessarily think it was all about the money either, but that certain people involved may very well have been criminally convicted themselves. JMO.

I think there are things like criminal liability and their reputations and careers as being much more motivational.

Plus the very idea of a civilian getting the better of their gang.

MOO

 

[proudfootz]

The thing that galls me the most is the interrogation of BD,how can any legal expert look at that and let that stand? Those two investigators should have been out of jobs a long time ago.

Sadly, getting a conviction counts for more than anything.

JMO

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I've met plenty of people whose passion is their work and they are not seeking publicity. They work quietly in the shadows and accept thanks from no one.

KZ originally turned Avery's case down as she thought he was guilty. Then she watched MaM1 and lo and behold, look who dominates MaM2.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

Is there proof she didn’t take it because she thought he was guilty?

I’m sure she gets letters from lots of people who claim to be innocent and weeding through all of that and deciding which cases to dedicate her time to isn’t easy.

 

[Karinna]

Im new here and i haven't read or seen all of the documents or evidence im still trying to catch up, but i have a question.

How do people who think SA is guilty explain that the firepit could be impossible to be the burnsite of a body claimend by the expert in MaM 2?
Im super interested in this case because it seems so complex.

Hi & Welcome. BBM,I agree SA's firepit was not the original burn site. Why is so much of TH's skeletonised body missing from the fire pit?
I can't see SA deliberately burning a body there and moving bones to other locations and just leaving some of the bones in the pit. That just is nonsensical IMO.

 

[proudfootz]

Is there proof she didn’t take it because she thought he was guilty?

I’m sure she gets letters from lots of people who claim to be innocent and weeding through all of that and deciding which cases to dedicate her time to isn’t easy.

According to this interview KZ believed media reports that the physical evidence was reliable. She ended up watching the documentary and she quickly changed her mind.

Steven Avery had already contacted me a couple of years before that, and he flunked our screen, because there was so many pieces of forensic evidence that seemed to implicate him.

When I watched (the show), I knew there was a huge problem. Like when I heard the testimony of the state experts, most of them were people that were not well-credentialed. The testimony was not very precise. I had just gotten someone exonerated on blood spatter, and blood spatter (in Avery's case) made absolutely no sense.

I was very focused on Steven Avery's demeanour, because I've learned, over the years, particularly when the verdict came in, you'll see people that are guilty sobbing and all that, but there's a certain look that you just would have to have seen it a bunch of times like I have. And it really struck me when I saw that, that he could well be innocent.

So I came in the office the next week, and I pulled the letters from our system that he'd written me, and I asked him if I could come and visit with him. And I explained to him that if I took the case, I'd want to do all the scientific testing. At that time, I was saying to him, "I'd probably want you to do a polygraph before I'd even accept it, blah, blah, blah." And he was like, "Anything you want to do." That is never what someone guilty tells you, ever. So just in the first meeting with him, I was very struck with that.


Making a Murderer: Meet the Netflix show's new star - attorney Kathleen Zellner

 

[Karinna]

I've met plenty of people whose passion is their work and they are not seeking publicity. They work quietly in the shadows and accept thanks from no one.

KZ originally turned Avery's case down as she thought he was guilty. Then she watched MaM1 and lo and behold, look who dominates MaM2.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I.

KZ doesn't need fame or fortune, she already has those things from the previous 19 or so wrongful convictions she has had overturned with new DNA evidence etc.

 

[Sustained]

Hi & Welcome. BBM,I agree SA's firepit was not the original burn site. Why is so much of TH's skeletonised body missing from the fire pit?
I can't see SA deliberately burning a body there and moving bones to other locations and just leaving some of the bones in the pit. That just is nonsensical IMO.

IMO, Avery moved some of it and probably would have moved the rest if he could done it w/o detection. Same with crushing the car.

 

[Sustained]

KZ doesn't need fame or fortune, she already has those things from the previous 19 or so wrongful convictions she has had overturned with new DNA evidence etc.

MaM2 has exponentially increased her visibility. The only way I heard of Zellner was b/c I followed the Ryan Ferguson case after seeing it on 48 Hours.

 

[Karinna]

IMO, Avery moved some of it and probably would have moved the rest if he could done it w/o detection. Same with crushing the car.

I doubt that very much.
Why not just dig a hole in the ground and shovel all of it in and cover it over? Moving bones around all over the place as i said is nonsensical, and a time consuming way to hide evidence.
I think most perpetrators of a murder would know to get rid of evidence quickly because time is not on their side from other cases i have followed.

 

[Sustained]

I doubt that very much.
Why not just dig a hole in the ground and shovel all of it in and cover it over? Moving bones around all over the place as i said is nonsensical, and a time consuming way to hide evidence.
I think most perpetrators of a murder would know to get rid of evidence quickly because time is not on their side from other cases i have followed.

Cadaver dogs. And investigators wold obviously seen evidence of any big hole near Avery's trailer.

I'm 100% convinced his goal was to destroy every and anything related to TH or move it off the Avery Salvage Yard. He just couldn't do it with out someone seeing him.

JMO ...