CA - Multiple casualties after 'active shooter' opens fire, Thousand Oaks, 08 Nov 2018

[Jennifer17]

ok, wow. Makes more sense now. So, my bet is the shooter purposely targeted this bar for that specific reason.

How awful.

 

[mickey2942]

Fate. Survive massacre in Las Vegas, only to get killed in Thousand Oaks.

We know who these people are in society. We just don't know the exact circumstances that make one person an awesome example of overcoming adversity, and another person becomes a mass murderer.

 

[Breezie]

California shooting survivor went to high school with the gunman | Daily Mail

 

[UKslueth2018]

That might have been part of the reason but he had been going
to that bar for awhile and was considered a regular there.

Thousand Oaks Bar Shooter Ian Long Posted on Instagram During Killings

A former classmate of Long's tells TMZ, Long was bullied in high school. She says his fellow students made fun of him because he had a lazy eye, and it affected him deeply. The classmate says a lot of those students go to that bar on Wednesday nights. She says he knew some of the people who teased him would be there.

We're told he was a regular at the bar, usually keeping to himself ... grabbing a beer and sitting at the bar.



Thousand Oaks mass shooting survivor: "My friend killed my other friends" - CBS News

This article is about one of Ian’s friends who was at the bar.

Todd Stratton, who was at the bar with two friends who died, said he was in "disbelief" because he's known Long for years.

CBS NEWS
"My friend killed my other friends, and I was just there to see it all happen," Stratton said. "I didn't think that he was the type of person that would do this, and I don't understand it."

I read this article and I wonder if bullying was part of his motive, I wonder if he did go to school with any of the victims.. Not checking that as no matter what happened is past.

Just all so sad, think the world needs to move fast on how we fix childhood trauma's.

I scored 9 on the ace test (it wasn't great childhood) but I could never imagine hurting anyone else because of it...
I would definitely volunteer to be brain scanned/ mapped to determine brain structure, choices chemistry etc if it meant it would help understand the differences to come up with a real solution as opposed to a lot of different pharmaceuticals which may or may not work xx

 

[oceanblueeyes]

“I hope they call me insane… (laughing emojis) wouldn’t that just be a big ball of irony?” Ian David Long, 28, wrote around the time of Wednesday’s attack, law enforcement officials told CNN.

“Yeah… I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’.. or ‘keep you in my thoughts’… every time… and wonder why these keep happening…”

---
^^^ this sounds like a sullen, demented, stunted juvenile.

Sometimes I wish we could rewind the time machine back to before the Internet. -- To the dance clubs, concerts, schools, theaters, houses of worship, shopping malls, marathons, and yoga studios before they were regular targets.

There's a lot of hate being spewed in the Internet public square that seems to have escalated.

In addition to a deranged mental state, what the current mass murderers seem have in common are various forms of hate expression, isolation, and the red flags of publicizing?

And when they are still not noticed, or are written off, they are unwilling to see any other alternative in their minds eye before pulling the trigger.

Yes, of course, there are cases of horrendous mental health problems, some very obvious like the Aurora theater, sandy hook, Giffords, murderers to name a few.

What is scary is that this happened in a very gun restricted state just as easily as it happens in a permissive one.

Sometimes I think our understanding of terrorism is still nascent. Its methods, and horrific images are readily available to anyone. Its method of some perceived form of martyrdom is appealing.

I saw a program on a school that in addition to regular monitoring, is implementing an artificial intelligence scanner that detects guns, and warns internally, and LE in real time.

I think this technology will become more sophisticated. What if a shooter could be caught before ever making it into any soft target? What if the surprise element was turned around on the shooter?

We see new amazing technology developing now in home security.

My problem with good guy with a gun is willingness and training. Asking someone to live with themselves if they kill innocents in a crowd by mistake while going after the bad guy. --So many not prepared especially in an ambush. And, that is also why it's safer to be on Times Square on NYE.

All that said, there are heroes in every single one of these tragedies. But they should never have to be tested like this in the first place.

We are not going to resolve this human crisis quick enough by trying to legislate it, right? But maybe there is a way to outsmart it another way. If we can see the smallest details from space...

Are there really a lot of cases where a legally armed citizen shot others besides the one they were trying to stop?

I know it happens occasionally when the police are in a shoot out with a suspect or suspects.

Most legal gun owners are just as proficient in using their weapon as many officers are.

I would think it's more likely police officers accidently shoot bystanders more often than legally armed citizens which have stopped thousands of criminals or crimes from happening over the years.

Jmo though

 

[The 13th]

Yeah, I don't see being a nasty piece of work as a mental illness. I thought people were just commenting on how he's always been a hateful d bag, ever since they've known him. Not to say he didn't have mental issues, but he sounds a lot like he's just always been a horrible person first and foremost. JMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

From what I've read about IL it seems there were signs of mental health issues prior to joining the Marines. There are a number of mental health conditions that prevent a person from enlisting in the armed forces. However, it looks like his mental health issues were either undetected, unknown or overlooked.

 

[Breezie]

From what I've read about IL it seems there were signs of mental health issues prior to joining the Marines. There are a number of mental health conditions that prevent a person from enlisting in the armed forces. However, it looks like his mental health issues were either undetected, unknown or overlooked.

Army lifts ban on waivers for recruits with history of some mental health issues

This would not have made a difference, in this case, but this article, from last year, mentions that waivers are being allowed for some mental health issues because there are not enough recruits.

 

[UKslueth2018]

Army lifts ban on waivers for recruits with history of some mental health issues

This would not have made a difference, in this case, but this article, from last year, mentions that waivers are being allowed for some mental health issues because there are not enough recruits.

Seriously.. That does not sound good, I had assumed he would have been tested prior to service. Marines isn't the easiest to get into is it? I thought it was more than physical fitness but I don't know...

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Seriously.. That does not sound good, I had assumed he would have been tested prior to service. Marines isn't the easiest to get into is it? I thought it was more than physical fitness but I don't know...

Unless this has changed, the Marines are considered an elite branch of the armed forces and they have stricter requirements. To become a Marine you need to meet their standards which includes a high school diploma, moral, mental and physical strength along with an aptitude and fitness test.

 

[Cryptic]

Seriously.. That does not sound good, I had assumed he would have been tested prior to service. Marines isn't the easiest to get into is it? I thought it was more than physical fitness but I don't know...

Do you mean tested for mental illness?

The military does test for mental illness and also uses basic training to identify and discharge mentally ill recruits. There is , however, a very good chance that the shooter was not mentally ill. Rather, he probably displayed the anti social tendencies of a low to mid level jerk at enlistment.

That level of anti social tendencies will not prevent him from staying in the military. It might prevent him from being promoted past a certain level unless he found a way to conceal it, or tone it down.

Special Forces units more actively screen for low to mid level anti social tendencies ("bad apple types") during training. If identified and if strong enough, they drop the soldier from the unit regardless of physical abilities. This is because men with those traits have a higher impact on a special forces team / mission. The rejected recruit, however, is not discharged, but returned to his unit.

As for ease of entering the military, each branch has their own recruiting goals. Depending on need verse available volunteers, the acceptance rate of marginal recruits can vary from year to year.

 

[Charlot123]

We may need a different thread, that discusses and anaa rage against society, and they reacted with violence, because of their absolute perceived helplessness. The plan to kill empowered them, and gave them an identity, something that they could actually accomplish. The planning gave them a feeling of power, that they could control something in a world that they have zero control over anything.

Imagine, if you can't hold down a job, because you don't "fit" in, for whatever reason, you can't make friends, no one wants to talk to you...people avoid you. But, you can fantasize about what you can do to have that control over those people.

This isn't about race, politics, religion, it is about society now, and how our post industrial age relies on people being able to work with other people. If you don't fit into the cookie cutter mold, you are discarded. These men reacted with violence. And I have no doubt that there will be more shootings, bombings, knife attacks...

This "fantasize" is very important. I think that this specifically type of loners has intense imaginary world. It is not necessarily a bad thing. First, lonely kids can escape into this world, if the real one becomes impossible, and second, it generates great sci-fi and other kinds of books. In fact, we have some writers who self-admit to being "loners", even comment on their diagnosis, and they write amazing literature, probably also the product of their imaginary world.

But some people have no outlets. They don't write (or can, but choose not to); they don't make podcasts, don't create art, they just spend more and more time in this imaginary world that becomes so obsessive.

I don't know what role computer games play in the whole process. Most of our mass shooters emerged with the development of computer games, and grew up on them. Predictably, the next generations are getting more and more "visual". Does it contribute into choosing the path of actively shooting instead of sitting at home and fantacizing? Or is it just a coincidence?

My hypothesis is, even imaginary world is full of "images" of people. There is some human contact with external world left. Computer games bring in an additional level of detachment. (I am not against them; they are here and are not going to leave).

And then the loners have absolutely nothing to distract them. They don't date, don't have real friends, usually are not into sports. And maybe, at a certain moment, the imaginary world grows into the real one so much that they lose touch with reality. Internally. Externally, they may look and behave totally fine. This is why neighbors and relatives are usually surprised at their act.

I wonder what role street drugs play in all of it, probably it is individual in each case, but sometimes they might accelerate psychosis.

 

[Charlot123]

So according to these statistics, 1 in 100 of the general public are severely mentally ill, whereas 1 in 5 mass killers are mentally ill.

1 in 100 seems very high. So in a crowded nightclub, there are going to be 3 to 6 severely mentally ill people there with you?

Surely. "The study revealed a lifetime prevalence rate of 1.0% for bipolar I, 1.1% for bipolar–II, and 2.4% for bipolar threshold (defined as having a lifetime history of 2 sub-threshold hypomanic episodes". This is only bipolar disorder alone. No one is one walking diagnosis, so one person can have bipolar disorder, anxiety, PTSD and something else. We have to add the high prevalence of self-medicating that does not improve things, of course.

 

[Elley Mae]

Official: Shooter debated sanity online during bar massacre

Official: Shooter debated sanity online during bar massacre

The gunman who killed 12 people at a country music bar in Southern California went on social media during the attack and posted about his mental state and whether people would believe he was sane, a law enforcement official said Friday.

Also, one of the possibilities investigators are looking into is whether gunman Ian David Long believed his former girlfriend would be at the bar, the official said.

 

[Cryptic]

A former classmate of Long's tells TMZ, Long was bullied in high school. She says his fellow students made fun of him because he had a lazy eye, and it affected him deeply.

It might be hard to get an accurate picture, or the picture can vary a lot depending on who is "painting" it.

For example, other students described Long as being noticeably, but not extremely aggressive / anti social in high school. Likewise, a former roommate described him as "mean" as an adult.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

At the only gun shop in Thousand Oaks, fearful residents decide it's time to buy a gun

 

[The 13th]

It might be hard to get an accurate picture, or the picture can vary a lot depending on who is "painting" it.

For example, other students described Long as being noticeably, but not extremely aggressive / anti social in high school. Likewise, a former roommate described him as "mean" as an adult.

That's something I'm having a really hard time getting past. I mean, he sexually assaulted his high school track coach. IMO it's starting to sound as though he's got a lot in common with some of the most recent shooters, with his hatred of women and his sense of entitlement.

https://deadspin.com/track-coach-says-thousand-oaks-shooter-assaulted-her-in-1830335296

 

[Cryptic]

That's something I'm having a really hard time getting past. I mean, he sexually assaulted his high school track coach. IMO it's starting to sound as though he's got a lot in common with some of the most recent shooters, with his hatred of women and his sense of entitlement.

https://deadspin.com/track-coach-says-thousand-oaks-shooter-assaulted-her-in-1830335296

Well said. My guess is that he could have been motivated by deep seated aggression mixed with a sense of entitlement regarding women, success / material possessions etc. Any sense of entitlement to material possessions may of been compounded by the fact that he was not exactly on the cusp of a high paying career. Rather, he was drifting.

As he was not getting his "entitlements", he gets increasingly frustrated. This frustration then dials up inherent aggressive tendencies. The result is suicide via rampage killing.

 

[Breezie]

Borderline Bar gunman's ex-wife posted sexy photos of herself on day of divorce | Daily Mail Online

This probably made him angry.

 

[human]

Borderline Bar gunman's ex-wife posted sexy photos of herself on day of divorce | Daily Mail Online

This probably made him angry.

If we did not know what we know now, looking at his past info would seem like a guy who could have had it all