AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

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Nerissa said:
If Jayme was either sneaking out to meet her boyfriend or sneaking back in & caught ...
& said boyfriend is mentally unstable:
I could see him doing what he did with zero rational thought whatsoever
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Especially if "boyfriend" was an adult male who'd be facing prison time for sex crimes in this scenario, IMO.
 
pepper 34 said:
I did think it happened that way at one time. In fact, it was while I was trying to fill in the "extra 20 minutes" provided by the neighbor's account of the gun shots. I had them all involved in a "discussion." But, I rejected it for these reasons:
Say YOU are one of the killers (just try)
1) How do you know I haven't texted someone about what you've been doing outside my house?
2) How do you know I haven't called LE to report what happened?
3) How do you know I haven't called someone in my family to discuss this. Yes, it's late but say I know my sister will be awake.
How can you take the chance and come back to kill me and my family or, since I know you, I already suspect you'll take Jayme...
You don't know what I've done while you were gone. If the morning comes and two of us are dead and daughter gone.... it all leads straight to you.
ETA: Also, I think they knew them but I think they didn't like whoever it was. Whoever it was, was not welcome at any time at their house, imo.
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Those are good points but they all assume the killers came to the house with the intent to kill, and that they behaved rationally after they were there. If it was some kind of emotional situation, or conflict, or disagreement that escalated, the behavior might have escalated rapidly and without logical thought.
 
There is a country song called "What was I thinking?" about a young man who takes off with his date while the dad is after them....I guess that would make sense in this scenario....But to actually kill all the family members? That's going too far IMHO
 
GordianKnot said:
LE doesn't have a working theory. What about us here on WS. Do we?
Can we try to advance a few working theories and see how they stand up to logical scrutiny?
I have a few thoughts:
IMO, this evil creep was someone known to at least one of the Closs family members.
IMO, James and Denise were the intended targets/victims.
IMO, Jayme was the motive for the crimes.
IMO, the evil creep is a lone adult male who had some type of inappropriate relationship with Jayme that came to light somehow and there was a confrontation that escalated/came to a head at the house that night.

<modsnip: There is no known fact to support such negative speculation about the victim.>

That's just my working theory as of right now...it might change tomorrow.
Please feel free to scrutinize, hold it up to the light for inspection, fact-check, point out flaws in my logic, etc. I would really like to hear everyone else's theories based on what we know so far...there are a lot of great minds on this thread, with many individual members having a lot of specific knowledge in a wide range of areas. What's everyone thinking?
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I agree it was something that was known to the family members and had been simmering and causing troubles that escalated that night. There may have been an ongoing situation and that's why James didn't go to the family party. Of course, he may have worked but he may just have been very upset by some situation at home. I have no facts to back this up. It's all feelings. But, a scenario like yours (a good deal that I agree with,) might explain why the sheriff says he thinks Jayme is alive and why the aunts spoke almost as though Jayme could come home by choice.
 
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i bounce from thinking it was a well i'll show them hot head incident to thinking a teen can flip flop in a min and they don't even know why sometimes..thinking boyfriend incident, to well it was oct and lots of horror movies and maybe someone wanted to bring a horror type idea to reality.
 
GordianKnot said:
Especially if "boyfriend" was an adult male who'd be facing prison time for sex crimes in this scenario, IMO.
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Wisconsin seems to have consent age at 18 with no exception for being close in age. So anyone 18 or over would for sure be in trouble...unclear about if a male is also under 18. But this all could be a rash “youth” i.e 17-21 age group imo. Not an age group known for impulse control or considering consequences...jmo.
 
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carbuff said:
Those are good points but they all assume the killers came to the house with the intent to kill, and that they behaved rationally after they were there. If it was some kind of emotional situation, or conflict, or disagreement that escalated, the behavior might have escalated rapidly and without logical thought.
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I think the killers did come to the house to kill and take Jayme. That comment I made is hypothetical. I was trying to explain my disagreement with the idea someone else put forth. I think they came to the house to kill and they killed with no discussion at all. (If you read the comment I was responding to, I think it will be more clear.) The comment made was that the killers came and arguments ensued... shots were fired... threats were made and then they left. ...Only to come back again to kill. I just respectfully disagree with that.
 
LE starts investigations from the center (victims) and work their way out (family, friends, coworkers, teachers, coaches, etc.). Sheriff said everyone is cooperating, wanting to help. They've checked out alibis, DNA samples, etc. I think if the perp(s) had any relationship to the victims, they'd be suspected or eliminated by now, or very soon. Same with anyone communicating through social media. This is why I think it's someone on the peripheral. The more time that goes by, the more likely it is a stranger. IMO. Maybe someone who sees Jayme getting on the bus in the morning on their way to work, then notes the two vehicles in the driveway on the way home from work.
 
cluciano63 said:
Sadly, there are precedents...
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Clu, agreed...there was a case in Tennessee I can think of that was here on WS. Here's a link to a brief article about the case for those interested: Lonnie Vann sentenced to 40 years for murder of Rhonda Daugherty | UPDATE

In that case, the evil creep, LV kidnapped and murdered RD, the wife of a man who was supposed to testify against him in court for accusations of inappropriate sexual contact with a 13-year-old.

Stupid, evil people do stupid, evil things when they're desperate.
It would not surprise me if this crime ends up bearing some similar characteristics to the case I linked above.
 
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sometimes I think it could be a friend of the family: someone who is always there at gatherings, but isn't officially family: the defacto cousin, uncle etc
OR
The best friend of Jayme's best friend's brother......

so many scenarios wherein she'd meet someone....and, especially if significantly older, & tell her how important it is nobody knows......classic child abuse...

My general working theory is someone was there, trying to intimidate the Closs family....couple shots fired....@ 25 minutes later they kicked in Closs family home door...

I do think Jayme was the reason........

Other idea I have is pure envy: so taking Jayme instead of leaving or even killing her was further retribution (this idea if either James or Denise was the target of rage that did not involve Jayme)
 
Al Ka said:
Thank You for all the narrative. Even though I have listened to interview it does help.

Just to add to certain points above - Will not comment on DNA recovered from the scene - It was stated that some people were being tested for DNA, which is interesting to note. Also that DNA from crime scene/evidence is still being tested and results are not back yet. So he pretty much answered the question even though at the end he stated no comment.

Another points to add - some phone calls are being monitored...
- social media are being monitored but not 24/7

I am actually quite glad that they are not zooming yet on one theory only without supporting evidence and that everything is still on the table. They are also checking on all theories no matter how far fetched they might sound to some. Once some evidence will surface they will take correct direction.

Edit: Adding video of interview -
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2153175108344242
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I just watched the entire interview with Sheriff Fitzgerald and Ben Dryden and I was very impressed. Obviously, there is a prior excellent relationship between these two men, which made it a relaxed and comfortable setting. Ben was not demanding more when the Sheriff could not comment or just did not know. They took questions all through the interview, questions we have all been asking on this forum.

One thing stood out to me when the sheriff was talking about the short time the killer(s) were in the home. I got the idea that he was not stating as fact the crimes took only 4 minutes. I think he was more focused on the 4 minutes that it took LE to arrive at the house. I, personally, felt better about that statement when I heard it in context.

I think the Sheriff handled himself well and explained why certain things are not released, like how many shots hit Jayme's parents. He said that would not in any way help the public to come up with any new tips.
 
CuriousMaine said:
LE starts investigations from the center (victims) and work their way out (family, friends, coworkers, teachers, coaches, etc.). Sheriff said everyone is cooperating, wanting to help. They've checked out alibis, DNA samples, etc. I think if the perp(s) had any relationship to the victims, they'd be suspected or eliminated by now, or very soon. Same with anyone communicating through social media. This is why I think it's someone on the peripheral. The more time that goes by, the more likely it is a stranger. IMO. Maybe someone who sees Jayme getting on the bus in the morning on their way to work, then notes the two vehicles in the driveway on the way home from work.
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... and therein lies our problem. What you say is just as logical as almost any other scenario we can come up with. (and is how LE works cases... logically) How I wish something would break so we could grab up just a few more pieces to this puzzle. I bet in the long run, we'll take all our scenarios and all of us will be able to say we came up with a little something that was right. (If we ever learn what happened.)
 
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Stunned said:
The changing schools is standing out to me. That is tough for a teenager that age. Starting over? Why? And no, I don’t buy caretaker explanation
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I think there was on-going trouble of some sort. Some families keep trouble behind closed doors with only a few or nobody at all let in on any of it. It can escalate and everyone is left wondering what happened because they had no idea anything was going on in the first place. Denise's sisters might have some ideas they shared with LE... but LE will have to be able to back up anything they say with real, tangible proof before an arrest would be made.
 
Sadly, I truly believe Jayme is gone. I think someone had an issue with the family and they were targeted. I think someone banged on the door shortly after midnight and when Jim got to the door, words were exchanged through the closed door and it was kicked in and Jim was shot. Then the intruder found Denise and shot her and somehow Jayme ran outside. I think the intruder followed her outside and shot her (the two shots the neighbor heard). He went back into the home where Denise was wounded and had tried to call 911. He found her, killed her and left. I hope I'm wrong, but I believe they'll find Jayme close to the home over the next few months.
 
Paul Blume‏Verified account @PaulBlume_FOX9
Paul Blume Retweeted Chris Fitzgerald

Latest update on #JaymeCloss search from Barron Co sheriff. They had search chopper back up over the city today to re-examine the landscape around Closs house now that leaves have fallen. Didn't find anything. Investigation continues. #FindJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Chris Fitzgerald‏ @bcsheriff
Nov 8, 2018 We continue to follow up on tips and look over the case with the continued support of the FBI and DCI agents. Today, we again used a helicopter to cover the area that was searched by the... https://www.facebook.com/barroncountysheriff/posts/2443478842335469 …

10:49 AM - 8 Nov 2018
 
pepper 34 said:
I think there was on-going trouble of some sort. Some families keep trouble behind closed doors with only a few or nobody at all let in on any of it. It can escalate and everyone is left wondering what happened because they had no idea anything was going on in the first place. Denise's sisters might have some ideas they shared with LE... but LE will have to be able to back up anything they say with real, tangible proof before an arrest would be made.
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Jayme's age and grade level is about when trouble starts brewing, such as bullying. I wondered if there wasn't another reason in addition to the caretaker moving that caused them to switch schools.
 
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