Who do you think is guilty? I'm relatively new here and...

[UKGuy]

In general...

All this fiber noise is more or less useless in a situation she was killed near laundry, she was in the laundry or her body was in the laundry and it was winter.

Adding probably woolen or similar dressing of the killer.

btw. I use a condom when I wont to "molest" someone and for me, using a glove... or a sweater to molest someone is at least strange but I am not from the US. These are probably cultural differences. (I am serious. Just have watched all series of "Misfits" recently)

archieil,

All this fiber noise is more or less useless

No, quite the opposite. In a country like the USA many fibers are generic being industrially produced, e.g. rayon, nylon, etc.

The shirt JR wore to the White's party had been manufactured in Israel from local wool so its forensic signature is distinct from woolen items available for purchase in the USA.

So although not unique just different enough not to be found lying about in laundry rooms !

If the fiber evidence is credible and could be produced in court then it would place JR at the scene of either JonBenet's death or subsequent staging.

The only other explanation is third party transfer.

.

 

[UKGuy]

As far as guilt, a ton of evidence, circumstances, statements, etc. points to someone in the family killing JonBenét. My belief is it was an accident (maybe) by Burke, and then John and Patsy staged a crime scene to try and keep suspicious eyes off of them.
If by some magical reason it wasn’t any of them, they know who did it and will carry the truth to their graves (Patsy already did, it seems). The intruder theory isn’t impossible, but it’s so far fetched it might as well be at this point. I also agree with kaykay543 above, if the FBI took over, it would’ve been an open and shut case and we wouldn’t be pushing to get justice for JonBenét 22 years later.
Money talks, too. I don’t know why, but I have a feeling John bought some people’s silence in all of this..
All MOO.

AdorableOrca96,
The thing is an accident does not explain away all JonBenet's injuries, all the abrasions, contusions and the alleged sexual assault, e.g. Digital Penetration and Sexual Contact opined by Coroner Meyer.

What we cannot know is if JonBenet's murder was premeditated. Depending on how you interpret Kolar's book, he seems to suggest her death was pre-planned.

It appears someone sexually, then physically assaulted JonBenet leaving her in a coma.

The important aspect is that nobody calls 911 or requests medical assistance for JonBenet, why would that be, if its all an accident?

.

 

[archieil]

Have you seen fibers report?

The case was not in a court.

I saw fibers report.

I know what am I talking about... these fibers are useless...
It can only add some explanations when you know what happened... RDIs have no idea what happened because their ideas are based on their mental issues.

no good RDI theory = no staging = the case was, is and will be IDI whatever the murderer team did and will do in the future.

 

[UKGuy]

Have you seen fibers report?

The case was not in a court.

I saw fibers report.

I know what am I talking about... these fibers are useless...
It can only add some explanations when you know what happened... RDIs have no idea what happened because their ideas are based on their mental issues.

no good RDI theory = no staging = the case was, is and will be IDI whatever the murderer team did and will do in the future.

archieil,
Did the intruder leave fibers anywhere at the crime-scene?

.

 

[archieil]

archieil,
Did the intruder leave fibers anywhere at the crime-scene?

.

there were hundreds of different fibers on and near JonBenet.
She was in the laundry area, she was standing on her feet, dead or alive...

There were many things around because of electrostatic.

The only information on and on are a few different types of fibers which BPD were able to suggest are connected with clothes parents were wearing a day earlier.

I have not seen a report about black wool fibers and how they were connected to the sweater

 

[UKGuy]

there were hundreds of different fibers on and near JonBenet.
She was in the laundry area, she was standing on her feet, dead or alive...

There were many things around because of electrostatic.

The only information on and on are a few different types of fibers which BPD were able to suggest are connected with clothes parents were wearing a day earlier.

I have not seen a report about black wool fibers and how they were connected to the sweater

archieil,
The wool fibers were cited in an interview between BPD investigators and JR with Lin Wood present who rejected the admissability of the fibers since he had not had sight of the forensic report, implying BPD were lying.

If the BPD fiber forensic report was produced during the Grand Jury proceedings then their analysis must be credible, specifically because the wool fibers originated in or around Israel.

Israeli woolen fibers that float or are transferred by a third party onto JonBenet's naked thighs in the wine-cellar are quite an exceptional event given we are talking Murder here.

,

 

[kaykay543]

In general...

All this fiber noise is more or less useless in a situation she was killed near laundry, she was in the laundry or her body was in the laundry and it was winter.

Adding probably woolen or similar dressing of the killer.

btw. I use a condom when I wont to "molest" someone and for me, using a glove... or a sweater to molest someone is at least strange but I am not from the US. These are probably cultural differences. (I am serious. Just have watched all series of "Misfits" recently

Nevrrnin

In general...

All this fiber noise is more or less useless in a situation she was killed near laundry, she was in the laundry or her body was in the laundry and it was winter.

Adding probably woolen or similar dressing of the killer.

btw. I use a condom when I wont to "molest" someone and for me, using a glove... or a sweater to molest someone is at least strange but I am not from the US. These are probably cultural differences. (I am serious. Just have watched all series of "Misfits" recently)

I’m not sure how to interpret your post. Especially that last paragraph which is offensive imo. I am trying to chalk it up to “cultural differences”

 

[archieil]

archieil,
The wool fibers were cited in an interview between BPD investigators and JR with Lin Wood present who rejected the admissability of the fibers since he had not had sight of the forensic report, implying BPD were lying.

If the BPD fiber forensic report was produced during the Grand Jury proceedings then their analysis must be credible, specifically because the wool fibers originated in or around Israel.

Israeli woolen fibers that float or are transferred by a third party onto JonBenet's naked thighs in the wine-cellar are quite an exceptional event given we are talking Murder here.

,

you have imagination...

a book for you:
"Queer Dirty Laundry"

I have got it when searching for an interview with Patsy stating the sweater was in the laundry a day earlier.

All males and their wives would understand an answer "how do I know where it was before I took it from a drawer".

 

[archieil]

I am not able to find a source with Patsy talking about John's sweater.
I may be wrong.
It could be some 2nd hand speculations.

It does not change much because the timing and place are not working well with all this fiber crap.

Boulder, winter and laundry/basement = this information is near useless and can be used as an addition to a theory not as a base to prove any theory.

If someone does not understand this and is paying close attention to this case (have enough knowledge) he is lacking probably basic scholar education.
I limited my time spend on this case mostly because I like S-F, not a poetry fantastic speculations because something sounds nice and looks nice like my wife or partner... (I can read "The Witcher" but it is a crap)

 

[UKGuy]

you have imagination...

a book for you:
"Queer Dirty Laundry"

I have got it when searching for an interview with Patsy stating the sweater was in the laundry a day earlier.

All males and their wives would understand an answer "how do I know where it was before I took it from a drawer".

archieil,

you have imagination...

Well thank you. I like your nicely styled prose and excellent grammar which demonstrates you have a good grasp of english.

Patsy might have said the sweater was in the laundry the day before, i.e. this is their postmortem defense, but JonBenet's longjohns came from JonBenet's bathroom according to Patsy's version of events, and the size-12's had never been washed or seen a laundry, they were clean on JonBenet.

So why should fibers from John's Israeli manufactured shirt worn that day only be found on clothing worn by JonBenet on that day only after the day when the sweater was in the laundry and after the White's party, e.g. JonBenet wore velvet pants to the party.

What Patsy is alleged to have said about John's shirt does not explain how the fibers arrived on JonBenet's body, after the White's party and in the wine-cellar, anywhere else, e.g. upstairs and you can suggest cross-transfer, but a murder crime-scene, how so?

.

 

[UKGuy]

I am not able to find a source with Patsy talking about John's sweater.
I may be wrong.
It could be some 2nd hand speculations.

It does not change much because the timing and place are not working well with all this fiber crap.

Boulder, winter and laundry/basement = this information is near useless and can be used as an addition to a theory not as a base to prove any theory.

If someone does not understand this and is paying close attention to this case (have enough knowledge) he is lacking probably basic scholar education.
I limited my time spend on this case mostly because I like S-F, not a poetry fantastic speculations because something sounds nice and looks nice like my wife or partner... (I can read "The Witcher" but it is a crap)

archieil,
The fibers only matter as they place JR at the crime-scene. If the fibers do not exist then JR gets a clean bill of health.

If the case were IDI you might expect fibers foreign to the house to be found in JonBenet's bedroom and the wine-cellar, have you read about them?

.

 

[archieil]

murder crime scene:

JonBenet room,

winecellar

basement, laundry in the basement.

JonBenet was in the laundry in the basement - fibers from laundry on her body.

I assumed she was naked moved to a laundry and dressed in the laundry - the reason for the placement of her hands. (1)


suggesting that a crime scene - winecellar and 1st floor when the Police arrived... typical RDIness.


and, thank you, yes, I understand irony.
I was learning passive English for my IT work not to write poems in English.

*) the placement of her hands = moved to a laundry, dressed, some waiting time = not possible to get her hands down without a knowledge of the professional.

hands up - most likely to dress her.

the only other idea = some reason + delay = hands up, she was not put to sleep dressed like that = you have to add some idea of redressing her.

 

[archieil]

archieil,
The fibers only matter as they place JR at the crime-scene. If the fibers do not exist then JR gets a clean bill of health.

If the case were IDI you might expect fibers foreign to the house to be found in JonBenet's bedroom and the wine-cellar, have you read about them?

.

these fibers are placing these fibers at the crime scene...

as I said.

Have you seen the report?

how many fibers? what kind of fibers? where exactly?

these are media information you are posting all the time and for me, it is just a crap.

[edit] nylon fibers in her bed are more interesting.

btw. the information "wool fibers from Israeli sweater inside her panties" have no sense = planted fibers or she was wearing these panties for a day long. min sense = wool fibers on her panties and on the internal side of these panties.

 

[UKGuy]

these fibers are placing these fibers at the crime scene...

as I said.

Have you seen the report?

how many fibers? what kind of fibers? where exactly?

these are media information you are posting all the time and for me, it is just a crap.

[edit] nylon fibers in her bed are more interesting.

btw. the information "wool fibers from Israeli sweater inside her panties" have no sense = planted fibers or she was wearing these panties for a day long. min sense = wool fibers on her panties and on the internal side of these panties.

archieil,

how many fibers? what kind of fibers? where exactly?

Atlanta 2000 BPD Interview with John Ramsey, Excerpt

21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is

22 our belief based on forensic evidence that

23 there are hairs that are associated, that the

24 source is the collared black shirt that you

25 sent us that are found in your daughter's

0058

1 underpants, and I wondered if you --
2 A. . I don't believe that.

3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to

4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --

5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to

6 disgrace --

7 A. Well, I don't believe it. I

8 think you are. That's disgusting.

...

8 THE WITNESS: If the question is

9 how did fibers of your shirt get into your

10 daughter's underwear, I say that is not

11 possible. I don't believe it. That is

12 ridiculous.

...

22 Q. Your dry-cleaning items, would you

23 just throw them down the chute and let Linda

24 sort them out, this is dry-cleaning, this

25 gets washed or would you separate them up

0066

1 front and keep them in a separate place, if

2 you recall?

3 A. I don't -- I am trying to

4 remember where the laundry chute went to. I

5 mean, it probably -- I wasn't that organized

6 to separate things out like that as a normal

7 course of business.

8 MR. BECKNER: Did you ask what he

9 did on that particular night with the shirt?

10 I missed that.

11 THE WITNESS: Frankly, I don't

12 remember.

...

25 THE WITNESS: -- I would hang

0067

1 onto it. If it was something I wanted to

2 wear again, I'd hang it, I'd try to, I'd

3 usually hang it up. Sometimes I would put

4 it on a chair. But I wasn't religious about

5 that. I would normally try to hang it up.

6 Q. (By Chief Beckner) Let me be

7 more specific. Would you throw your clothes

8 on the floor typically in a pile?

9 A. Well, no, not, not if I was, if

10 I was going to wear it again. If it was

11 headed for the laundry, you know, it could

12 end up on the floor before it ended up in

13 the laundry chute, but if I intend to wear

14 it again, if it was a suit or sweater, or

15 something like that, I normally wouldn't

16 throw it on the floor.

Atlanta 2000 BPD Interview with Patsy Ramsey, Excerpt

8 MR. LEVIN: I understand your

9 position.

10 In addition to those questions,

11 there are some others that I would like you

12 to think about whether or not we can have

13 Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I

14 understand you are advising her not to today,

15 and those are there are black fibers that,

16 according to our testing that was conducted,

17 that match one of the two shirts that was

18 provided to us by the Ramseys, black shirt.

19 Those are located in the

20 underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in

21 her crotch area, and I believe those are two

22 other areas that we have intended to ask

23 Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in

24 explaining their presence in those locations.

these are media information you are posting all the time and for me, it is just a crap.

According to BPD Forensic Analysis as quoted above in both interviews with John and Patsy the fibers exist and have been matched with John Ramsey's Israeli manufactured shirt.

Not only do those fibers exist as does Patsy's in the paint-tote, we do not have any foreign fibers where we might expect to find them, just Ramsey fibers !

.

 

[archieil]

There is a "book" about fibers in this case.

The Police interview is only showing the style of conversation the BPD was using.

There was a thread about fibers on Topix but I do not have access to that forum starting the day of "EU GDPR" came into force.

 

[UKGuy]

There is a "book" about fibers in this case.

The Police interview is only showing the style of conversation the BPD was using.

There was a thread about fibers on Topix but I do not have access to that forum starting the day of "EU GDPR" came into force.

archieil,
Sure, but this is BPD Investigators saying the fibers exist and match John's shirt, i.e. that is not me, you, topix or anyone else.

They matched Patsy's fibers from her jacket to deposits all over the wine-cellar including the knotting in the ligature using the same process.

Folks on topix are going to claim LEA are lying or the match is poor or there is an alternative reason, that's fine, but it does not detract from BPD saying the fibers found on JonBenet's crotch match his shirt!

.

 

[archieil]

Do you think I am paid to explain basis to anyone?

ok. I accepted. You have no idea about the basis in this case and it is enough for me.

Have you read the book? Does it have anything interesting except one sentence about looking like JonBenet?

I can go further in these explanations for information about the book.

 

[sharkeyes]

My two cents...I originally thought Patsy somehow caused JB's head injury, e.g. hitting against sink or tub and the rest was an elaborate, staged cover up. However, I am now of the opinion that Burke is involved, maybe hit JB with that flashlight, and the rest is still an elaborate, staged cover up. I do think Burke will eventually break...

 

[comingforyou]

I have to admit, I do not come in JBR topic most of the time. When I do, it seems people are so intense on their beliefs... either for or against the parents.

I know this is an intense topic. I'm finding so many that are against the mother.

I have a question though...

Do you believe a rookie drug detective (thomas) who NEVER DID A MURDER CASE...

OR DO YOU BELIEVE A SEASONED MURDER DETECTIVE WITH ALMOST AN IMPECABLE RECORD OF SOLVING MURDERS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF 1 CASE... THINKS THIS IS AN INTRUDER MURDER.

come on people... all around us is TRUE EXAMPLES OF children abducted from their own bedrooms... this was a LARGE LARGE HOME... HE COULDN'T RESIST HIMSELF, SHE DIED PREMATURELY,

How can people be so against the parents here?

(btw, I AM NOT A JAMS SUPPORTER)


I do honestly want to know peoples perspective as mine is obviously stated.

First of all you have to look at who called Lou Smit out of retirement and that is ...D.A. Alex Hunter. The same D.A. who straight up deceived the world into believing that the Grand Jury had NOT indicted the John and Patsy when they had.
Did the D.A. pass on certain information to Lou Smit. Did he use Lou Smit's credibility to try and convince people of an intruder? Lou had more credibility than Alex Hunter and more than the BPD.
Lou Smit prayed with the Ramseys. Stood by them till the very end. I'm thinking her knew something none of us were privy to and it had nothing to do with it being an intruder.

 

[comingforyou]

Do you think I am paid to explain basis to anyone?

ok. I accepted. You have no idea about the basis in this case and it is enough for me.

Have you read the book? Does it have anything interesting except one sentence about looking like JonBenet?

I can go further in these explanations for information about the book.

If your child was killed by a burglar would you fight tooth and nail to find out who it was? Would you want to know WHO and not so much WHY? John wanted to know why it happened. Isn't that irrelevant when your child is dead. You find the s.o.a.b. and have them punished. All that matters is justice and getting a murderer off the streets. Ramseys behaviour didn't add. Still doesn't add up. Will never add up.