AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #24

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human said:
I have to ask. Who in the heck eats raw turkey? I suppose people dom’t use proper cleaning techniques in the home.
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I've wondered that too, but I do think it comes more often from not washing your hands after handling it or not cleaning off counters, etc. well enough after it's been on them. MOO
 
cj1132 said:
No, dogs are not used in deer hunting as the deer would be able to smell them. Many hunters build a stand in a tree or hide in brush. Dogs are often used for small game like partridge or pheasants and that season starts in late October and runs into January. Duck season might still be open and dogs would be used for that. There are miles and miles of woods and, if Jayme is out there, finding her is going to be a matter of luck.
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Not true. Many people use hounds breeds for deer hunting. Hounds are brilliant at not only sniffing out a deer trail, by also flushing deer out and running them.

Hunting Deer with Hounds
 
Having read most of the preceding threads (I skip a page now and then) and considered the various theories, here's mine:

I think that Jayme was the target, and that the intention was to take her and sell her into sex slavery -- possibly to a highest bidder on a Dark Web location, or to a specific individual somewhere in the world.

I think that this murder/kidnap was carried out by individuals who had some previous experience both with killings and kidnappings. I think 2 individuals were involved in the actions that night, that both wore gloves to prevent fingerprints and wore caps or hats of some type that would be most likely to not allow any of their hair to fall to carpets and the like during the commission of the crime.

I strongly think that although the actual perpetrators likely did not and do not live in the community area of Barron, they know a third individual who does live and work there. This third individual may or may not have worked at Jennie-O, but as a community member was aware that Jayme was an only child of "that age" and very likely to be a virgin still (which matters to some people), and lived with just her parents in this somewhat secluded house right on a major roadway. With just her name and the names of her parents, any or all of these 3 individuals could have looked them up on Facebook and gained a pretty fair understanding of who they were and generally how they lived. With the address and Google Maps they could have looked at the property and noted the layout generally of the house, where the nearest neighbors were, and what roads ran where.

I think that given Jayme's gender, age and coloring plus her clean all-American overall looks, these individuals either already knew or firmly believed that they could make a lot of money by taking her and selling her. The 2 individuals who did the actual acts may be members of one of the several gangs that operate out of the larger cities in Wisconsin, and this is how they have the type of contacts to arrange for sales of this kind. I also think they came from one of the cities. and this explains the "shock and awe" entrance to the Closs home and the summary killing of James and Denise -- to gang members, they were totally expendable and a fast in-and-out was necessary. If they can sell Jayme for a million dollars or even half that, they are set up for life (or so they believe ... in the real world, money goes fast).

If not currently gang members, they likely have been in the past and had participation in some events of this type somewhere.

They probably did not use their own cars or, if so, they had stolen plates to put on them. The individual who lives locally in the Barron area may have recently quit his job and left the area, or will do so when he (presumably) receives his monetary "cut" from the sale. Either way, he may still be there as he would not want to make himself conspicuous by moving very close to the time the murders/kidnapping happened.

I think that Barron was agreed upon because it's a small town and the police force doesn't have experience with these types of crimes. But Barron is pretty close to Rice Lake and Eau Claire, and they probably went first to or through those towns which are larger and provide more "traffic cover" so to speak. Possibly the FBI has been or will be parsing the Dark Web for clues that could relate to this particular kidnapping.

IMHO, the above answers all the questions about "why" and potentially "who". The Sheriff and FBI need to do background checks into the lives of any individuals at Jennie-O or otherwise in the community who may have served as the local "lookout individual" who probably has seen Jayme around the area and selected her as a good candidate and either broached the whole idea to his buddies in whatever city, or knew they were thinking about doing something like this and gave Jayme's name and info out to them.
 
I had a thought which is probably not important even if it does end up being right. I never looked very closely at the chair, and I dislike guns enough that I'm not real familiar with what the damage one did would look like (I can't stand loud noises), so I may be way off base again. I was just thinking about Molly and wondered if she may have been barking at the guy from under the chair and he shot at her, hitting the chair instead. I hate to make it sound like she's to blame for anything, but is it possible that Jayme had managed to stay out of sight, got her mother's phone and hid (maybe in her parents' closet after getting the phone), but Molly came looking for her when the guy went after her. Some of the disturbance they heard could have been the guy yelling at Molly (maybe not by name if he didn't know them) and banging things around. She may have tried to stay quiet to keep him from knowing she was there, but Molly might whimper because she's afraid; once he opened the closet door all the way, he could have see her, pull her out and drag her out of the closet and the room. She would probably start yelling for help knowing the phone was still connected to 911, but Molly could have accidentally cut off the call while trying to hide better ... sorry Molly for making you the fall guy.

Unfortunately that doesn't get us any closer to knowing who did it or why, or where he took her even if it did happen that way. I just thought if I document what I'm thinking, it might help my mind get more organized so I can possibly come up with something useful. MOO
 
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Mountain_Kat said:
There is nothing about this crime that would indicate to me that whoever did this WAS smart.

JMO
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Except...it is five weeks later. Not smart maybe but quite lucky.

Have been thinking about all of the murders I am aware of committed by teens or youngish males of adults, and one thing they have in common is that it was immediately apparent who the perp(s) was. So that holds me back from my initial theory of some wild-eyed youth with a violent temper charging in to claim Jayme. The more time that has passed, the less likely to me that this was a crime by a young person (i.e under 21, say.) They are just not good at covering their tracks. All jmo
 
Confusion said:
I've wondered that too, but I do think it comes more often from not washing your hands after handling it or not cleaning off counters, etc. well enough after it's been on them. MOO
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Or from not cooking it to the proper temperature. Pork and turkey are notorious for salmonella issues. Some of that stems from the fact that turkeys are very thick and it can take longer to cook them. If you don't cook it to the right temp, you're risking sickness. But generally, yes, not disinfecting your counters or hands or allowing the raw turkey to touch another food item can also be how it's contracted.
 
Quotes from article BBM:

Fitzgerald told Fox at the time: 'No one talked on that call and we don't know who made it. We heard voices but we can't make out what was said.

'We do believe Jayme was home at the time the call was made.'

Fitzgerald said on Thursday that the team are following up on leads and watching CCTV from the area as well as reviewing all digital evidence.

About 80 surveillance videos were collected initially from businesses and other locations, according to Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald.

The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigation used a specially-trained dog to sniff out electronic devices at the Closs home, but none of the devices that were found have yielded any clues, including the three cellphones that belonged to Jayme and her parents, Fitzgerald said.

'There was nothing out of the ordinary, no boyfriends, nothing on there that points us in any direction,' he said.

Wisconsin police ask hunters for help as search continues for missing Jayme Closs | Daily Mail Online
 
human said:
But they would have no way of knowing if there was not another teen girl doing the crime with a male.
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Morning Human.

I am sure others have already answered your question but I didnt want you to think I was ignoring your post to me earlier.

I am sure they have Jayme's recorded voice either at school during an activity they videoed or they easily could have found video footage in her home during a special event such as her birthday or family get together.

Imo
 
Bugurl747 said:
Quotes from article BBM:

Fitzgerald told Fox at the time: 'No one talked on that call and we don't know who made it. We heard voices but we can't make out what was said.

'We do believe Jayme was home at the time the call was made.'

Fitzgerald said on Thursday that the team are following up on leads and watching CCTV from the area as well as reviewing all digital evidence.

About 80 surveillance videos were collected initially from businesses and other locations, according to Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald.

The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigation used a specially-trained dog to sniff out electronic devices at the Closs home, but none of the devices that were found have yielded any clues, including the three cellphones that belonged to Jayme and her parents, Fitzgerald said.

'There was nothing out of the ordinary, no boyfriends, nothing on there that points us in any direction,' he said.

Wisconsin police ask hunters for help fu as search continues for missing Jayme Closs | Daily Mail Online
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Thank you for the recap.

I havent ever believed Jayme had a boyfriend. I know Fitzgerald has looked high and low for one but he just doesnt exist. Imo

Which in many ways makes me even more worried for Jayme's safe return.

It truly makes me think this is not going to end well for Jayme and her family who are waiting for her to return.

I am sure Fitzgerald was hoping to find a boyfriend of Jayme's even if it was by SM but he definitely is coming up empty in that regard imo.

So I am sure they have widened out their potential suspect pool but I'm not sure that is leading them anywhere either.

Even the 2 vehicles of interest doesnt seem to be from that county and they have had ample time now to check statewide. So I don't think that has helped either.

Someone mentioned earlier that overall homicide rates have declined in the last 6 years which is true. Our highest homicide rates were in the 90s.

But even though they have declined overall what has been different IMO is the profile of who are committing some of these homicides now each year. And that is homes being invaded by complete strangers in recent years.

There has been an uptick on those type of criminals who have become murderers even mass murderers and also rapists whether the victims are adults or children. Human life seems to have no value to these type of criminals.

So I think the offender in this case could be anyone from a complete stranger or someone the victims knew even if casually.

No longer do gruesome crime scenes ..where the victims were overkilled ...mean it was done by someone known to the victims for we have seen many cases in recent years showing that is not necessarily true anymore.

I am sure it's also caused LE to look at cases differently in recent years instead of assuming the suspect knew the victims.

Whoever this is whether a stranger or known to them neither had any qualms whatsoever in taking these risks in order to destroy a good family.

That's what's scary about some criminals of today. They don't have to even know their victims anymore.

Jmo
 
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mtnlites said:
Okay, so I made a post a couple of days ago about the front door being shot and I was treated like I had two heads. Thank you for this link.
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You may still, 'because LE has not verified it', and no one has seen the actual door close enough to know if it was shot or not. But the aunt was quoted very early on saying that the door had been shot. So Ive always kind of believed her, and havent been very popular when I mention it either. :)
 
cluciano63 said:
Except...it is five weeks later. Not smart maybe but quite lucky.

Have been thinking about all of the murders I am aware of committed by teens or youngish males of adults, and one thing they have in common is that it was immediately apparent who the perp(s) was. So that holds me back from my initial theory of some wild-eyed youth with a violent temper charging in to claim Jayme. The more time that has passed, the less likely to me that this was a crime by a young person (i.e under 21, say.) They are just not good at covering their tracks. All jmo
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Random crimes are the hardest to solve, not because the criminal is any smarter, but simply because of the randomness of the crime. There is generally no connection between the perp and the victims, no history whatsoever. This is why serial killers can have such long runs. Generally in cases like this it takes a huge stroke of luck to crack the case. It was luck that resulted in the cracking of the Molly Tibbetts case. It was luck that ended Wayne William's run. It will likely take a lucky break to solve this case as well.
 
andreww said:
Random crimes are the hardest to solve, not because the criminal is any smarter, but simply because of the randomness of the crime. There is generally no connection between the perp and the victims, no history whatsoever. This is why serial killers can have such long runs. Generally in cases like this it takes a huge stroke of luck to crack the case. It was luck that resulted in the cracking of the Molly Tibbetts case. It was luck that ended Wayne William's run. It will likely take a lucky break to solve this case as well.
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I agree but what I was responding to was this killer must not be very smart.
 
andreww said:
Random crimes are the hardest to solve, not because the criminal is any smarter, but simply because of the randomness of the crime. There is generally no connection between the perp and the victims, no history whatsoever. This is why serial killers can have such long runs. Generally in cases like this it takes a huge stroke of luck to crack the case. It was luck that resulted in the cracking of the Molly Tibbetts case. It was luck that ended Wayne William's run. It will likely take a lucky break to solve this case as well.
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I agree 100 percent andreww.

They truly are the very hardest cases of all to solve.

LE cant even have a starting point to begin to know who the suspect may be.

If it is someone unknown to the victims the only hope we have that it will be solved is when they finally get the forensics back they will have a DNA profile that can be matched in CODIS.

Usually these type of criminals do have a criminal history.
 
human said:
As I said, it is a billion dollar company. They deal with fecal matter and turkeys all of the time.

Maybe the turkeys were grown in too much of an unsanitry condition. Maybe some kind of machimeey was on the fritz,

Hormel did not become a multinational company without knowing what they are doing. When dealing with animals and all of their diseases, there are bound to be issues.

One turkey that isn’t cleaned well enough could nasty up the whole batch.

I have to ask. Who in the heck eats raw turkey? I suppose people dom’t use proper cleaning techniques in the home.
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bbm
Pet food with raw turkey was linked to the outbreak previously. A Minnesota company earlier this year recalled pet food with the same strain of salmonella.
Jennie-O recalling ground turkey in salmonella outbreak
 
Does anyone have the link to the FB live the Sherrif had done a few weeks back? My search skills failing me this morning
 
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