AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[tiffkinsadder]

Any possibility exists concerning the commission of this crime. I’d like to move on to Who. We need to see the video of the suspicious vehicles. IMO.

The public needs something to work with. IMO.

 

[Celt1997]

We need to see the video of the suspicious vehicles. IMO.

If they are still interested in these vehicles, then I agree, at minimum, a still shot from the cameras. It may trigger someone's memory if they see the actual vehicle, and not a description or stock photo.

That being said, it is possible to figure out what camera took the photos/video of the vehicles (based on angles and other things in the shot), and that could put someone in danger.

 

[x_files]

They probably don't come with the intent to rape 2 teenage girls and set their bodies on fire, either. Or beat a 5 year so severely the child had to be hospitalized, or torture a 7 year old by holding his face in boiling water...but violent home invaders have done all those things...and much worse.

Part of the thrill kill mentality.

 

[JRW]

I considered the Jim shot trying to leave - but then how do we explain he was found INSIDE the residence? Unless the police saw evidence that the body had been dragged back inside - blood drag marks? Some other sort of drag marks? Then it would seem that Jim was found where he was shot, which was inside the front entry. When considering the louder gun shot, I questioned whether maybe the windows could have been open, rending some sound louder than others? Or the garage maybe?

My thought was he was shot as he was opening the door but before he left. Or maybe he heard Jayme yell as he opened the door and he turned around, and was shot inside the house but with the door open. Just my opinion but this would place him at the open door

 

[photographer4]

I'm really really disappointed that LE is not doing a better job on this. This person is outsmarting them, Wow. Small community, big populous plant, how hard can this be?

What more would you have them do?

 

[JRW]

Then why was the front door kicked and/or shot in?

It was just a theory. I was thinking the door may have been shot in the process of shooting James. Thats why I inquired about those who had studied the pics of the door. Is it obvious that the gunshots are on the outside of the door? There has been alot of misreporting in this story. Such as James was at the birthday and then he wasnt at the birthday party so it would be easy for the door to have been shot but not necessarily shot in and misreported. Again just my opinion. trying to think of all angles

 

[otto]

Otto, the Sheriff has said that the perp(s) were only in the house for a very short time. I believe the neighbour misread the time of the shots, it was likely 12:58 not 12:38, making the actual tome 12:51 when you adjust for the 7 minute clock discrepancy. This would make the first shots two minutes before the 911 call.

You might ask why would we doubt the neighbours testimony? Well the Sheriff has stated that this crime happened quickly, that it all went down in a couple of minutes. How would he know this? What type of timekeeping could he have that would allow him to discount the neighbour's testimony? The only possible answer would be that Denise's injuries were used to estimate the maximum amount of time between the second gunshot and the 911 call. Her injuries were obviously very serious, and the coroner would be able to give a pretty close estimation as to the maximum amount of time she could have maintained consciousness. In my opinion this estimate was a short amount of time, less than five minutes. So with that information LE can deduce that if the shots were fired at 12:31, there is no possible way that Denise could have called 911 at 12:53. The neighbour has to be mistaken.

Thank you! This makes sense. The neighbors would have a sense of whether 10 or 30 minutes passed between the shots and the arrival of police. It would be interesting to know whether they agree that they misread the time.

 

[Mom24]

An interesting look at home invasions. The more you read about them, the more I'm worried this may have been random.
Providence man recounts violent home invasion

 

[photographer4]

Thinking about why this happened at 1:00 AM, and how. First of all, I don't think it has a lot to do with Jennie-O except that they are a major employer in the town. The plant might be a link, but I don't believe this has anything to do with the salmonella outbreak or revenge. It has to do with Jayme. I think she was the target from the beginning. I think the kidnapper was not in the Closs family's circle, so he didn't have a chance to groom Jayme and maybe that's just not part of his fantasy. He may not be a total stranger, either. He had to find a way to take her, and knew she'd be at home in bed at 1:00 AM. He could easily figure out who her parents were and where she lived, just follow them. Once he knew her parents' names, he could find out what their cell phone numbers were and track them. This is where I think Jennie-O might fit in, or some other place that the mom or dad was regularly, somewhere that you might give out contact information that would be freely available within a particular group. Or, they could have sold stuff on Craigslist and used their cell phone as a contact. He may have tracked any of their phones, probably the parents and knew where they were at various times. Once he saw a phone at the Closs residence after, say, 11 PM, he knew they were in for the night.

What surprised me actually, was doing a FB search this morning - did you know that some schools have a FB page with photos of kids plastered all over it? I didn't see kids named in the photos or tagged, but... I did see a grandparent indicate her grandson was in a photo, and name him. It really made me think about how much info people post online that could give away more personal information than they may have intended to. Now someone looking at the particular FB page that I was looking at, can scan photos, and decide if there is a kid in that particular school of interest to them (for whatever reason)... they can then go to that school, observe that kid (recess) from a distance even, with no one the wiser. They could then learn the kid's name... find out other info (do they walk alone? in a group? take a bus? get picked up etc....). Where do they go after school? Home? Alone? A babysitter?.... Hmmm watch the house... who's around when.... what time do they seem to retire for the evening....

OMG its a nauseating thought! You'd think posting photos online was an innocent, harmless, fun thing... but its not! You just never know who is watching what page, for what reason... or what they might decide to do with whatever info they garner from whatever is posted. I'm not saying that this was how this particular crime went down, but it sure was an eyeopener to see the photos of all those kids posted to school fb pages, accessible by literally anyone with an internet connection and fb acct.

 

[JRW]

I can’t imagine James, or any other father, running out of the house with his family still inside. I think it’s clear that Denise and/or Jayme would have been alive at this point (911 call - somebody was), and there’s no way James is going to run away from trouble still happening for his family.

Unless the perp shoots Denise, grabs Jayme and runs out the front door, James runs to the front door to recover his daughter, and the perp turns and shoots him from outside while he is in the doorway. This would account for the second shot being louder, for the quick get away, and James being in the doorway. Not sure how the phone call would play out in this scenerio unless the perp then reentered the house for some reason and kicked Denises phone away from her. Definately my own opinion.

 

[photographer4]

I have learned to never criticize or underestimate the abilities of LE working any case.

I feel just like all LE they are diligently working on this case. They dont have to publicly tell outsiders what they are doing nor should they.

Imo we tend to be an impatient society who thinks all cases should be wrapped up quickly but in the real world of crime solving it just doesnt work that way many times.

I cant count the times over the years many assumed the police weren't doing anything at all... only to learn they had been working very hard every single day.

I think this may be a harder case to solve if they aren't finding any familiar link between the victims and the suspect.

I have no doubt the 20 investigators....which is still a high amount for one case......are continuing to investigate it thoroughly every single day.

This case is far from being cold. Fitzgerald just said recently that none of the forensic lab results have been returned.

Once that happens the momentum can quickly pick up.

Jmo

I'm hopeful that once the DNA comes back... that they're better able to connect the dots and hopefully narrow it down to a suspect list. I wonder how long it takes to get the forensics back?

 

[bizzle2]

My post already addresses all that. But I'll go a bit further...perhaps they couldn't get into a locked gun safe ? Perhaps they couldn't find any cash or expensive jewelry, perhaps they couldn't find drugs, perhaps they did find something that LE isn't aware of, or perhaps they simply didn't have to ransack the house because they immediately lost control of the victims.

Sorry, it just doesn't hold water for me.

Taking Jayme doesn't really fit either. There's no reason not to just shoot her. The logic about not wanting to fire another shot because the cops were on the way just doesn't make sense. If you are willing to bust in a door and kill two people then you aren't going to pause when it comes to shooting the kid. Nothing was subtle about this.

And I have trouble seeing how they would spend that much time looking for something to steal from the house and not leave any fingerprints or DNA.

Just doesn't add up.

 

[photographer4]

My thought was he was shot as he was opening the door but before he left. Or maybe he heard Jayme yell as he opened the door and he turned around, and was shot inside the house but with the door open. Just my opinion but this would place him at the open door

Hm.

 

[bizzle2]

Thank you! This makes sense. The neighbors would have a sense of whether 10 or 30 minutes passed between the shots and the arrival of police. It would be interesting to know whether they agree that they misread the time.

The neighbor have said they didn't even know anything happened until they woke up the next morning. So I don't think they knew when police got there.

 

[hoylea]

Has anyone seen the story from yesterday about Amanda Perrier? Perhaps the only connection is that they are both red haired girls and it says she's believed to be in WI, but I do recall someone saying that red hair is a sought after feature in trafficking.

Missing 16-year-old girl from Illinois believed to be in Wisconsin

(Edit to fix typo)

 

[JaneEyre]

Unless the perp shoots Denise, grabs Jayme and runs out the front door, James runs to the front door to recover his daughter, and the perp turns and shoots him from outside while he is in the doorway. This would account for the second shot being louder, for the quick get away, and James being in the doorway. Not sure how the phone call would play out in this scenerio unless the perp then reentered the house for some reason and kicked Denises phone away from her. Definately my own opinion.

Then how do you account for the 911 call 22 minutes later? And supposing one was still alive to make it 22 minutes later, who kicked the phone away from them?

It doesn’t add up.

 

[photographer4]

Well she would be alive if that was happening...

I'm not hoping that she isn't alive of course, more that someone isn't taunting her with the idea that no one has any idea where she is!

 

[JaneEyre]

Then how do you account for the 911 call 22 minutes later? And supposing one was still alive to make it 22 minutes later, who kicked the phone away from them?

It doesn’t add up.

And it seems to me like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I’m not sure where that gets us, other than spinning in circles.

 

[Celt1997]

Has anyone seen the story from yesterday about Amanda Perrier? Perhaps the only connection is that they are both red haired girls and it says she's believed to be in WI, but I do recall someone saying that red hair is a sought after feature in trafficking.

Missing 16-year-old girl from Illinois believed to be in Wisconsin

(Edit to fix typo)

I had not seen anything about that. Very little information on why they believe she is in Wisconsin.

 

[Mom24]

My thought was he was shot as he was opening the door but before he left. Or maybe he heard Jayme yell as he opened the door and he turned around, and was shot inside the house but with the door open. Just my opinion but this would place him at the open door

You may be on to something. From what I'm reading about home invasions, they are usually committed by more than one person and they use multiple means of entrance to the home. So while one is knocking on the door, another comes in through a side or back door. With that scenario it makes sense that James may have realized what was happening, tried to shut the door, but someone else came in through another means and James' attention was diverted.
Here's an article that talks about it.
Protecting Your Family from a Violent Home Invasion