AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[SassynOz]

It was great seeing Jayme’s face on National TV last night. I’m sure it brought attention to her from people who didn’t even know about the case.

 

[LVatty10]

Exactly right. But, I respectfully say, maybe some feel uncomfortable giving up their DNA for various reasons. They are hiding something not necessarily connected to the case, or they do not understand the process, or just think that's invasive into their lives. I would have to think about it too and be assured it would only be for this case and would not be put into some database that could be accessed by someone else at a later time.
Does anyone know how that works? How is my DNA protected?

To be clear, I’m not a criminal attorney. But, if asked, I would advise family/friends that if he/she voluntarily submits a DNA sample, it is fair to assume it will be kept on file in the “offender” database forever. The same would be true of a sample given in response to a warrant. It may depend somewhat on the state you are in and what leverage your attorney may have to negotiate for third party collection and comparison.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I haven’t posted about my theory and I don’t necessarily have one belief as to how it happened.

But the longer this goes on, the more I think it was a person without any real ties to the Closs family. I am thinking he saw Jayme somewhere, possibly Facebook or leaving dance class or via a friend of a friends kid, and became fixated on her.
Maybe he lives out of town and saw her one time while visiting family and is familiar with the area.

The more random a crime is, the more difficult it is to solve. Mollie Tibbetts murderer would likely not be in custody if not for the luck that he was caught on video. Why? Because he had no real connection to her and the attack seems to have been fueled by rage and sexual deviance. I think the degree of separation here between the perp(s) and Jayme is similar to that between Mollie and her rapist/murderer.

IMO the sexual deviance (hebephelia) was more of the driving factor in this case. Maybe the rage just came out and the guy shot James even though he hadn’t planned on doing so? I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy has kidnapped or attempted to kidnap before. There are soo many missing girls in this age bracket whose disappearances have never been solved.

In any event, we need something like the video in Mollies case to catch this SOB. What is that one piece of evidence that could nab him!? Is it identifying the tags on the black suv? Is it the results of DNA/forensics testing? Is it pings to a nearby cellphone tower? Idk but there has to be something!! Right? What evidence do you think would open the door to finding the perp(s)?

I think u could be right... if it’s truly random gonna be hard to catch..

I would think cell phone tower patterns over last 2 years ...in 100 mile radius.., look for pattern...odd patterns

Google search for Closs family last 5 years ..
Outside of family friends... somebody searching Jayme Closs 1 yr ago that’s age 18 to 50... why would they search that ?? Hell before this Crime why would anyone search jayme or family.

If it’s random that drove by house that’s scary. Don’t know how or if u find. Perp is good with Gun...says hunter or military... That’s a boatload of men in area or sourounding states. I think guy knew house and had shot that gun a lot before that night.. just a hunch.

 

[Jabarn]

Something else to consider in regard to time of the crime, is the perps schedule. If this was premeditated and planned, he/she had to do it when it was least likely for him/her to go unnoticed. Also, because this is an unusual time of night with very little in the area open, I would be curious to see who strolled through a convenient store or whatever was open at that time. I mean if it was preplanned, wouldnt they plan an alibi too?

I agree totally. Either the suspect, or suspects, is unemployed altogether, or didn’t have work on Monday.

What is hard for me to understand is why. I know plenty of options for the motive have been thrown out, so just reiterating that unknown factor.

I did get hooked up on the situation in SC yesterday, and while I am not a member of FB groups discussing this case, I do sometimes take a look at the posts on reddit, especially if there is something that makes me think, huh? and then I check it out.

I know some of you are following the leads through those forums.... and you never know where the firsts clues to what happened will come.

All that to say, I go back to web sleuthing starting with the Chandra Levy case and the very day BTK was caught- I got the first hint of it on a sleuthing website.

For this case, I get my information from the news, and articles that are shared here. Thanks, everyone. The motive is the missing piece to me, and without it, not sure what the investigators have.

 

[Lillymac]

To be clear, I’m not a criminal attorney. But, if asked, I would advise family/friends that if he/she voluntarily submits a DNA sample, it is fair to assume it will be kept on file in the “offender” database forever. The same would be true of a sample given in response to a warrant. It may depend somewhat on the state you are in and what leverage your attorney may have to negotiate for third party collection and comparison.

That's what I was afraid of. That would take some serious thought and lots of prayers for me. But, it would absolutely depend on the circumstances. To help in a case like this, I am sure I would do it.

 

[lonetraveler]

my guess is there is little to no DNA I think the perp wore gloves, and was very careful... doubt they rummaged through much.... probably went in with an agenda and carried it out quickly

I can visualize the perp opening the storm door, kicking the door open, shooting the father, shooting the mother and aiming the weapon at Jayme to make her go with him, catching the mother trying to dial 911, kicking the phone away from her and walking out the door with Jayme. With the exception of opening the storm door, I can't see where he would have touched anything except maybe Jayme.

 

[lonetraveler]

They could have taken Jayme without murdering the parents.

Family members have stated she was often alone waiting for the school bus. If the sole motive was kidnapping, one wouldn't take the risk of breaking and entering a home (with a father who is VERY likely armed) and committing a double homicide. They would have just curbed snatched her.

Unless the perp was so enraged that the parents were the reason they could not be with Jayme that they wanted to eliminate them and take Jayme.

 

[Jabarn]

I can visualize the perp opening the storm door, kicking the door open, shooting the father, shooting the mother and aiming the weapon at Jayme to make her go with him, catching the mother trying to dial 911, kicking the phone away from her and walking out the door with Jayme. With the exception of opening the storm door, I can't see where he would have touched anything except maybe Jayme.

That visualization is how I am leaning too. Because James (Jim) did not attend the birthday party due to work (media sources available in the start of each new thread here), in the beginning, I assumed he wasn’t home when the crime against Denise and her daughter went down, and they were spotted along the way home and tracked there.

With new information, it does look like he was home (again refer to the media links at the start of each thread), so it changed my original theory that he walked into a crime in progress against his family, and may have broken the door in himself.

Back to the confusion at the breach at the front door. On the pictures available and posted here, it does look either the perpetrator kicked in the door at the lock, causing the splintering, or a gun was shot to knock out the lock.

What that means, James could have been monitoring it from the inside, but didn’t answer the door (like is suggested by the 911 call log).

In all the media accounts of the door being riddled with bullet holes, I haven’t seen any mention if those holes were from the inside or outside of the door. It makes a difference in understanding the way the crime went down.

Still no motive, though.

 

[Trino]

The problem I have with Jayme as the target - and this has previously been discussed - is the perp could have taken her in a non-violent confrontation elsewhere.

The problem I have with Denise being the target is Jayme is a left-over.

I just don't think James was the main target, unless it was a Denise-James duo.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I can visualize the perp opening the storm door, kicking the door open, shooting the father, shooting the mother and aiming the weapon at Jayme to make her go with him, catching the mother trying to dial 911, kicking the phone away from her and walking out the door with Jayme. With the exception of opening the storm door, I can't see where he would have touched anything except maybe Jayme.

If perp wearing gloves he could open back door. Jayme door and still nothing left.
I hope to hell there’s footprints

I could see in and out in 2 to 3 minutes
Nothing of value left... if the sob doesn’t use cell phones...even worse. I pray sheriff has something.. either on 911 call or highway cam.

 

[Rubiconbob]

That visualization is how I am leaning too. Because James (Jim) did not attend the birthday party due to work (media sources available in the start of each new thread here), in the beginning, I assumed he wasn’t home when the crime against Denise and her daughter went down, and they were spotted along the way home and tracked there.

With new information, it does look like he was home (again refer to the media links at the start of each thread), so it changed my original theory that he walked into a crime in progress against his family, and may have broken the door in himself.

Back to the confusion at the breach at the front door. On the pictures available and posted here, it does look either the perpetrator kicked in the door at the lock, causing the splintering, or a gun was shot to knock out the lock.

What that means, James could have been monitoring it from the inside, but didn’t answer the door (like is suggested by the 911 call log).

In all the media accounts of the door being riddled with bullet holes, I haven’t seen any mention if those holes were from the inside or outside of the door. It makes a difference in understanding the way the crime went down.

Still no motive, though.

If holes look like puncture holes then that’s where bullets came from... other side will splinter outward. It looks like outside shot.. I think

 

[lonetraveler]

Prolly been mentioned by some previous posters, but one reason Jayme could have been taken -- if she wasn't the original target -- is that the perp either ran out of bullets or his/her gun malfunctioned. In that scenario, the perp would likely have had to take Jayme in order that she couldn't ID him/her, particularly if the perp knew 911 had been called.

Perfect scenario for that theory would be that a double barreled shotgun loaded with two shells was used.

 

[GordianKnot]

I wish we knew whether or not the Closs' had any firearms that are unaccounted for/missing. Anybody seen anything in MSM addressing this?

 

[Jabarn]

If perp wearing gloves he could open back door. Jayme door and still nothing left.
I hope to hell there’s footprints

I could see in and out in 2 to 3 minutes
Nothing of value left... if the sob doesn’t use cell phones...even worse. I pray sheriff has something.. either on 911 call or highway cam.

But the damage to the front door- it looked to me in the pics as wedge damage, but the investigators have already figured that out.

The sliding glass door... is it confirmed which room it entered? Most sliding glass doors are off the kitchen or dining room, but in older homes, where there may have been some remodeling done over the years, who could know which room it entered, without a direct statement from LE.

So many times in this case, I feel it’s all understood, a particular clue, but, in the end, it turns out the clue was misleading, or inaccurate.

 

[pepper 34]

Either he had a plan for her prior to the abduction, and that involved being held captive, or he didn't.

He took her from the murder scene. If he didn't have a plan, her body should have been found somewhere in the roughly 20 mile radius of her home.

Her body has not been found. There has been a thorough search by SAR professionals? ... so ... he had a plan prior to abducting her that included a place to put her?

He was clever enough to get away with it. Commendable.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of the word commendable and the actions that don't deserve the praise, imo. The killer was the only person who was able to plan ahead. He approached a home somewhere around 12:30 am where a man who had been working all day was most likely in bed or getting ready to go to bed. His daughter and wife also were no doubt in bed. All 3 were totally unprepared for anything but a good night's sleep and would have no idea anything out of the ordinary was about to happen. The killer probably shot James through his own front door. Kicked the door in and killed his wife who was no doubt trying to protect her young daughter while absorbing the horror of her husband having just been killed in front of her. The killer had the plan, he had the weapon, he had the element of surprise on his side... he had everything on his side. Once the parents were dying or dead he then had to grab a 13 year old girl who must have been in shock by that point and get her into a car and drive away. Commendable? It's just shocking, unexpected, explosive, brute force literally smashing into the safety and security of a private home. Nothing commendable or clever about it imo.

 

[Jabarn]

I wish we knew whether or not the Closs' had any firearms that are unaccounted for/missing. Anybody seen anything in MSM addressing this?

I’ll add, whether anything at all was stolen.

 

[Randazzo]

I wish we knew whether or not the Closs' had any firearms that are unaccounted for/missing. Anybody seen anything in MSM addressing this?

I doubt it. Probably only the family would know this anyway. Are you thinking robbery as a motive?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Yep. Thousands and thousands and thousands.
Whether I agree with it or not is moot but the reality is that 54% of gun owners ADMIT they don’t lock their loaded gun in any way. Not even the safety lock.

That’s especially true in rural communities where guns are a way of life.

 

[GordianKnot]

I doubt it. Probably only the family would know this anyway. Are you thinking robbery as a motive?

That's a negative, Randazzo...IMO, robbery was not the motive. I'm interested to know whether or not there are missing firearms from the home because if so, it could be the murder weapon, which would make the theory of the crime different, again JMO.

 

[1987]

If holes look like puncture holes then that’s where bullets came from... other side will splinter outward. It looks like outside shot.. I think

I have seen no door pics that look like was shot at all.moo. I did see door pics where part of the door is visable but no whole door or even a part enough to say shot or not. there was a example posted here that was a white door but it was just a example.