AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Rubiconbob]

2 more weeks have passed and I'm gonna beat the same drum again. Release the 9-1-1 call. It may or may not have something on it that will jar something, be recognizable to someone, or advance the case, but if nothing else it will get people thinking about it again. Its going cold and people are moving on and its terrible. I feel so bad for this poor girl.

I’m like u... very curious and hopeful that it helps as it’s one of few clues.

I think sherif is holding that card till perp is close to net .... if it’s just jayme screaming doesn’t help anything really.

If it’s perp yelling get damn shoes were leaving. Could help if voice distinct.
I have feeling it was in pocket or under blanket that causing the lack of volume or clarity. The perp likely finds phone after call back and is out of house in 30 seconds later.

Something odd is dispatcher saying just heard yelling ... if she could make out yelling vs scream better than nothing.

Think sherif has 3/4 pieces of evidence
That’s about it. He’s smart to hold it. Public can thank him later.

 

[andreww]

I looked at Jennie-O's current job offerings and employee reviews and it does seem common for this company to require a significant amount of overtime and shift work. Many of the listings clearly state 40+ hour a week with over time required. Some list 12 hour shifts.

I don't think the amount he worked was abnormal or "excessive" for this company in this town. Seems like it was the norm.

It was about a month before thanksgiving at a turkey plant. I doubt he was working those hours year round.

 

[KLM6]

Clearing the house is standard police procedure. What makes me think that the suggestion of suicide came from outside or from the car is that if he had been close enough, or had passed by James, he would have realized that there was no gun. He's going to a rural house, likely expecting a domestic disturbance, and he sees what appears to be a body at the front door. Suicide is a natural first conclusion. Not sure why we are even discussing it, suicide was off the table within a few minutes.

Im discussing it because its my opinion that its still possible. Im here to discuss my opinion, not persuade or dissuade anyone of theirs.

 

[cluciano63]

Im discussing it because its my opinion that its still possible. Im here to discuss my opinion, not persuade or dissuade anyone of theirs.

What I am confused about is what could be suspicious in the idea that he thought suicide at first? I could see if he said murder first, then later we heard, no,it was suicide. But what kind of clue are you thinking of if something was “seen” by this first officer and then later edited out for some reason? I guess I am not seeing anything sinister in thinking suicide first, when I might if they said murder first, then changed it.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I looked at Jennie-O's current job offerings and employee reviews and it does seem common for this company to require a significant amount of overtime and shift work. Many of the listings clearly state 40+ hour a week with over time required. Some list 12 hour shifts.

I don't think the amount he worked was abnormal or "excessive" for this company in this town. Seems like it was the norm.

Thanks for looking I’m guessing something to do with birds coming in they need meat to stores by x no of days. With overtime rules you’d think they wouldn’t want...oh well...

I still see parents making decent money for that town...on house that’s not big...

Didn’t know if James/Denise had hobbies that took up a lot of there income ...

Does anyone know if house paid for / 2nd mortgage loan anything ... asking ... looking for reasons ?? Financial problems looks like dead end...they lived within their means?

 

[rosesfromangels]

2 more weeks have passed and I'm gonna beat the same drum again. Release the 9-1-1 call. It may or may not have something on it that will jar something, be recognizable to someone, or advance the case, but if nothing else it will get people thinking about it again. Its going cold and people are moving on and its terrible. I feel so bad for this poor girl.

It may be too gruesome to release, and weighing that against what would be audibly useful, they decided not to.

Opinion and speculation only

 

[rosesfromangels]

I looked at Jennie-O's current job offerings and employee reviews and it does seem common for this company to require a significant amount of overtime and shift work. Many of the listings clearly state 40+ hour a week with over time required. Some list 12 hour shifts.

I don't think the amount he worked was abnormal or "excessive" for this company in this town. Seems like it was the norm.

If it’s manual labor, those work hours sound atrocious, and potentially dangerous.
*amateur opinion and speculation* only.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I've thought about this too but I don't think it's the reason. Most people don't change the sound settings on their phones, so just dialing 911 would likely have been loud. Much louder than whispering into the phone. I think someone dialed 911, dropped or tossed the phone, and it took the perp(s) almost a minute to find it to hang it up.

I’m stumped here too...jayme Denise coulda dialed 911. Perp knocks phone down hall and 1 ring later it picks up... guessing.. I don’t know... but if call goes through does it not stay there ... meaning perp stopped Call. Too bad if he’s wearing gloves...

 

[stephlovescheese]

We need LE input. When a person dies instantly, the body basically freezes in place (except for falling of course). There are expressions left on their faces, their hand stays in position if they were holding something, even if that something falls away, etc. The officer didnt just walk up and automatically assume James killed himself simply because murders dont happen in Barron County. If thats the case, Ill throw in my towel right now and give up all hope on these officers because that is not how LE officers react. Something at that scene made him speculate suicide or he never would have said it. mho.

Still catching up here...i wonder if he speculated suicide due to the nature of the wound? Perhaps at first appearance, it could have looked like a suicide. That being said, i’m definitely not a believer of this theory. JMO.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I have questions about the way the Call Log is created.
How does the information from each officer get entered into the computer? Is someone live at the scene entering information? Does all the info come into a central database. Is it proof read and corrected?
My son, retired lieutenant Dallas, TX PD, is coming for Thanksgiving today, so I'm going to talk to him about this. Any questions, let me know and I will ask him.

The 911 incident handler at the dispatch center enters those log items. They are merely a terse note of what the situation was and a log of requests and actions that took place, units involved, etc. It is not a substitute for the individual reports and notes of the various personnel working the incident. All of it is stored in a database. This is how dispatchers are able to advise officers sent on a call of prior incidents involving a person or at the address they are going to.

 

[SausagePizza]

If you were appointed to take over this case, knowing what you know already since the crime was committed - what would your next steps be?

 

[Rubiconbob]

We need LE input. When a person dies instantly, the body basically freezes in place (except for falling of course). There are expressions left on their faces, their hand stays in position if they were holding something, even if that something falls away, etc. The officer didnt just walk up and automatically assume James killed himself simply because murders dont happen in Barron County. If thats the case, Ill throw in my towel right now and give up all hope on these officers because that is not how LE officers react. Something at that scene made him speculate suicide or he never would have said it. mho.

If u read the last 36 months in Barron County... no of suicides... my guess and only a guess is that would start to think that..by default... plus if there’s significant temple entry point...?

 

[KLM6]

What I am confused about is what could be suspicious in the idea that he thought suicide at first? I could see if he said murder first, then later we heard, no,it was suicide. But what kind of clue are you thinking of if something was “seen” by this first officer and then later edited out for some reason? I guess I am not seeing anything sinister in thinking suicide first, when I might if they said murder first, then changed it.

Bloodstain splatter, placement of the wound, placement/assessment of the body, something that originally triggered the "suicide attempt" alert, assessment of the surroundings, facial expression, any number of things. He could have easily just said we have a man down and left it at that. Imho something gave him a clue it could be suicide. He did not just immediately assume that, imo, unless he had reason to believe it. Also, some are answering their own questions by asking me questions as if Im stupid for thinking this is possible.....why would he commit suicide at the door? Idk, why did the officer assume at first that he did? If Barron County assumes every death they arrive on is a suicide for no reason, they might need some retraining. moo.

 

[cluciano63]

Are we sure James had just the one job? Jmo not many jobs offer 20+ hrs of OT enough so that it would be regular.

 

[cluciano63]

Bloodstain splatter, placement of the wound, placement/assessment of the body, something that originally triggered the "suicide attempt" alert, assessment of the surroundings, facial expression, any number of things. He could have easily just said we have a man down and left it at that. Imho something gave him a clue it could be suicide. He did not just immediately assume that, imo, unless he had reason to believe it. Also, some are answering their own questions by asking me questions as if Im stupid for thinking this is possible.....why would he commit suicide at the door? Idk, why did the officer assume at first that he did? If Barron County assumes every death they arrive on is a suicide for no reason, they might need some retraining. moo.

I am not wording myself very well. I guess what I mean is, switching from suicide to murder as an impression seems far less controversial than the opposite would have been.

 

[bizzle2]

Im sorry but I have to disagree. I dont believe these officers did disregard homicide at all, because even though they called it a suicide at first, they continued to take precaution and didnt immediately charge into the house. They also advised they were "clearing" the house which means they suspected something wasnt right. To say they havent seen a murder so they wouldnt react as if it was a murder isnt correct at all, imo.

I do think the officers said suicide first for two reasons:
1. Suicide is far more common than murder
2. They only saw one body on it's own
(And, possibly, but we don't know this so it is speculation)
3. Head wound, likely from close range

I'd also add that it is still SOP to clear the house even if they think it was suicide. Could be children inside who need assistance, and they'd still need to verify their initial diagnosis of suicide.

A few other things I'd note about the call log relating to suicide:
- They never said it was a suicide for sure, just that it appeared to be a suicide initially. The two phrases used in the call log are "possible suicide attempt" and "apparent suicide", which leave open the possibility of something else.
- The kicked in door (which would obviously be an indication of a crime) and multiple rounds (another indication it wasn't suicide) are noted after the two mentions of suicide, but before they went in to clear the house. So by the time they were clearing the house it is likely they were starting to think something more sinister happened.

 

[ACG2x]

2 more weeks have passed and I'm gonna beat the same drum again. Release the 9-1-1 call. It may or may not have something on it that will jar something, be recognizable to someone, or advance the case, but if nothing else it will get people thinking about it again. Its going cold and people are moving on and its terrible. I feel so bad for this poor girl.

I understand the logic behind releasing the 911 call but I still don't agree unless there is some audible voice on it from the perp that could be used to identify them. It's been widely rumored that on the call you can actually hear a gunshot which would be Denise being murdered. If the FBI audibility experts can't discern anything from the call, then there is little to no benefit to release it to the public because we sure aren't going to be able to figure it out any better.

I just think that releasing the call is a zero sum game because all it will do is get the everyone with a speaker saying "Aha! At ___ you can clearly hear ____" and making connections that aren't there thinking they broke the case. It won't get people thinking about it in the right away. LE also could be not releasing it because it contains audio of the aforementioned gunshot and I really don't have much interest in hearing someone be murdered.

 

[bizzle2]

If you were appointed to take over this case, knowing what you know already since the crime was committed - what would your next steps be?

I'd be poring over every video of a public place or with a view of the road within 10 miles of that house between 12:30am-1:30am.

It doesn't sound like they have much to go on. So I'd want to know everyone who was in that area. Identify every car. Every person. Figure out why they were there.

They've surely already done something like this to an extent, but I'd be reviewing it all again.

 

[bellyup]

Thanks for looking I’m guessing something to do with birds coming in they need meat to stores by x no of days. With overtime rules you’d think they wouldn’t want...oh well..I still see parents making decent money for that town...on house that’s not big...
Didn’t know if James/Denise had hobbies that took up a lot of there income ...
Does anyone know if house paid for / 2nd mortgage loan anything ... asking ... looking for reasons ?? Financial problems looks like dead end...they lived within their means?

I think they were getting by financially. We've seen that there was debt they had but it was average. The pay scale at Jennie-O is fair and just based on how they word their job openings they make it really clear that they expect a lot of hard work for the pay they do offer. Their benefits are mediocre. I think the house was likely a dream home for them but within their means.

It wouldn't take expensive hobbies to make a week a financial stretch. Ie; I believe some weeks were and some weren't in the Closs house. Home maintenance, dance, cross country, medical bills were likely taking up anything that was "extra".

I do think "financial problems" is a dead end. They did live within their means and there's no indication that money was an ongoing struggle. I don't find it odd or indicative of anything at all that a man at his age works 60-80 hours a week in a factory. Around here, that's very very common. Especially when there aren't a lot of jobs in the area.

 

[KLM6]

I am not wording myself very well. I guess what I mean is, switching from suicide to murder as an impression seems far less controversial than the opposite would have been.

Im not sure what you are asking. My opinion is that it appeared to the cop for some reason to be a suicide but the one thing lacking, which they would soon find out, is the weapon. Also, Its currently listed as homicide, not murder, also a difference in meanings.