AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[KLM6]

I do think the officers said suicide first for two reasons:
1. Suicide is far more common than murder
2. They only saw one body on it's own
(And, possibly, but we don't know this so it is speculation)
3. Head wound, likely from close range

I'd also add that it is still SOP to clear the house even if they think it was suicide. Could be children inside who need assistance, and they'd still need to verify their initial diagnosis of suicide.

A few other things I'd note about the call log relating to suicide:
- They never said it was a suicide for sure, just that it appeared to be a suicide initially. The two phrases used in the call log are "possible suicide attempt" and "apparent suicide", which leave open the possibility of something else.
- The kicked in door (which would obviously be an indication of a crime) and multiple rounds (another indication it wasn't suicide) are noted after the two mentions of suicide, but before they went in to clear the house. So by the time they were clearing the house it is likely they were starting to think something more sinister happened.

I agree with you. But something gave the appearance. It wasnt just a basic assumption, imo.

 

[andreww]

I've thought about this too but I don't think it's the reason. Most people don't change the sound settings on their phones, so just dialing 911 would likely have been loud. Much louder than whispering into the phone. I think someone dialed 911, dropped or tossed the phone, and it took the perp(s) almost a minute to find it to hang it up.

Use the evidence we have. The call only has a commotion that sounds to be coming from another room. So the intruder is a distance from the caller, making noise. This suggests to me that the caller has ample opportunity to whisper in to the phone. The fact that they didn't tells me that they were unable to, likely due to horrific injuries.

 

[bellyup]

Are we sure James had just the one job? Jmo not many jobs offer 20+ hrs of OT enough so that it would be regular.

That's assuming that James was being paid OT. With 27 years at the company I am going to bet he was salaried management. Which would mean no over time pay required but they can demand hours out of you. You do it to keep your job because there isn't exactly a ton of other options in the area.

 

[Rubiconbob]

If you were appointed to take over this case, knowing what you know already since the crime was committed - what would your next steps be?

If possible get every movement/ text / email from James / jayme / Denise in last 36 months (no idea how hard that is.. guessing not easy.). Look through that info...that raises a flag...18-50 male.

If possible get every cell phone that hits the local towers Sunday night... was one turned off..that pinged back on at 2 am... one that usually hits but didn’t.

Last 5 years of google Facebook search for Jayme Closs. Anything that wasn’t teacher / fellow student IP address. See why..

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

The "possible suicide attempt" came not more than a few minutes of arriving on scene. Based on the reading of the call log the observation of the officer (329) of a possible suicide attempt had to be from some distance from James because it would be a little over a minute later when another officer (325) makes the observation of multiple rounds spent which means the officers were much closer to James at that point. If there were multiple visible rounds but Denise was not visible from where the officers found James (i.e. in another room) then it would be a very good bet at the time that they were not dealing with a possible suicide with respect to James. It seems from the next entry 1 minute later where yet another officer (317) requests the Emergency Response Team (tactical team) that suicide was no longer the operative situation (at least with respect to James) as you don't call in such a team for a suicide as the event is already over. That the log doesn't reflect a change until later is irrelevant as the actions and activities indicate that law enforcement was working the situation differently.

Also, at that time around the initial assessment no processing of the crime scene occurred, no analysis of the crime scene occurred. They hadn't even cleared the house, let alone found Denise at that point. They wouldn't be able to absolutely rule out a murder-suicide until they could be certain that there were no guns found. That couldn't be done until the scene was processed and photographed and some forensic mapping was done before they could move the bodies or items with evidence on them to see if a gun was under any of them.

We don't know what the situation was with Denise, whether she was shot multiple times or not. For example, if Denise had only one wound, or only one obvious wound, law enforcement wouldn't be able to know just from simple observation whether murder-suicide was still on the table - with Denise being the shooter and a firearm being under her or under something else that couldn't be moved yet.

So, all in all, I wouldn't put too much stock in an initial observation (from a distance) as the log reflects two hours after the initial observation that they were indeed dealing with a homicide.

That's a good analysis, and exactly what I think happened. But it only addresses the first fact I mentioned. It doesn't address:

* Sheriff says the deaths of Denise and James Closs are ruled homicides, because both died of gunshot wounds and no gun was found on the scene. I can't remember the exact quote, but it was a bit strange the way the Sheriff worded it.

* Sheriff's Department says "this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene."

It's the three things together that really confound me. Trying to think of something that would explain all three facts, I came up w/ a possibility, though I acknowledge it's a stretch - and one I don't expect happened: a suicide note at the scene.

 

[ACG2x]

I do think the officers said suicide first for two reasons:
1. Suicide is far more common than murder
2. They only saw one body on it's own
(And, possibly, but we don't know this so it is speculation)
3. Head wound, likely from close range

I'd also add that it is still SOP to clear the house even if they think it was suicide. Could be children inside who need assistance, and they'd still need to verify their initial diagnosis of suicide.

A few other things I'd note about the call log relating to suicide:
- They never said it was a suicide for sure, just that it appeared to be a suicide initially. The two phrases used in the call log are "possible suicide attempt" and "apparent suicide", which leave open the possibility of something else.
- The kicked in door (which would obviously be an indication of a crime) and multiple rounds (another indication it wasn't suicide) are noted after the two mentions of suicide, but before they went in to clear the house. So by the time they were clearing the house it is likely they were starting to think something more sinister happened.

Your first point hits the nail on the head. Suicide is way more common than homicide when there is evidence of a gunshot. In fact, according to nationwide 2016 stats suicide is twice as more likely than homicide in those situations. This would be especially true in Barron County which had not had a murder reported since before 2002. There have been suicides in Barron County - from 2009 to 2013 a suicide rate of 13 people per 100,000 was reported.

It's highly likely none of the responding officers had ever even seen a real murder scene so it's natural that their first assumption, even given all the circumstances especially the gunshot wound on James, would be suicide.

 

[Irmese]

Your post flags a niggling question I have had about their finances, and potential motive.

Why was James working 60-80 hours a week? I understand being a go-getter and wanting to provide and save for retirement, but that sounds like *alot* of hours for a turkey plant.

Just dwelling on this, as it really stands out for me. 60-80 hours a week is common place in certain professions, but generally not this type of role or industry.
Why the excessive hours?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I don't know if it was typical or not, but I imagine in October it might not be unusual to have lots of OT at a turkey plant. It would certainly be something good to examine.

 

[doktor57]

Does anyone have any info on the home invasion that occurred in St. Charles, MN., on the 18th? MO sounds familiar...

 

[andreww]

I agree with you. But something gave the appearance. It wasnt just a basic assumption, imo.

Um, the dead body? The cop has to check in at every point, stating what he see's. Look at the time of that entry, he hasn't investigated anything. Saying that it might be a suicide informs the dispatcher to request EMS. He could have just as easily said murder, but he had nothing to indicate that either.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

If the vehicles shown in the picture were in the area around the incident, were they shown leaving Barron...Did they pass the casino or did the vehicle leave in the opposite direction? At that time of early morning there shouldn’t have been much traffic. Have those vehicles been ruled out? If so I’m hoping another vehicle was seen.

I asked awhile ago if you guys thought she was taken out the front or back. If the front, I’m thinking they would have had to step near or over James. If there was blood on the floor that was walked through. Or Jayme’s hair on James, near the door etc. If she was taken out the back, I hope Trace dogs were used. I know search dogs were used, I’m saying well trained (handler as well) Trace dogs, more than once.

If the vechiles weren’t seen leaving, as far as we know, maybe she is in the area.

 

[bizzle2]

Im not sure what you are asking. My opinion is that it appeared to the cop for some reason to be a suicide but the one thing lacking, which they would soon find out, is the weapon. Also, Its currently listed as homicide, not murder, also a difference in meanings.

Murder is a type of homicide.

They won't list it as anything other than homicide until they know more details about what exactly happened.

 

[KLM6]

If u read the last 36 months in Barron County... no of suicides... my guess and only a guess is that would start to think that..by default... plus if there’s significant temple entry point...?

Default assumption by law enforcement is risking their life. I cant agree that was the case. Im sorry.

Um, the dead body? The cop has to check in at every point, stating what he see's. Look at the time of that entry, he hasn't investigated anything. Saying that it might be a suicide informs the dispatcher to request EMS. He could have just as easily said murder, but he had nothing to indicate that either.

He could have also said we have a man dow, and not determined it all.

 

[ACG2x]

I don't know if it was typical or not, but I imagine in October it might not be unusual to have lots of OT at a turkey plant. It would certainly be something good to examine.

The most popular turkey producer in the area and it was the month before Thanksgiving. I think you are right that it starts and stops there. Mandatory OT at a turkey plant in October is like mandatory OT at H&R Block in March before tax time. Comes with the territory.

 

[bellyup]

This would be especially true in Barron County which had not had a murder reported since before 2002.

To me this lends more credibility to the theory that this was personal and targeted.

 

[ACG2x]

To me this lends more credibility to the theory that this was personal and targeted.

Agreed 100%. I've thought since this happened that it was a targeted crime. The only questions remaining are why was the Closs family targeted and what was the ultimate goal of the crime? Was it to simply abduct Jayme and take her? Was it related to the parents and Jayme happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

To me, it's highly unlikely that a perp just happened to be cruising rural Barron County WI around 1 AM on an early Monday morning and thought hey I'll go up to that house and kill whoever lives there. Since nothing was taken beyond Jayme, home robbery seems extremely unlikely as well.

I don't know and keep flipping back and forth on who the targets were but I am convinced one or more members of the Closs family were the targets.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I understand the logic behind releasing the 911 call but I still don't agree unless there is some audible voice on it from the perp that could be used to identify them. It's been widely rumored that on the call you can actually hear a gunshot which would be Denise being murdered. If the FBI audibility experts can't discern anything from the call, then there is little to no benefit to release it to the public because we sure aren't going to be able to figure it out any better.

I just think that releasing the call is a zero sum game because all it will do is get the everyone with a speaker saying "Aha! At ___ you can clearly hear ____" and making connections that aren't there thinking they broke the case. It won't get people thinking about it in the right away. LE also could be not releasing it because it contains audio of the aforementioned gunshot and I really don't have much interest in hearing someone be murdered.

Widely rumored you hear a gunshot??
If the gunshot is audible wouldn’t the dispatcher immediately say to responding officer... be aware shots fired ??

That gun was loud af. I would think if it was on call we would know...

you could be right... and I agree.. wouldn’t want to hear.

 

[Bugurl747]

I'd be poring over every video of a public place or with a view of the road within 10 miles of that house between 12:30am-1:30am.

It doesn't sound like they have much to go on. So I'd want to know everyone who was in that area. Identify every car. Every person. Figure out why they were there.

They've surely already done something like this to an extent, but I'd be reviewing it all again.

They are.


11/19/2018
"Fitzgerald said on Thursday that the team are following up on leads and watching CCTV from the area as well as reviewing all digital evidence.

He added that they are partnering with the FBI and DCI agents nearby and across the U.S.

About 80 surveillance videos were collected initially from businesses and other locations, according to Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald. "

Wisconsin police ask hunters for help as search continues for missing Jayme Closs | Daily Mail Online

 

[cluciano63]

Did James really work that many hours? Or did his relatives get that impression, i.e maybe not seeing much of him? Not sure it matters really, unless for some unlikely reason he was getting the overtime that some nut job wanted and was killed over it, which is...ridiculous.

It may just have been a comment that all James really does is go to work, meaning what motive could anyone have against him. Jmo

 

[bizzle2]

I agree with you. But something gave the appearance. It wasnt just a basic assumption, imo.

I just think you are reading too much into it. Cops are humans. They make basic assumptions just like everyone else. Based on the history of incidents like this in the area it would be natural to assume suicide when you see a dead body. Most of the time it is.

 

[human]

That's assuming that James was being paid OT. With 27 years at the company I am going to bet he was salaried management. Which would mean no over time pay required but they can demand hours out of you. You do it to keep your job because there isn't exactly a ton of other options in the area.

It is non union so who knows what the working conditions are. There are no work rules in the US except there has to be a toilet break every four hours someone works.

Anything else such as lunch, overtime, coffee breaks, are megotiated by unions for employees. Otherwise, one is totally at the mercy of the company.

I imagine finding people to do that job is not easy. So maybe he could work those hours because of labor shortage.

Maybe he was saving up for a fun family vacation or an RV or a new house. Who knows.