SavageMark, that is a good point. Thinking back to my youth and being that age I might not have come forward with pertinent information that wasn't physical, hard evidence (gun, keys, etc.) either. The fear of punishment would be a great deterrent for 15-18 year-olds. After nearly 20 years it would be great if some people would come forward and discuss what they saw/heard even if they don't think it is critical.
AL AL - J.B. Beasley, 17, & Tracie Hawlett, 17, Ozark, 31 July 1999 #3
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TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #3- Latest: Love Never Fails
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SavageMark, that is a good point. Thinking back to my youth and being that age I might not have come forward with pertinent information that wasn't physical, hard evidence (gun, keys, etc.) either. The fear of punishment would be a great deterrent for 15-18 year-olds. After nearly 20 years it would be great if some people would come forward and discuss what they saw/heard even if they don't think it is critical.
SHINED Rabbit
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Just received confirmation of a witness statement from a girl who saw them talking to Bookie at the Headland gas station, and tells OPD she heard the girls say that they were frightened by “two shirtless guys”.
Bulldog23
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Thank you, SHINED RABBIT. I can't help but to believe this is an important piece of the puzzle. Does anyone have any knowledge of OPD ever pursuing this lead? I wonder if it was even checked out. I think that sometimes we assume that because ABI and FBI were involved, that all leads should have been checked, but usually ABI and FBI are acting primarily in a supportive fashion, and it falls to the lead agency (OPD in this case) to check out the leads. This part of the investigation would have to involve agencies outside of OPD since the "following" incident didn't happen in the city limits. (Headland PD, DCSO) I wonder if this was where the ball was dropped.
CoolJ
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Frightened by two shirtless guys on the night they were executed.
I would say that is relevant.
So we can deduce that these two guys were strangers to J.B. and Tracey since they refer to them as "two shirtless guys" and not by specific names. Which would lead me to conclude that the directions were not provided by these two guys as well.
CoolJ, I think it is highly relevant! Bulldog, interagency cooperation was mostly lacking in 1999 as 9/11 tragically exposed and as you point out multiple agencies would/should have been involved. Those two shirtless guys could have come from Dothan, Haleburg, Ozark, Tumbleton, Abbeville, etc. but I still feel finding the maps author(s) is a great place to start.
somequestions
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I know I am probably the odd person out here, but if someone writes a map for someone else the idea is for the individual reading the map to find the destination.
It is written on here that the girls may have possibly went to a party in Skipperville, AL before ending up at the Ozark, AL Big Little gas station. So why were they not kidnapped earlier on the way from Headland to Skipperville or from Skipperville to Ozark, AL?
So the theory would have to be that the "two shirtless guys" drove around following J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett after they stopped at the Headland, AL gas station along with stopping wherever they stopped before eventually kidnapping them later, presumably by stopping them while they were driving home after leaving the Big Little gas station in Ozark, AL. That sounds very confusing.
I am not a geographic profiler, but I have read enough to know that it is difficult enough to determine what an individual will do when they know locations and where they are going. I cannot even try to figure out how someone could give another person a napkin with confusing directions and be able to know they will end up at a given location that is different from the location the individual was looking for initially. In summary, that is what makes J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett's case so interesting.
It is written on here that the girls may have possibly went to a party in Skipperville, AL before ending up at the Ozark, AL Big Little gas station. So why were they not kidnapped earlier on the way from Headland to Skipperville or from Skipperville to Ozark, AL?
So the theory would have to be that the "two shirtless guys" drove around following J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett after they stopped at the Headland, AL gas station along with stopping wherever they stopped before eventually kidnapping them later, presumably by stopping them while they were driving home after leaving the Big Little gas station in Ozark, AL. That sounds very confusing.
I am not a geographic profiler, but I have read enough to know that it is difficult enough to determine what an individual will do when they know locations and where they are going. I cannot even try to figure out how someone could give another person a napkin with confusing directions and be able to know they will end up at a given location that is different from the location the individual was looking for initially. In summary, that is what makes J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett's case so interesting.
In regard to these shirtless guys, I think what were dealing with is like most things with this case, third hand information at best. There's no specific location mentioned where this occurred and it's not clear, at least to me, if they were in or out of the car when this happened. There's no mention of anyone seeing the guys in the area of the store in headland as you might expect if they were following them. Apparently the description of this incident was overheard by a witness but the one being told the story has no recollection of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the story was total fabrication.
killarney rose
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I remember my teen days of cruising around. There were always those times you would meet a couple of jerks like the shirtless guys.
I just don't see them accosting and kidnapping the girls after they left the Big Little. Why not on that long, dark stretch of road between the party and Ozark?
This happened to my sister and me once. We had these creepy guys start following us from Bonifay to Geneva. Dark deserted backroad, before cell phones. We were in a VW and couldn't outrun them. We pulled up in someone's yard and stayed till they were gone.very frightening.
I just don't see them accosting and kidnapping the girls after they left the Big Little. Why not on that long, dark stretch of road between the party and Ozark?
This happened to my sister and me once. We had these creepy guys start following us from Bonifay to Geneva. Dark deserted backroad, before cell phones. We were in a VW and couldn't outrun them. We pulled up in someone's yard and stayed till they were gone.very frightening.
LR1, I tend to agree with you. Previously the only report of the shirtless boys was from Jacqui who was told about the incident from another person but Shined Rabbit has received verification of a witness statement supporting the incident so I feel more inclined to believe it occurred. However, I think consideration should also be given to the girls ages, as teenage girls tend to be overly dramatic, so their retelling of the event may be overly dramatic as well.
Perhaps the shirtless boys backed off as the girls approached the Headland gas station with street lights and potential witnesses. Then again it doesn't make logical sense for the shirtless boys to first harass the girls out in dark, remote areas of the country and then follow them into Ozark, with more lighting and more potential witnesses. If they intended the girls harm why not do it in a remote area?
Perhaps the shirtless boys backed off as the girls approached the Headland gas station with street lights and potential witnesses. Then again it doesn't make logical sense for the shirtless boys to first harass the girls out in dark, remote areas of the country and then follow them into Ozark, with more lighting and more potential witnesses. If they intended the girls harm why not do it in a remote area?
Bulldog23
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Well, if I were investigating- and I sincerely hope someone cares enough to still be investigating- I would want to speak with the young lady who heard JB say this (If she really exists, LR1), see if anyone could corroborate what she heard (Bookie can't), and then do everything I could to find out who was in that truck and what they were doing later that night. I would like to know if this was ever really investigated...
Bulldog23
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That's the frustration in sleuthing I guess. We don't "know" anything other than what we have been told, and LE has not told us much in this case. So when other information gets "out there" through family or other sources, we have no way to confirm or deny the information. To me, the guys following the girls is intriguing and is probably important, but the best chance of ever resolving this case lies with the DNA.
The Dale County District Attorney said something like, you have to assume it came out of a sex offense. He is about official as it gets. Now, I have heard several people say that they didn't think the semen was related to the murder..and if it wasn't, the police should know exactly who it belongs to, and when and it was deposited. There is absolutely no excuse for police not knowing the source of the DNA if it was consensual.
But until I hear differently, I have to assume that the semen belongs to someone involved in the murders. If that is the case.. familial DNA should solve this case. OPD, if anyone still cares, have that semen tested against DNA databases-like yesterday!
SHINED Rabbit
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Bulldog- What about these murders points to a “sex offense”?
Other than the “semen” on J.B.’s shirt.
(Which was found on J.B.’s clothing three months after the murders, after it had been sitting in the Ozark evidence room.)
Crime scene photos, and autopsy’s clearly show neither of the girls had been sexually assaulted. If this were a sexually motivated murder- why weren’t they sexually assaulted?
somequestions
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You make a good point. Until you know something and can prove it directly with evidence, all someone has is what they think. Whether it is a location or, in this case, a motive, no one really knows why J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett were murdered. No one really knows where they went after leaving the Big Little gas station in Ozark, AL the night of July 31, 1999.
But this is a forum for discussion. I tend to think the motive in the absence of anything else is sexual. I also tend to think that J.B. Beasley and Tracie Hawlett were headed home that night and stopped somewhere along the way where they were kidnapped and then murdered. These are my opinions and they could certainly be wrong. Without any new information all anyone can do is guess.
TedMac
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BBM...You are correct in that we really don't "know" anything or know very little. Lets look at the DNA from a different perspective. If LE knows who the semen came from and they know it is not related to the murders, how would they go about telling the public? They could just admit it, but I can't help but believe they have enough "egg on their face" as it is from some of their other missteps. That would just be one more. Then again, perhaps they wouldn't want to tell the public and so they could use it to help determine if someone (like JWB) makes a false confession. All of this is just something I have thought of recently and could be completely wrong. If we ever find out the truth in this case and I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it.
I don't know what it means if anything given the reliability of the facts as we know them and the things we're told about the shirtless guys being unverified, but looking back with hindsight, that overheard tale with all it's detail looks and sounds almost too convenient.
That wasn't the same DA that wanted John B tried for this was it? It would be the obvious assumption if the DNA hasn't been identified. They were still talking about it as recently as four years ago. I frankly don't know what to make of it now.
I hear Parabon presently has about 50 unsolved irons in the fire, money says none are in AL.
The dna wouldn't need to be from a sexual assault that resulted in murder for it to be useful in solving this if identified. It could be someone connected to the depositor and for various reasons. Also, the sexual element to some crimes might not always be apparent. With unidentified semen found on a murdered teenager a sexual motive would be one possibility.
I have struggled with with the absence of a clearly defined sexual motive even with the dna but I also have a hard time believing if consensual this person would remain unknown for so long. A 16 year old with a somewhat limited social circle with a side piece that in 19 years nobody can identify? Or are you saying the semen deposit was somehow not the result of a sexual encounter with JB?
SHINED Rabbit
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The problem with the DA declaration that this is a sex crime- is now they are looking for a sexual predator, which limits the scope of the investigation. Besides the DNA on the shirt- there is zero evidence of a sexual assault. Agreed that the DNA doesn’t have to be from a sexual assault to be useful, but saying the dna on the shirt is the result of a sexual assault is not accurate. These girls were executed- the killer/s had ample opportunity to assault them and didn’t.
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