OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#37

[MittenScarpetta]

Agree. One of mine spent the night down the road, and was actually at the friend's house. The parents didn't know it, but they managed to sneak out and hitched to a bus stop, and made it to CINCINNATI! At age 14. They were looking to leave this town, and make it big in movies. I got a call from LE giving me exactly two hours to come get mine or they'd release them. The other parent? Asked if could just grab theirs while I got mine. Needless to say, we broke speed limits, and sound barriers, getting to Cinci. Also, last overnight at the friend's house.

However, with that said, CR1 and DR, did know, when they gave her permission to go to Fla with them. She was 14, IIRC. Not demeaning their choice, they probably saw it as an adventure, and were friends with the Ws at that point, but, with an 18 y.o. bf, it would have been a NO, for me.

Is it possible considering the W’s religious views, that AW & BW assured and reassured Chris and Dana that Hanna would be thoroughly supervised and there wouldn’t be an opportunity for Hanna and Jake to sneak off unsupervised? Playing devils advocate here, I feel like AW & BW can both be very convincing, reassuring people and if they gained the trust of CR & DR when it came to HMR & JW’s relationship, maybe Chris and Dana trusted that Billy and Angela would be sure to not allow any sexual relations to happen between the two. Just a thought.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I love your story. I was a bit wild when I was a teenager too. Snuck out often. My mother used to warn me that when I had kids of my own I would be paid back with interest for the things I put her through. I wish everyday I could tell her she was right and apologize for being such a pain. My oldest son is nearly 15 now. My daughter just turned 12. My youngest boy is 8. My boys are laid back and easy going. My daughter has been so different. I worry. A lot. When I was pregnant with her I just knew she was gonna be a girl. That's when the fear starts!. I hoped for a short chunky girl. Preferably with a moustache. So boys wouldn't be an issue. Nope. She's taller than me already. A cheerleader. And beautiful. I hate it! She does not look 12. Had a grown man do a double take of her in the grocery a few months ago. He circled the aisle we were in twice. I not so politely informed him she was 12 and I would cut him. We can't control what they do 24/7. We just hope we have taught them enough to help them make good choices.

She sounds like a very beautiful girl. I am betting she will have the sense to make good decisions. That's all any of us can hope for with our kids.

I know what you mean about worrying with girls. I have a new great grand daughter who was born last August. She is absolutely beautiful and I know I am going to be doing some serious talking to her when she is older about making the right life decisions. Like finishing college with a doctorate before she even thinks about marriage and kids. Even then waiting until she is well established in a career.

 

[rsd1200]

The thing with that is though, the ONLY time the victim's actions come into play is with self defense. As it stands, with most victims sleeping and with babies laying next to them, etc, there is a negative chance in hell self defense applies here. As such, the R's character can be debated until the cows (or in this case, miniature ponies and mastiffs) come home and it doesn't matter how horrible they may or may not have been it won't apply inside the courtroom because we do not have an "eye for an eye" judicial system. In fact, the moment the defense tries to bring it up, I would expect the prosecution to "object" on grounds of "the R's are not on trial here." That said though, I'd actually be very surprised if the defense even chose to bring up much of the "bad blood" between the two families because really all that will serve to do is strengthen the juries perception that the W's were enacting revenge for a long standing feud.

The fact of the matter is, if this had been one murder the W's may very well have gotten away with it, it would have been easier to plant the seed of doubt on self defense or anonymous drug deal gone bad, or even to keep it swept under the carpet as LM eluded to typically happening when it came to the W's. But their desire to eliminate S's entire other side of the family is likely their biggest downfall before we even talk about the strength of physical evidence they left or possibility of a CI turning on them. Not even the infamous Hatfield's and McCoy's killed 8 members of the same family, and history doesn't give us a precedent for drug cartels or serial killers that hit an entire family on the same night and fly out under the radar (again, unlikely a drug cartel felt threatened by 200 seedlings anyway).

Not to be the negative nancy, but, I've seen the wealthy walk. At least the Ws have no bond. That is one step in the right direction.

 

[rsd1200]

Is it possible considering the W’s religious views, that AW & BW assured and reassured Chris and Dana that Hanna would be thoroughly supervised and there wouldn’t be an opportunity for Hanna and Jake to sneak off unsupervised? Playing devils advocate here, I feel like AW & BW can both be very convincing, reassuring people and if they gained the trust of CR & DR when it came to HMR & JW’s relationship, maybe Chris and Dana trusted that Billy and Angela would be sure to not allow any sexual relations to happen between the two. Just a thought.

I don't see CR1 and DR as being naive about such stuff considering their ages when they married and had FR, but, maybe the two didn't have relations til she was older. She didn't conceive S til she was six weeks shy of 16.

It's quite possible that both families trusted the children to supervise themselves. I've seen that happen far too much. "As long as they sleep on top of the covers, we allow the bf/gf to stay over..." Mind boggling. At least try. You may not succeed, but try. What's done is done. There is no going back. S was welcomed with much love. It's a shame it all turned to such hate.

 

[pepper 34]

I'd agree it's the least of his worries right now. I think the reason they added that charge was because it's a great way to prevent future visits with S. If he were to get out jail and still have to register as a sex offender, I'd say that will prevent visitation unless supervised at the very least. Maybe this is just insurance in the unlikely case he doesn't go down for the other charges. JMO

It might prevent him from getting his way if he asks for prison visitations, too. (or maybe you meant that, too) But, it seems to me his lawyer will soon be "pretty-pleasing, it's for the good of the father and the child, too." There's no reason to "deprive" the child of having the continuity and security of knowing her own father.... is there? After all, he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. A charge like statutory rape might prevent any chance of that even if it's only the charge at this point in time. He might not stand a chance at any rate and I have no idea... but I'm still waiting for the request from him/his lawyer.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Great example. From my own personal experience, I pulled that same kind of “trick” on my own mother many moons ago. I said I was staying at a friends and the friend said they were staying at my house. We in fact were 15 year olds who were up to no good-drinking, smoking pot, and with our older boyfriends. At about 8 am, we realized we had no where to sleep and had to come up with another story to be able to get into one of our houses and go to bed

And today, I’m so thankful I’m old and tired and know all the tricks (cause I pulled them myself lol) since I’m now raising teens myself

I think we all, as parents can relate to that sinking feeling we get when our teenagers do something so stupid it defies belief.

That and the endless stories of why their homework isn't done. I drew the line when my son told me he put his homework in the hamsters cage by mistake and the hamster ate it.

 

[willowisp]

Thanks for the great post, Mittens. I agree completely. The Rhodens weren't a "bad" family, certainly not deserving of their fate. Anyone who has raised teenagers knows what a perilous job it can be. Peer pressure is a major factor in problems young folks experience. Much has been made of HMR "dating" JW when she was 13, but we shouldn't assume this was occurred with parental consent. Two parents working long hours at their jobs often struggle to keep track of kid's activities during the hours after school. I'd wager much of HMR's early dating with JW happened without knowledge of her parents, or as we used to call it "sneaking around". The same applies for trying to control sexual activity in teens. I'm sure HMR's parents were dismayed when she became pregnant at such an early age but, like many parents in that situation, made the best of a bad situation. They made her finish school and she was already working at a nurse's aide job by the time she had her second child.

The trouble is we're biologically wired as we were when lifespans were very short. It's only five, six generations since the relative end of having to really hurry up and get on with things like love and family at early ages. Western societies have moved beyond that culturally but physically we're not in line with it. Hormones, pheromones, all are in big play early just the same as they've always been. In one of Georges Simenon's Maigret mystery short stories an elderly character says "I never was so in love as when I was sixteen". Ain't it the truth.

 

[Myland]

The thing with that is though, the ONLY time the victim's actions come into play is with self defense. As it stands, with most victims sleeping and with babies laying next to them, etc, there is a negative chance in hell self defense applies here. As such, the R's character can be debated until the cows (or in this case, miniature ponies and mastiffs) come home and it doesn't matter how horrible they may or may not have been it won't apply inside the courtroom because we do not have an "eye for an eye" judicial system. In fact, the moment the defense tries to bring it up, I would expect the prosecution to "object" on grounds of "the R's are not on trial here." That said though, I'd actually be very surprised if the defense even chose to bring up much of the "bad blood" between the two families because really all that will serve to do is strengthen the juries perception that the W's were enacting revenge for a long standing feud.

The fact of the matter is, if this had been one murder the W's may very well have gotten away with it, it would have been easier to plant the seed of doubt on self defense or anonymous drug deal gone bad, or even to keep it swept under the carpet as LM eluded to typically happening when it came to the W's. But their desire to eliminate S's entire other side of the family is likely their biggest downfall before we even talk about the strength of physical evidence they left or possibility of a CI turning on them. Not even the infamous Hatfield's and McCoy's killed 8 members of the same family, and history doesn't give us a precedent for drug cartels or serial killers that hit an entire family on the same night and fly out under the radar (again, unlikely a drug cartel felt threatened by 200 seedlings anyway).

Dewine did state at the end, I forget how he put it but something about drugs being a small part. That wasn’t his words but something to that effect. Who would of thought the poor Dad of Casey Anthony could have been drawn into that case like he was. Jmo

 

[willowisp]

Dewine did state at the end, I forget how he put it but something about drugs being a small part. That wasn’t his words but something to that effect. Who would of thought the poor Dad of Casey Anthony could have been drawn into that case like he was. Jmo

That was during the Q/A with reporters - the term DeWine used was "an undercurrent of drugs", but he wouldn't be pinned down any further than that.

 

[pepper 34]

The thing with that is though, the ONLY time the victim's actions come into play is with self defense. As it stands, with most victims sleeping and with babies laying next to them, etc, there is a negative chance in hell self defense applies here. As such, the R's character can be debated until the cows (or in this case, miniature ponies and mastiffs) come home and it doesn't matter how horrible they may or may not have been it won't apply inside the courtroom because we do not have an "eye for an eye" judicial system. In fact, the moment the defense tries to bring it up, I would expect the prosecution to "object" on grounds of "the R's are not on trial here." That said though, I'd actually be very surprised if the defense even chose to bring up much of the "bad blood" between the two families because really all that will serve to do is strengthen the juries perception that the W's were enacting revenge for a long standing feud.

The fact of the matter is, if this had been one murder the W's may very well have gotten away with it, it would have been easier to plant the seed of doubt on self defense or anonymous drug deal gone bad, or even to keep it swept under the carpet as LM eluded to typically happening when it came to the W's. But their desire to eliminate S's entire other side of the family is likely their biggest downfall before we even talk about the strength of physical evidence they left or possibility of a CI turning on them. Not even the infamous Hatfield's and McCoy's killed 8 members of the same family, and history doesn't give us a precedent for drug cartels or serial killers that hit an entire family on the same night and fly out under the radar (again, unlikely a drug cartel felt threatened by 200 seedlings anyway).

Exactly. I picture both sides attorneys coming into the courtroom lugging big cloth bags of dirty laundry with labels, "Rhodens" and "Wagners." They pull the strings loose and tip the bags upside down and shake the bags, while the jury holds their collective breath waiting to see what falls out of the bags and who has the biggest pile of dirty laundry. It's okay for us to discuss all that here but most of it will never get into the courtroom unless it's relevant to the current murder cases.
The jury isn't going to hear that Angela stole some boots years ago and they're not going to hear that Dana slapped someone's face years ago. If growing weed has nothing to do with the murders, then the jury won't even hear that Chris Sr grew some pot. If the pot Chris Sr was growing has something to do with the murders then we'll finally find out how much was being grown. The prosecution's case pretty much decides what will be talked about and then they're careful not to open any doors for the defense to walk through. The defense has to meet with the judge about what questionable subjects they might want to present. Things that happened soon before the murders might be allowed in but only if the judge feels it won't unfairly prejudice the jury.
I think one of the most important things is that the defense attorneys have to be very careful not to villainize the victims. That usually backfires on them. Every person knows the plotted, sneaky and brutal murdering of people while they are sleeping is indefensible on every level. Even if the murdered did grow pot or ride their dune buggy down the street too often and without a good muffler system, and had a very messy yard, to boot.
And the jury won't find out about the Wagner's weird colored red house or multiple deer heads or even one of them pointing a gun at another driver, either. That's just the stuff we talk about.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

That's my reading of it, too. The conspiracy charge shows they were all involved in the planning and cover up of the murders, making all of them complicit.

They all got the Charges because of the conspiracy (complicity). But I do believe they know who pulled what triggers. I think the investigation took so long becauseLE wanted as much evidence as they could get so there would be no holes and they were waiting for someone to talk (or tape record) so they could make the conspiracy stick on EACH of them so they each would be eligible for DP.

 

[pepper 34]

They all got the Charges because of the conspiracy (complicity). But I do believe they know who pulled what triggers. I think the investigation took so long becauseLE wanted as much evidence as they could get so there would be no holes and they were waiting for someone to talk (or tape record) so they could make the conspiracy stick on EACH of them so they each would be eligible for DP.

I hope your theory is true.

 

[Normrock]

They left parts to build silencer. Some please post link where used parts from crime itself. Cant find it anywhere.
DeWine said in this twice in interview. "They did it"
Reminding everyone about 6th amendment.
When asked by reporter about restoring Manley and Rhodan's reputations in reference to dog fighting ring, MJ growing,etc. he plays perfect politician and blames media.
DeWine says undercurrent of drugs four times in interview.

Don't know how this will post. But oh well. Listening to this news conference several times last night with headphones and CC on. Different stations, this station had best CC operator by far. Shame on FOX theirs was sooo bad.

DeWine is so positive the Wagner's did this crime he said it twice. "They did it" He might have been AG at time, but hes a politician first. Yes I said it and I don't care what party they are from either. Long time politicians do not go out on a limb that far unless they are sure and want to stay a politician.

I like the Sheriff good sense of humor, but he could be a jerk in life for all I know. Rob Junk was impressive too. He was reiterating innocent before guilty at all times. He wasn't joining they did it party the other 2 on podium were doing. Smart man.

 

[willowisp]

They all got the Charges because of the conspiracy (complicity). But I do believe they know who pulled what triggers. I think the investigation took so long becauseLE wanted as much evidence as they could get so there would be no holes and they were waiting for someone to talk (or tape record) so they could make the conspiracy stick on EACH of them so they each would be eligible for DP.

I fear that what comes out at trial will be ghastly beyond words. It's already all ghastly, but for me there's a looming sense of awfulness like the leaden antifreeze-green sky before unspeakable weather. I don't normally follow true crime. It gives me the heebie-jeebies. Because, I'm a domestic violence survivor. Not at the hands or the mind of a spouse, but at those of a family member. True crime isn't my thing because for decades I lived true crime - if that makes any sense. I could have been, in the end, one of those family headlines. I'm safe now, because he is dead, happily, from a pickled liver. Yay! But - when I saw Leonard Manley, from the beginning - clear, honest, endearing - he's like a lot of old-timers I knew when I was a kid in New England in the late '50s-early '60s - all long long gone now . There's a clarity to these people. The reporters asking him "how he felt" - he finally, exasperated, said, "We lost eight people!" He didn't say, "Can't you understand?" But he'd have been justified had he done so. I knew people like Leonard when I was a kid, then later in other places as an adult. They have a refreshingly short rope for nonsense. You can lean on them. They might live in tin shacks but you can lean on them. Between the sheer logistical insanity of the crime and my instant identification with what I saw of some of the extended family, I never could take my eyes away from the thing. Defense may well try to chuck the Rhodens under the character bus but as others have noted it will backfire if they do. I daresay perhaps the Wagners thought that no one would care about this crime and these people. Think again. I've awoken in the dark to a family member standing over me with a gun or kitchen knife in hand. I know what that moment, those moments are. They are beyond description. Time elongates, stretches out like a rubber band, you think of the dark and its comforts and the stars and how these have just been perverted into a nightmare and how this is the end and you shall shortly travel into those stars forever. And what it takes, for the person doing it to do it, is the absolute vacating of one's soul, assuming one is present to begin with - because you look, and see this, in their eyes.

 

[pepper 34]

They left parts to build silencer. Some please post link where used parts from crime itself. Cant find it anywhere.
DeWine said in this twice in interview. "They did it"
Reminding everyone about 6th amendment.
When asked by reporter about restoring Manley and Rhodan's reputations in reference to dog fighting ring, MJ growing,etc. he plays perfect politician and blames media.
DeWine says undercurrent of drugs four times in interview.

Don't know how this will post. But oh well. Listening to this news conference several times last night with headphones and CC on. Different stations, this station had best CC operator by far. Shame on FOX theirs was sooo bad.

DeWine is so positive the Wagner's did this crime he said it twice. "They did it" He might have been AG at time, but hes a politician first. Yes I said it and I don't care what party they are from either. Long time politicians do not go out on a limb that far unless they are sure and want to stay a politician.

I like the Sheriff good sense of humor, but he could be a jerk in life for all I know. Rob Junk was impressive too. He was reiterating innocent before guilty at all times. He wasn't joining they did it party the other 2 on podium were doing. Smart man.

Hey, that took some time. Great job and thank-you for the references to look at. That is one thing I've been thinking of lately... no matter if we like or dislike the defendants or the murdered... no matter what we think of their "lifestyles" (and, who are we anyway?) ... In this country, everyone is entitled to a fair trial and every murdered person is entitled to have their day in court. Our court system is intended to overlook all of our differences and treat us all equally, no matter what.

 

[Betty P]

I completely agree with your statements above. In no do I think they deserved to die. No way at all. But history can not be changed due to them being victims. No way what they did gives anyone the right to take their lives and what they did in the past doesn’t no way compare to what the killers did. From what I know about the victims they were good to their families and to a lot of others, but they still had some things that could have caused them a lot of trouble. The reality is the defense will probably have some not so nice things to say about them unless the Wagners are guilty and try for a plea bargain. Jmo

If you have a link with information to back up your claims against the Rhodens, please provide it. Otherwise, it just sounds like more of the nasty rumors the W family used to spread around on social media.

Yes, this is a classic morality tale in which the evil wealthy people of means victimize the poorer working class folks. Only this time they did X8.

 

[Myland]

Random thought maybe they got them on the tape referencing that night of the killing on Oct 30th and had to send the tape off for voice analysis to be able to prove it was actually those four on the tape and be able to use it in court. Jmo

 

[Myland]

If you have a link with information to back up your claims against the Rhodens, please provide it. Otherwise, it just sounds like more of the nasty rumors the W family used to spread around on social media.

Yes, this is a classic morality tale in which the evil wealthy people of means victimize the poorer working class folks. Only this time they did X8.

I believe the pot has already been posted in this forum and stated by investigators Jmo.

 

[Gracie55]

Very interesting read. I can't wait to hear how this couple operates.

Did she get in trouble herself or did he drag her into these situations? IMO, this man likes to have his way.

She is 48, mother of a 27 yo. She's been with him most of her adult life. Sometimes, it's hard to get out...

She was apparently busy with the pigs and kids and her men, probably trying to make a child friendly environment as well as a man cave and control it all meanwhile. She likely tried to manage the guys but they were like herding cats. I bet she did damage control more than once, IMO.

 

[Betty P]

They all got the Charges because of the conspiracy (complicity). But I do believe they know who pulled what triggers. I think the investigation took so long becauseLE wanted as much evidence as they could get so there would be no holes and they were waiting for someone to talk (or tape record) so they could make the conspiracy stick on EACH of them so they each would be eligible for DP.

I think you're mostly right about that. Only exception is that, JMO, the investigation took so long mostly because they looked at the wrong people for nearly a full year. By then, the "good Christian folks" had left for Alaska. LE had to back track on examining their evidence and shift focus.