AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[cluciano63]

Has it been confirmed that James definitely worked that Sunday? I know it has been reported that Denise told family members James was working that day, but I can't recall if LE has verified he actually was at the turkey plant/some other unknown job, and if so, what hours he worked.

No it hasn’t...at least certainly not that he would have come home “at night”. Maybe he worked a day shift for all we know.

 

[DutchTreat]

I would like to know if the perp left with Jamey through the front door. Or if he wanted to spare her from having to see her father like that and they left somewhere else.

That would show if there was any compassion.

 

[cluciano63]

Then why not just kill her too?
Someone prepared to kill a man and a woman in cold blood, why would they not just shoot any other witnesses as opposed to burden themselves with a walking, talking person who if they were to escape, would almost certainly see them convicted.
It doesn’t make sense unless Jayme was indeed the target of a planned kidnapping or.....

Agree. My brain can not wrap itself around taking a teen girl unless for sexual purposes, probably making her the target. If not the target, another victim shortly thereafter. Her only chance of still being alive, imo, is if she WAS the target.

 

[DocBrew]

I keep thinking about the 2 vehicles of interest, i wonder why LE limited it to just two? We know the 911 call ended at 12.54 am and that police were there at 1.00 am so the perp(s) would presumably have left the property at 12.55 or just after. We know the Sheriff stated they were looking for vehicles of interest between 12.30 - 1.30 but surely any vehicles seen on CCTV nearest to the Closs home around 12.55 or just afterwards should have been treated as suspicious, no matter how innocuous they might have seemed. What was it about these 2 vehicles that stood out to LE that night?

Good post. The two vehicles are the single biggest piece of factual narrative that we Sleuthers have to build upon, IMO, yet virtually none of us seem to be all that interested in them. In my view, the reason LE picked those specific vehicles out of what was certainly many to choose from leads me to believe that they are virtually certain that those selected are involved in this crime. The fact that LE didn't release actual video or still shots of the vehicles in question leads me to believe that both have identifying attributes that are unique to each, and/or both have evidence tying them to the crime that could be clearly seen from said video/stills.

JMO.

 

[kirkassoc]

I live in Texas and some may think our laws are lenient, but I believe they are logical. Truth is I only know I would not go to the door late night or early morning without a way to protect myself. I don't believe James Closs would either unless he knew the people at the door.
I just pray I never have to face that situation. A very scary thing.

...

 

[Ms Buffyton]

So many unanswered questions.....I think LE is definitely keeping some information from the public for the purpose of the investigation. I wish I knew the footsteps of the family on that day. Denise and Jayme attended a family party, but we don't really know who was in attendance. James had to work that day. Did he work his full shift? LE released the description of the two vehicles in question in the area on that night. Strange that nothing has come of that. With all the resources available in the beginning of the case, one would think that LE was able to go through the entire DMV records in Wisconsin and follow up on all those vehicles. IMO I do feel it is someone that a member of the family knows. On the outside they appear to be a small happy family, but we never know what goes on behind closed doors or any of the family dynamics. I read about Denise being devoted to Jayme, but I never read any reference to the father/daughter relationship. Very few family photos released. Sad case.

 

[Vaderman]

I read a post many pages back about how the length of time likely means she's no longer living. I've heard this statistic before. Why is it? Does the victim outlive the perceived usefulness? What causes someone to take the time and effort to abduct someone only to eventually murder them? What's the catalyst that goes from abduction to death?

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

With the conversation about meth issues in arron County I thought I'd offer this site that ranks WI counties based upon the number of meth related arrests. I know just that number doesn't reflect the whole picture but just some added info.

Rankings

Thanks for the info. Hadn't seen that but your right about it not showing the whole picture. Not enough enough given at that site. The info that led me to the meth issue was from media interviews with the sheriff and his involvement with a group trying to stop meth use (can't remember the name but it is on his website).

 

[Seahorseladydi]

So many unanswered questions.....I think LE is definitely keeping some information from the public for the purpose of the investigation. I wish I knew the footsteps of the family on that day. Denise and Jayme attended a family party, but we don't really know who was in attendance. James had to work that day. Did he work his full shift? LE released the description of the two vehicles in question in the area on that night. Strange that nothing has come of that. With all the resources available in the beginning of the case, one would think that LE was able to go through the entire DMV records in Wisconsin and follow up on all those vehicles. IMO I do feel it is someone that a member of the family knows. On the outside they appear to be a small happy family, but we never know what goes on behind closed doors or any of the family dynamics. I read about Denise being devoted to Jayme, but I never read any reference to the father/daughter relationship. Very few family photos released. Sad case.

The fact that LE has kept this case so close to their chest makes me believe they have some very good, yet small pieces of evidence that they are working on. I also believe that this is someone that the family knows or has known. I agree with @DocBrew And his/her theory if the cars. 99% of the time they would have the photo of the original car/cars out in the public eye so people could be looking for those vehicles. There is something about those cars that makes them stand out or the shot they have shows something they don’t want the public to see!!
Why is LE not telling the public anything anymore?

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

No it hasn’t...at least certainly not that he would have come home “at night”. Maybe he worked a day shift for all we know.

I believe there was some confusion about part work for part of the day due to the grandfather's comment in an interview saying " Naiberg says his daughter was a 'thoughtful person' who brought "a little gift for everybody" at the party. He says Jayme's father was working at the time of the party." Somewhere along the line someone said that wasn't correct. BBM
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...riff-says-missing-wisconsin-girl-is-in-danger

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I am still curious about whether or not the dog was in a crate at the time. If it were loose you would think it would have tried to follow. Even if she were taken out a different door the dog would have gone out the front opened(?) door. If it were crated I would think at least Jayme was in bed for the night if not all. The dog seemed so loved (per aunts) I can't imagine it being crated before bedtime. Actually I would be surprised if it were crated at all but might be projecting my own experiences and thoughts.

 

[Trino]

I live in Texas and some may think our laws are lenient, but I believe they are logical. Truth is I only know I would not go to the door late night or early morning without a way to protect myself. I don't believe James Closs would either unless he knew the people at the door.
I just pray I never have to face that situation. A very scary thing.

It takes only seconds to kick open a wood door. The guns were in a case, presumably locked as required by law. Between reaction time and the killer shot James never had a chance.

 

[cluciano63]

I read a post many pages back about how the length of time likely means she's no longer living. I've heard this statistic before. Why is it? Does the victim outlive the perceived usefulness? What causes someone to take the time and effort to abduct someone only to eventually murder them? What's the catalyst that goes from abduction to death?

Statistics, mainly, I believe. I think most abducted kids are killed fairly soon after, if it is not a custodial issue. At least, the ones who are found...

 

[brando555]

So many unanswered questions.....I think LE is definitely keeping some information from the public for the purpose of the investigation.

It does seem that way, especially the way the Sheriff is so careful with his words. It is odd that they released stock photos instead of actual photos of the vehicles of interest too. Maybe appearing as if they have no leads is a way encourage more tips from the public? I don't know if that is an LE tactic or not, but it certainly seems like they have some information, just nothing that has lead them to the perp yet.

 

[kay74]

Then why not just kill her too?
Someone prepared to kill a man and a woman in cold blood, why would they not just shoot any other witnesses as opposed to burden themselves with a walking, talking person who if they were to escape, would almost certainly see them convicted.
It doesn’t make sense unless Jayme was indeed the target of a planned kidnapping or.....

I don't know because she is a little girl? This was rage so why would this person have rage trying to get her?? Doesn't make sense. Usually rage is for someone who has wronged you.

 

[sumzero]

I don't know because she is a little girl? This was rage so why would this person have rage trying to get her?? Doesn't make sense. Usually rage is for someone who has wronged you.

Why do you say rage? Why not cold and methodical? I don’t think we know enough about what happened to draw any firm conclusions.

 

[Rosiebones]

I watched the interview with Denise's sisters and brother again and when he was asked if he had ideas of what might have happened he responded in the affirmative in a way that made me think he wasn't just guessing. Supporting my point of view that it was someone they knew or at least had seen around town. I still think LE is putting the pieces together.

 

[Confusion]

Statistics, mainly, I believe. I think most abducted kids are killed fairly soon after, if it is not a custodial issue. At least, the ones who are found...

The statistics are for the children who were abducted and murdered, not for all abducted children, but it should help some.

Almost two-thirds of the killers in these cases have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children.

In 76 percent of the missing children homicide cases studied, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction–and in 88.5 percent of the cases the child was dead within 24 hours.

Child Abduction Murder Research | Washington State

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

.

The statistics are for the children who were abducted and murdered, not for all abducted children, but it should help some.

Child Abduction Murder Research | Washington State

OT: Good info but reminds me of something I have wondered about. That research is from 2006. While I doubt there has been much change in results, every time I see statistics on this subject from (whether government, private research or anywhere that would be considered reliable) I wonder why they are not current. At least within the last few years. Why? Maybe I answered my own question and it's because there is an assumption there would be little change. JMO

 

[SeekingJana]

I would like to know if the perp left with Jamey through the front door. Or if he wanted to spare her from having to see her father like that and they left somewhere else.

That would show if there was any compassion.

Taking Jayme out another door could also minimizing her screaming at the carnage and bringing attention to the house. It might not be about any sense of compassion at all.