GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #62

[Seattle1]

In the pre-polygraph interview CW talks a bit about his life after high school and pre-SW. He stated that he moved out when he started NASCAR tech school and never lived with his parents again. I don't know if lived completely alone or if he had roommates, but he did not live with his parents when he started dating SW. That doesn't mean his family didn't feel like SW ripped CW from them, but he did live independently after high school. He specifically talks about his Dad having problems with alcohol at that time and CW suspects it is because he didn't come back home like his sister did. That his parents probably expected him to need them like Jamie and they (particularly his Dad) were sad about that.

I don't recall it was alcohol but "substance abuse." Maybe I'm wrong?...

 

[human]

I would say, he is a killer because he chose to be. There are situations when people have no choice, e.g., war, or someone attacking them, or their kids. Even Jainism, the nicest religion ever, allows it.

But killing when there are other choices available is different.

There are other situations. Both ancient Jews (Abraham) and ancient Greeks (myth of Iphigenia) once made the opposite choice, to walk away from human sacrifices. Apparently, there are people who might be born with opposite brain structures? Always were?

I live in a country where there were human sacrifices in the 1900’s and maybe later. The people do not like to talk about it.

They believed they got power from those sacrifices,

It is hard to understand as it was a societal construct.

Even today people go off to war thinking it is a positive for society.

I have read that getting people to kill in war is not easy. I am not sure where the study is, but men would not kill until they witnessed and were led by someone in command. The idea of the study was to show that killing is not a natural part of humans.

In Persia as late as the late 1800’s female infants were buried alive. Did the parents grieve? I do not know.

CW killing his own children is a tough one to swallow but it has been done throughout history. England?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think that he knew. I think it came out in the car. The real story, not CW's later story.
The father comes because the family is missing. He goes to the police station with his son and then he is driving back to the airport.
At this stage the family is still missing, so what was the point of him going to Co?
I think that he knew his son was not getting out of the police station because of what CW told him in the car. MOO.

He did not leave for the airport until after his son was admitting that he had killed them.

We know that because it was the public defender that called him.

That was stated.

They do not give you a lawyer through Miranda rights until after you are arrested. That stuff about you have a right to a lawyer if you can't afford a lawyer we will supply one... That is only after you are arrested that that comes into play.

So he was leaving town after his son was arrested, and had admitted that he had killed his wife and they were no longer missing, and got a public defender that called the father on his way to the airport..

 

[Charlot123]

In the pre-polygraph interview CW talks a bit about his life after high school and pre-SW. He stated that he moved out when he started NASCAR tech school and never lived with his parents again. I don't know if lived completely alone or if he had roommates, but he did not live with his parents when he started dating SW. That doesn't mean his family didn't feel like SW ripped CW from them, but he did live independently after high school. He specifically talks about his Dad having problems with alcohol at that time and CW suspects it is because he didn't come back home like his sister did. That his parents probably expected him to need them like Jamie and they (particularly his Dad) were sad about that.

Thank you. This is something I missed. Sorry for the confusion. I viewed part 1 and 2 of the polygraph, but I prefer to read, it is so much faster. I agree that a video is much more interesting, though.

 

[violet101]

Killer Chris Watts Watched Neighbor's Surveillance Video The Day Before His Arrest

I wish we could see this bodycam footage!

 

[MsBetsy]

I think the opposite actually as far as his kids. I think he devalued SW, and NK and his family helped egg it on. The girls were extensions of SW. I remember him saying he knew he "wanted to separate" when the girls started to repeat the same insults to him that their mom did. Now we all know CW is a coward and he never wanted to confront SW to separate or divorce despite her asking if it's what he wanted. So when he says he knew he wanted to separate, I think he meant he was ready to disentangle from SW and the kids. Permanently.

I also notice when he described the kids, he mainly brought up unpleasant things. "They threw chicken nuggets at me. Bella kept asking for mom. I didn't want them to Facetime with Shanann because it would be a cryfest. Cece is called rampage. I miss them barrel rushing me. I miss telling them to eat their dinner. Cece only has two modes: going or asleep." ETC

SW dad says CW was cold and angry with the kids in North Carolina because they wanted nothing to do with him. The lady at the bungee cord place said he was completely disengaged from the girls and there was no affection. I think he noticed the girls preferred SW and her family and this caused major narcissistic injury so he was ready to discard them too. When he saw NK wasn't a fan of his kids, that added more fuel to the fire. He was done with them.

I am no psychologist of course so MOO.

You bring up a lot of good points. I like your term, "major narsisstic injury." I think you are right, he basically saw Shanann and the girls as one. He felt devalued and unappreciated. He mentioned several times that the girls were starting to mimic Shanann. By the time he got to NC I think he had already distanced himself from them. It's amazing how he's so easy to read.

 

[Layla123]

Heres why I am skeptical:

1) They work together. There were people at work who openly congratulated him about the new baby. This was in the discovery.
2) He used gift cards for meals. Why the need to cover his tracks if he's separated?
3) Why the secret calculator app?

When she was questioned by police she says multiple things that reveal she knew, such as
"My mistake was spending time with him before he was separated"

"My friends don't need to know... because he's with two women" (she was asked if any friends knew about CW)

"I told him (CW) 'Don't tell me you love me when you are lying in bed with another woman (SW).'"

There were other instances but those are the ones memorable to me.

All those seem explainable to me.
1. NK worked in an office, CW worked in the field. She didn’t hang out with the same people. She wasn’t present when those things were said.
2. She said she thought he used gift cards because he got them as a bonus from doing well at work.
3. He was protecting her naked pictures and keeping them from accidentally getting out there.

The things she knew? She did know these things at the time of the interview. She was talking about her feelings in the present, not the past. But, when did she say to CW, “Don’t tell me you love me when you are lying in bed with another woman?” That’s new to me. I thought NK thought he slept in the basement.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't recall it was alcohol but "substance abuse." Maybe I'm wrong?...

Correct. “Substance abuse” page 581.

 

[PommyMommy]

Supposedly Radar has a 15-minute bodycam video of CW and officers reviewing NT's security video but I don't see it here. Did I miss it?

Killer Chris Watts Watched Neighbor's Surveillance Video The Day Before His Arrest

Throughout the fifteen minute bodycam video obtained by Radar, Watts is sweating and repeatedly explained to his neighbor and the officer why he had backed his truck up into the garage, also noting that someone had vandalized his truck days before the murder.

When the killer left the room, the brave neighbor pointed out that something wasn’t right.

“He’s not acting right at all,” the neighbor told Officer Coonrod, showing him something he found to be “out of the ordinary.”

The neighbor noted that he overheard Watts screaming at the “top of his lungs” on several occasions.

“If you look – he never loads stuff in and out of the garage, never.” The neighbor said. “The fact that he was in here explaining it to us over and over and over – he doesn’t look worried – he looks like he’s trying to cover his tracks.”

“He’s acting so suspicious – he’s normally quiet, real subdue – he’s over here telling you three times what he took out, what he did, what he did, what he did,” the neighbor said, adding: “He never talks, so the fact that he’s over here blabbing his mouth makes me kind of suspicious. Why is he so worried about you know what he’s carrying out?”

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

For mulling over

Noun. willful ignorance (uncountable) (idiomatic, law) A decision in bad faith to avoid becoming informed about something so as to avoid having to make undesirable decisions that such information might prompt. Synonyms: vincible ignorance,willful blindness.

 

[opalonyx]

Another NK search on July 24th.
Page 1896
"Man I'm having an affair with says he will leave his wife"

 

[NuttMegg]

Does anyone else want to know how NK entered through the front door without SW seeing it on their camera?
She also says the first time she went to their house she drove herself. Wasn't there concern the neighbors would see this?

Also, i keep reading there is video of CW in a police car after he was arrested. I have not seen that.. can someone link it?

I can't find the good video but I saw it this morning, they take him from the interview room, put some thing around his waist, pat him down, put him in a police car, it's at night and you can hear the police driver say arriving with a "cooperative" male. I have no idea why this video is 90 deg off. The vid I saw this morning was correctly oriented.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I must have missed that. Was it in one of the polygraph videos?

it was the interview with the 2 police officers. The male officer said, wtte, 'we think you killed the girls before Shanann returned home, that's what we're thinking, are you that kind of monster?' CW answered, no, no, no, he's not a monster or wtte.
Unfortunately, CW is that kind of monster but hated that the officer even suggested he was one, the officer just wanted to find out where the girls and Shanann were and then deal with CW and what he'd done. The idea that Shanann killed the girls was born from a seed planted by the police and CW ran with it. CW is a lost cause!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the evidence of him agreeing to be there for Bella's school registration and then texting his colleague to say he would be going straight out to the oil site and it wouldn't need two of them to go, is enough for me to conclude he premeditated all their deaths.

I wonder what it will take for his parents and his verified Insider to realize that it was premeditated?

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

The part that makes me cut NK a little slack here, is the fact that SW was in NC for the first six weeks of CW & NK’s affair. CW was free as a bird to spend as much time as he wanted withNK, any time of the day. I think I read they were together 4-5 days a week. Because of that I can understand why NK may have believed the marriage was over. Married men don’t have that much free time on their hands. Then the last week before the murders, SW came home. I can see where it might be true that NK told CW to hang out with his kids during that last week. I think it’s very possible that NK didn’t know how married CW really was until all the news came out after SW and the kids disappeared. I don’t want anyone getting mad at me, I don’t know for sure, I just think it’s very possible because I think CW is such an accomplished liar, and he fooled everyone else in his life.

So why were they communicating using a secret app? She went to her FB page August 4th, if she didn’t know before then she found out that day, yet she told LE she didn’t know til the porch interviews. If she believed the marriage was over why did she tell LE she told him he needed to try and make his marriage work when he was in NC ( when the reality was she was sending him nude pics). My issue is this is a quadruple homicide and she decides to scrub all info. She decides to be very deceptive in her interviews and that is a fact. She does not possess the character or morality to put the murder of a pregnant wife and two toddlers before her own concerns. I am not a techy, idk if they can access what she actually looked at but I personally do not need to know that to understand you don’t type something in the search engine unless you intend to go to that link. Maybe they were still working on retrieving that info if it is possible. Keep in mind, NK just didn’t delete info, she did resets too, you only do that if you are trying to make the info unrecoverable. It’s my understanding she asked friends to delete any texts concerning CW from their phones too, she doesn’t look at their phones, why did she take that step?

 

[lisa122473]

Impossible to understand. I think we have said it here before, but I guess that's why the only vague emotions he expressed were about such literal things - that "those kids" wouldn't be around for him to give them dinner or turn on their rainmaker or do domestic tasks for them. A few cliche comments about "Their smiles light up my life." That the house needed them. But totally devoid of emotion, love, grief, distress, regret, or remorse for these darling little girls. I would actually feel sorry for him that he is somehow missing this chip, except - he knows right from wrong. He knows murder is morally wrong and a crime. He's not a victim. He was of sound mind. And he did it anyway.

Any regrets or remorse at this point will just be for his new quality of life. His pesky family aside, he had a pretty nice life of a job that let him be outdoors, grilling his chicken, going for runs, watching football, going to concerts, driving his truck, snazzy new fitted t-shirts. He had it pretty good. I would imagine he is feeling very sorry for himself and perhaps regretting the predicament he now finds himself in.

Long time lurker, first post.

He's a jamoke, MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder what it will take for his parents and his verified Insider to realize that it was premeditated?

Nothing. They will never believe it, “even if there is a fire.”

To quote Step Brothers.

 

[human]

I think he married SW because he was not married, lived with his parents, and had no GF. And she was pretty, vivacious and independent.

I think independent is a better word than strong. Both SW and NK were pretty much able to live alone. CW never lived alone. There were his parents and SW. And he hoped for a life with NK.

Actually, I think, had he lived alone for a while, he'd stop being afraid of loneliness. Maybe even cherish it. There was too much noise around him, both SW and NK seemed to have been noisy, each in own way. His mom comes across as pretty loud.

He lived with at least one rommate. His school for NASCAR was not in his hometown, was it? And what did he do after he graduated?

 

[Layla123]

I thought so too and wrote a very indignant post here about people jumping all over her. Now that we are aware of her internet searches, I know she was well aware that she was interfering in a marriage. Not my business or concern except she LIED. She lied and stalled the investigation into a missing pregnant woman and 2 toddlers. She wasn’t fooled by that last week or even longer. But she sure was willing to fool LE and anyone else she could

Everybody keeps saying she stalled the investigation. How long? 15 to 30 seconds for the detective to explain why LE needed the information before she agreed? The time it took to apply software to recover her deleted messages? How much longer did that take to do than it would have taken had the messages not been deleted? Turns out they didn’t need them, anyway, because the case never went to trial. But LE was able to take the information she gave them during that very first interview and walk right on into that interview room where CW was and got him to confess.

 

[Charlot123]

I live in a country where there were human sacrifices in the 1900’s and maybe later. The people do not like to talk about it.

They believed they got power from those sacrifices,

It is hard to understand as it was a societal construct.

Even today people go off to war thinking it is a positive dor society.

I have read that getting people to kill in war is not easy. I am not sure where the study is, but men would not kill until they witnessed and were led by someone in command. The idea of the study was to show that killing is not a natural part of humans.

In Persia as late as the late 1800’s file infants were buried alive. Did the parents grieve? I do not know.

CW killing his own children is a tough one to swallow but it has been done throughout history. England?

Well, in pagan world, human sacrifices were common. But what about auto-da-fes in Catholic countries? The same, I think. The last one happened in Mexico in 1834, not that far away in time.

How many children were killed during the Holocaust? By adult, married men. There is tiny evidence that during invasion of Poland, older, married Catholics with kids protested more, but still, not unclear. I read parts of memoirs of the Soviet officer who, seeing the victims of the Nazis on occupied territories, said that they were seething for a revenge, but revenge did not prepare him to what he later saw in Eastern Prussia.

I think civilian victims of wars are also in the same group, human sacrifices.

Zimbardo wrote a great book, "the Lucifer Effect", I would love to read his comments on the Watts' case.