GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

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ilovewings said:
I think Nicole's calling the police so quickly thwarted his plan. Nicole deserves some kind of award for her heroism in this case. if not for her he would have had more time and his plan could have worked.
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I think that NUA and the neighbor combined are what did CW in so quickly, but I also think CW was always going to have a problem with the shallow grave.

LE would have gone to the work site, and even if CW had managed to move Shanann's body elsewhere, there still would have been evidence a grave had been there and Shanann's dna would likely have been recovered from that grave.

I think he also was always going to have problems with the electronic evidence of the marital problems, his affair, and his attitude toward his family in the weeks before the murders.

No doubt in my mind that NUA set the ball in motion for a very quick resolution with her brave actions.
 
Tortoise said:
I don't know. People like that need a scapegoat - someone who they can point at and say look over there, that's the evil one who's causing all the problems in our lives. Now she's not alive and no one with any sense is believing their vicious lies. Even if they did succeed in demonizing her it has to stagnate at some point but their lives won't. They'll need to find another diversion IMO and they may even turn on each other.

MOO
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I think the Watts family is and has always been very dysfunctional. I think there are issues and secrets they do not want anyone to hear about. I also think they have been worried that Chris had possibly told Shanann all of his family problems and they probably thought Shanann had shared these "secrets" with her family and friends so they wanted to get on top of all of this and ruin Shanann's credibility. A lot of things that have been said about Shanann turned out to be about them. She had an affair. No that was Chris. She took the creepy doll pic. No that was Chris. She did coke. No that was Ronnie. She has been said by them to be bipolar. I wouldn't be surprised if someone in their family had been diagnosed with that. That could have started their whole dislike of Shanann. Just the fact that Oh no, here's a new person who is going to figure us out and know about all of our issues. No one wants their family issues exposed and no one deserves for that to happen but the way they have went about it by blaming a murder victim is beyond terrible.
 
molly1255 said:
NUA's quick actions stopped that monster from being able to have time to stage the house. She definitely deserves an award, not only for being a true friend to Shanann, but also for being incredibly brave. I think the neighbor with the security video deserves an award, too. He was tuned into what was going on around him and he came forward very quickly with his security video.

CW didn't have time to stage the house, or unlock interior locks thanks to NUA getting LE over there asap. The only conclusion that could be made based on the way the house was locked up from the inside is that Shanann and the little girls would have had to have left the house via the garage. The neighbor's security video showed exactly who was in the driveway that day. They were a deadly duo for CW, IMO.

When we were first discussing this case and trying to figure things out, there was much discussion about the neighbor's security video and discussion about whether CW knew about his neighbor's security cam.

After seeing the video showing CW's reaction at the neighbor's house when the security video was being shown, it appears that either CW didn't know about the neighbor's security camera or the security camera completely slipped his mind as he loaded up his truck that morning.

As if he had a mind to begin with.
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Well said and I agree. I think it's interesting and ironic that CW's crimes were the result of hatred and selfishness, but his undoing was the result of love and caring. The love and caring by SW's mother, that made her call the police and follow up. The love and caring that NUA, and Shanann's other friends had, that made them courageous and determined. The caring of the Thayers who immediately contacted and cooperated with LE. It was the love and concern that Shanann inspired that put CW where he is today! I doubt he will ever realize or understand it.
 
Jax49 said:
Thank you, PommyMommy. I'm not seeing what I thought I remembered. Bad memory, I guess.

ETA: Link to post doesn't seem to be working. Edited to add link.

GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65
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Hi Jax49, I think what you are looking for is on discovery page 1023, "patchy areas of likely Tardieu spots". I dont know what Tardieu spots are or what they indicate, but I do remember some discussion about them here and how they might indicate being made by pressure to the head, but nothing was confirmed. MOO.
 
NuttMegg said:
I'm not in the literary field, but I bet 99.9% there is a book or 2 or 3. Look what both ABC and HLN put together rather quickly, I was glued to both even though I didn't learn anything from either......there's so much more, a gold mine of it. Salacious sells, Moms and kids being murdered sells, strong silent type goes bad sells, death on the prairie sells, murder in the 'burbs, and, if any of them can get information from CW, somehow, the book will go off the charts. As I mentioned yesterday, just put any book on the front display of the airport bookstore, and there it goes. And then there's audible, read by the author her/himself. Oh yeah, there will be a book. Look at the characters trying to make a buck from her on FB, livestreams on YTube, etc.
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Too bad Ann Rule is no longer with us
 
This probably won't go down very well but I feel a bit sorry for CW. He absolutely deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, but I can't help but think he was a broken man who just lost it- like a complete mental break. He seems like the kind of passive, quiet guy who repressed his emotions. I do wonder if he had a history of mental health issues, or maybe he was just hiding them? He just looks so pitiful in some of the videos- even the ones with Shannan and the kids. I just can't figure this guy out and its bothering me. <modsnip - discussing other forums>. I just feel so sad for Shannan, the kids, the families AND Chris, all those lives ruined. I just feel sad.
 
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ilovewings said:
The pregnancy could have been the straw that broke the camel's back (so to speak): we have seen it so many times before (Scott Peterson comes to mind): How many women have been murdered because their partner simply did not want another baby--- it is of course more complex than that in most cases, but that seems to be a big factor in many of these murders of pregnant women.
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What I thought was interesting about how he viewed the pregnancy was a statement he made to investigatirs when the subject came up. I think it was after he had admitted to the affair. They asked him to go over the details of what happened that night and when he mentioned that Shanann was pregnant one of them asked him how he felt about it. It was the closest he had ever come to expressing anything about the pregnancy, other than the fact that he wanted a boy. He said that when they were talking about having another baby, Shanann said she was 80-20 for having a baby. Then after she got pregnant she told all her friends she was 70-30 against the pregnancy. He said he didn't understand why she would say that. He seemed genuinely confused. Then the investigator asked him if he knew that a lot of what he was saying didn't make sense and he immediately said "I know," so we didn't really hear him explain what he meant.
I don't know if it means anything significant or not, but I do think it's strange that he brought that particular point up. Why was that so meaningful to him? He seemed to be saying that at first he thought she wanted a baby, but then it seemed like she didn't. Maybe he saw it as rejection. I wish we had heard more from him about that. Imo
 
GoneGoldfishin' said:
Hi Jax49, I think what you are looking for is on discovery page 1023, "patchy areas of likely Tardieu spots". I dont know what Tardieu spots are or what they indicate, but I do remember some discussion about them here and how they might indicate being made by pressure to the head, but nothing was confirmed. MOO.
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Thank you for helping my memory. That is exactly what I remembered.

SKULL AND BRAIN: Reflection of the scalp reveals patchy areas of likely Tardieu spots. These areas are incised to reveal superficial blood collections within the fascial planes. There do not appear to be any contusions present.
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Seems to be a result of the method of death, not pressure to force her into the tank. moo

Tardieu spots

(tar-dyu'), subpleural and subpericardial petechiae or ecchymoses (or both), as observed in the tissues of persons who have been strangled, or otherwise asphyxiated. Synonym(s): Tardieu petechiae, Tardieu spots.
 
Tranquileyes said:
The last texts she wrote to him were about her flight being delayed. She called.. He didn't answer (because he was on the phone with NK) and then she wrote a text saying I was trying to call you and let you know...
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And then after that I think he wrote, "holy ****! I passed out." Then said something about it being very late. ( when she would get home)
 
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To claim that CW killed his family because he snapped is along the lines of believing his absurd claim that he killed SW in a rage because she murdered Bella and Celeste, imo.
ALL of the evidence directly contradicts this having been a rage killing.
Yet some folks are STILL looking to SW for what triggered it all.
The monster's evil idiotic plan was to have his family/friends back up his ridiculous story about his 'shady' wife taking his 'beloved' daughters, never to be seen again.
This is why he told them 10-14 days beforehand that he was divorcing SW, while leaving SW herself completely in the dark.

Even though his own plan was to get a fresh start for himself, he thought others would not perceive his true selfish motive.
In his own stupid mind, he thought if everyone knew he wanted out of the marriage, then he wouldn't be the prime suspect in the disappearance of his family.
I guess this is why some folks believed his story about SW killing her babies in a rage because he was leaving her.
So now that it's clear to 99.9999% of people that he murdered his entire family, how does it makes any sense at all to claim that he must have killed them in a rage? MOO
 
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Arose said:
This probably won't go down very well but I feel a bit sorry for CW. He absolutely deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, but I can't help but think he was a broken man who just lost it- like a complete mental break. He seems like the kind of passive, quiet guy who repressed his emotions. I do wonder if he had a history of mental health issues, or maybe he was just hiding them? He just looks so pitiful in some of the videos- even the ones with Shannan and the kids. I just can't figure this guy out and its bothering me. <modsnip - discussing other forums>. I just feel so sad for Shannan, the kids, the families AND Chris, all those lives ruined. I just feel sad.
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I think he may have been "hollow" all his life. He was aware of it, tried to hide it, and learned how to act normal by observing others and maybe doing research.
He is indeed a truly pathetic, completely broken individual.
It's hard to feel sorry for him after all that he has done. If only he had gotten help a long time ago. I would really like to know the results of some of the psychological evaluations he has had so far. It might help some to understand how something like this could happen. Imo
 
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opalonyx said:
So NK brought up in the recent police interview that was released that she saw CW was using double the recommended amount of Thrive. He always wore two patches instead of 1. He had plateaued as far as weight loss and that's when he asked for her advice on diet. She said she wasn't sure if he doubled up on the other supplements as well. She said it was like he never wanted to sleep and he wore her out. He began working out a lot. He also had sex with NK 3-4 times a day. He lost 13 lbs in 2 weeks I think she said. It makes me wonder if he experienced caffeine induced mania.

Now I am not blaming Thrive.

Any form of caffeine can be abused such as energy drinks or caffeine pills. It is up to consumers to use caffeine in moderation and be responsible. There are disorders and addictions related to caffeine. Certain studies claim caffeine abuse can exacerbate underlying mental illnesses.

Here is one of the studies: Manic Episode Following Ingestion of Caffeine Pills: A Case Report

A combination of the euphoria brought on by his affair, the stress from his mother meddling in his life constantly, underlying conditions such as borderline personality disorder maybe, and caffeine abuse may have led him to be reckless enough and crazy enough to actually plan this and carry it out IMO. We even saw that he crashed at the police station and could hardly stay awake.

I hope I don't create offense with this subject. It was just something that caught my attention. I don't think it would have provided any kind of defense in court. It might explain the shift in those 6 weeks in addition to NK.
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BBM. That also caught my attention because CW was also into jogging and exercise and should have no problem staying awake. I recently read the article in the link below and I was shocked and really concerned.

This medical study was just released:

"What I say to people who are studying is to avoid energy drinks. And to people who are exercising, avoid them," said Dr. John Higgins, chief of cardiology at Lyndon B. Johnson Hospital, a sports cardiologist and a professor at McGovern Medical School at UTHealth in Houston.


Higgins led a study that looked at the effects of energy drinks on blood vessel function on 44 non-smoking, healthy medical students who were in their 20s. He and his colleagues tested the students' blood vessel, or endothelial, function and then tested it again 90 minutes after they had consumed a 24-ounce energy drink.


The preliminary results, presented earlier this month at the American Heart Association's Scientific Sessions conference, suggest the drink reduced by about half how much the participants' blood vessels were able to dilate, or expand.

"During exercise or under stress, your arteries have to open up because they need to get blood to the muscles, heart and brain," Higgins said. "If there is impairment during exercise or mental stress, it could lead to adverse effects."

Energy drinks, cramming for final exams could be unhealthy mix
 
gitana1 said:
And didn't CW say his dad had an alcohol problem after he moved to CO? Or am I conflating things?

Yeah. The problems in that family aren't with mama Watts alone. It seems like a ton of dysfunction to go around for everyone.
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Yes he did, I wonder if Cindy and/or Ronnie said something to him to make him feel responsible or the reason for his dads problems or if CW came up with that on his own. They are a case study in dysfunction.
 
Arose said:
This probably won't go down very well but I feel a bit sorry for CW. He absolutely deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, but I can't help but think he was a broken man who just lost it- like a complete mental break. He seems like the kind of passive, quiet guy who repressed his emotions. I do wonder if he had a history of mental health issues, or maybe he was just hiding them? He just looks so pitiful in some of the videos- even the ones with Shannan and the kids. I just can't figure this guy out and its bothering me. <modsnip - discussing other forums>. I just feel so sad for Shannan, the kids, the families AND Chris, all those lives ruined. I just feel sad.
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I actually believe that he will be a good candidate for a future psychiatric evaluation. Now that he has admitted he killed them all there is no deniability so I can't see why he would need to lie. The reasons for his lies were evident at the time (avoiding conviction and shame at having his mask ripped off) and I can understand the DA saying he didn't think anything he said would be truthful - that was how it seemed at that time, at the end of a very fast investigation. I think the right person could get him to talk if he felt safe. Just like the right people got him to tell them where he put the bodies. Given time, I think we will hear about life inside CW's head. He didn't want to go to therapy with Shanann because he had things to hide and he had a goal to specifically not make the marriage work. I hope he does put his sentence to good use so that others can understand.
 
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Thepoet said:
Well said and I agree. I think it's interesting and ironic that CW's crimes were the result of hatred and selfishness, but his undoing was the result of love and caring. The love and caring by SW's mother, that made her call the police and follow up. The love and caring that NUA, and Shanann's other friends had, that made them courageous and determined. The caring of the Thayers who immediately contacted and cooperated with LE. It was the love and concern that Shanann inspired that put CW where he is today! I doubt he will ever realize or understand it.
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You are so absolutely right on this, Thepoet. There are examples of extreme hatred in this case, and that extreme hatred is what caused all of the damage. But there are also many examples of people who love, and who feel compassion and concern for others in this case as well,
 
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