CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[moonlessnight]

we've all been brainwashed that adults' "rights" - sorry let me rephrase that : men's rights - are more important than children's safety.

I sure hope not.

 

[MassGuy]

One thing that bothers me the most, if PF was involved how is the stone cold silence a good approach to come across as innocent? (I’ve watched a ton of true crime stories for over 25 years and don’t recall one like this ) if he was involved , as many have mentioned, he had a HUGE head start to cover it up. One would think he’d have his story ready .

Also we don’t know if the very first officer who spoke to PF immediately accused him in a very abrasive manner and caused PF to shut down.

There is a reason PF isn’t talking voluntarily (though I know lots of people who would never speak to media about anything, good or bad ) and it’s possible he feels he HAS told police everything he knows. jMO

My niece has an extremely poor short term and long term memory. If she was in PF’s shoes I’d lawyer her up myself. She would be horrible at stating what she did hour by hour 3 weeks ago. She’d seem like she was hiding something or lying even if 100% innocent. And she is a college grad with a successful career which make it harder for LE to believe she really doesn’t remember. PF might be similar. MOO

There is also a reason KBs mom isn’t being allowed to see baby K. We have no clue what she said to him on 12/2 when she found out he hadn’t heard from KB since 11/25, it could have been VERY nasty. Even people here are like “KB’s the mother of his child and even if PF barely knows her , it’s his duty to know her whereabouts and report her missing” If they just recently broke up he might have just thought she was avoiding him. And him having their daughter the majority of the time was normal for them evidently. JMO

We also have zero clue how often KB’s mom has ever seen baby K . Maybe it’s hardly at all and PF is thinking ‘now you want to see her?’ My child has an absent grandparent who , if in this situation, would be all over media saying we are close (we aren't) and bemoaning not being allowed to see her. He hasn’t seen her in almost 3 years and we have offered. He lives 3 hours away. My BF’s mom has not met her newsest grandson and he’s 10 months, she only lives in the next state is retired and in great health. My child’s other grandpa didn’t meet her for 16 months....again only a 4 hour drive away.... and ALL of these grandparents claim they are extremely close to their kids and love their grandkids more than anything, especially on FB. And yes I’m projecting but not all families behave the same as a ‘normal’ family , even if they claim to be close.

All that said I very well may regret trying to figure out where PF may be coming from with his behavior, and thinking that there must be WAY more to this story than we know. MOO

I do know if my ex, we have a kid, went missing I would never speak to the press. Everyone says I have a blunt *itchy tone, especially when stressed. WS and everyone else would have me in the gallows within hours , even if my albi was I was on live TV the entire time he’s been missing (like being a Big Brother contestant for example)

I for one, won’t regret calling out the bizarre and incriminating behavior from PF here.

Normal people file police reports when their fiancé has gone off the grid for over a week, especially with a baby involved.

When a police report is filed, normal people make an effort to help locate the missing person.

If one is unwilling or unable to speak to the media, normal people appoint someone to speak for them, as publicity can help to locate the missing.

Normal people do not go radio silent when a loved one is missing.

No, we don’t know for sure that a crime has been committed, but it sure as hell looks that way.

I know where I’m looking.

 

[alucardsdream]

Either her mother likes to put a good spin on everything or she doesn’t know her daughter as well as she thinks she does.
I am very close to my daughter. Two weeks before she and her partner broke up they were here on vacation. Looked to be happy and in love to me. Two weeks later my daughter calls and tells me it’s over. They had been together for 5 years. She then proceeded to tell me how abusive, emotionally, her ex was. For five years all I heard about was how happy they were, blah, blah blah. My point is that I think KB might have been putting a good spin on the whole thing when she spoke with her mom. Was PF abusive? Is that why they were living apart, I mean even if she is a Christian they had already slept together because they have a child. This whole thing is as full of holes as Swiss Cheese. How old is PF? Living with his mom yet having a child and “fiancé? That’s a recipe for trouble in any relationship.

I think KB's mom is stuck between a rock and a hard place...she wants to believe KB is alive and will be coming back. She can't allow herself to start believing PF did something to KB, because that would mean she won't be coming home. And if by some miracle, KB does manage to get home and it turns out that PF had absolutely nothing to do with it, it would make things a little awkward for KB if her mom had gone around accusing PF of doing something. I don't think there's a real chance at that, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Charlot123]

My google searches would definitely be incriminating if someone close to me disappeared.

My Google searches yesterday looked as if I were plotting a crime - mostly about cell phones, pinging, tethering and GPS.

 

[SandyQLS]

But PF DID get the baby from her after she was at Safeway.

Still catching up... but I just realized that the description LE issued on the missing flier is for what she was wearing carrying as she was seen at the Safeway. LE, Mom and brother have been inside her home and recognized that it is that brown purse that is missing. White top and blue jeans she may have a lot of those, but where is the gray sweater? Boots? My point is that LE put that info out because they have some reason to believe she never changed her clothes and purse to dress up for a holiday dinner. That may be something PF is telling the truth about, getting the baby in the afternoon. I believe KB left her home on her own two feet, with her purse, keys and phone, and willingly got into a vehicle, dressed as she was. jmo

 

[scdiv]

Did Kelsey's mother call PF on the 25th? I keep looking for some proof of that, and I've read it here, but do we have a link from a MSM article that states that?

This has never been spelled out with pure clarity. The closest is in the first police conference where the police chief says Kelsey was reported missing by her mother on December 2. He goes on to say, "Cheryl did reach out to Kelsey's fiance, and he called her back, saying that he hadn't heard from her since November 25, when Kelsey texted him." That makes me believe that CB called him December 2 and when he said he hadn't heard from her since November 25 or seen her since November 22, CB called the police. (But he never specifically says what day CB reached out to PF.)

 

[MsBetsy]

I really would still like to have a tech expert chime in about pings, VPNs, text spoofing, and remotely accessing a phone (turning it on from another location)....

I have a question about that too. When I first started reading about the case it was reported by the Woodland Park police Commander that they did not know whether the phone ping was a "false ping" or whether it really pinged in that location. What exactly is a false ping and how does it occur? Did they ever verify that it was a true ping? I haven't read it anywhere but I may have missed it. How do they differentiate between the two? It would be helpful if we knew for sure that there was no doubt that this was a true indicator of where the phone was located at the time. Otherwise we are spending time trying to figure out why the phone would be in that area when in fact it was not. Imo

 

[mickey2942]

I am a CASA - court appointed special advocate. My title has different names, eg guardian ad litem and different legal roles in each state. We don’t take children from their parents and even when there is abuse, we work towards reunification. I can’t begin to tell you how difficult it is to take a child from a parent even with cause. Even with a court challenge, it would be hard to take that child away from
him

I worked in the system for years. And quit, because I couldn't stand it any longer. It is offensive if you really care about children.

Many children live with killers. Drew Peterson had his children with him for years. Some children grow up with a Father like O.J. Simpson, who went to prison for...theft, of course...it is difficult to accept.

 

[BRRI]

I truly don’t believe that any fancy techniques were employed to throw off law enforcement here.

We just don’t see murderers or kidnappers doing things like that, not with any regularity.

When all is said and done, I think the text messages were sent via standard means. Somebody had her phone and physically sent those texts.

That person was also in Idaho, for whatever reason.

This part won’t be complicated.

Probably. I’m just wondering how a VPN on WiFi with no cell service would show up in terms of pinging. As in, he had her phone, went somewhere in his house without service, used WiFi to VPN, set location to an IP in Idaho. Would the ping show Idaho? Colorado? No ping because no service? I guess no ping since it wouldn’t be connecting to a tower? Is it a ping in a traditional sense (tower/cell signal) or is it more of an IP stamp type of ping (we don’t know this answer of course)

 

[MassGuy]

I think KB's mom is stuck between a rock and a hard place...she wants to believe KB is alive and will be coming back. She can't allow herself to start believing PF did something to KB, because that would mean she won't be coming home. And if by some miracle, KB does manage to get home and it turns out that PF had absolutely nothing to do with it, it would make things a little awkward for KB if her mom had gone around accusing PF of doing something. I don't think there's a real chance at that, but stranger things have happened.

Yup, I think part of it is that she simply doesn’t not want to go there, thinking that her daughter is dead.

Right now, PF is the gatekeeper in regards to access to her grandchild. He has custody, and he can prevent her from seeing her granddaughter.

She has to play nice.

 

[MsBetsy]

This has never been spelled out with pure clarity. The closest is in the first police conference where the police chief says Kelsey was reported missing by her mother on December 2. He goes on to say, "Cheryl did reach out to Kelsey's fiance, and he called her back, saying that he hadn't heard from her since November 25, when Kelsey texted him." That makes me believe that CB called him December 2 and when he said he hadn't heard from her since November 25 or seen her since November 22, CB called the police. (But he never specifically says what day CB reached out to PF.)

So she must have called him on the 2nd of December.

 

[katie565]

Z

 

[chi123]

Yes to your first question. I don't understand (from a lawyer point of view) why some posters here are so upset with the attorney. He has done nothing that improper here. I understand that everyone hates lawyers, except their own lawyer. But I assure you, that your personal family lawyer that you've known and loved for years would be giving the exact same advice to a client.

To the second part, is it normal? Its certainly not unusual, especially in this day and age. We increasingly see reports of criminals later exonerated because of false confessions, etc, and we how aggressive and selective in reporting that media can be. And, based upon passed experiences perhaps, many people have an extreme distrust of law enforcement. We have seen a lot of posts on these threads about PF's family in LE and the insinuation that they have helped him cover it up. But that cuts the other way too. What if there are officers on the local law enforcement that PF has had problems with in the past and he is worried they will try to railroad him.

I think people are angry at him, not the attorney.

If he’s guilty of anything he’s certainly making the right decision by refusing to speak to LE in any way. I do agree that every lawyer I know would have also advised me not to speak to the police, but if my loving GF and mother of my child was missing I would have immediately reported her missing and would be cooperating fully, all the while I would be desperately pleading with the public for help in finding her.

 

[Jennifer17]

Still catching up... but I just realized that the description LE issued on the missing flier is for what she was wearing carrying as she was seen at the Safeway. LE, Mom and brother have been inside her home and recognized that it is that brown purse that is missing. White top and blue jeans she may have a lot of those, but where is the gray sweater? Boots? My point is that LE put that info out because they have some reason to believe she never changed her clothes and purse to dress up for a holiday dinner. That may be something PF is telling the truth about, getting the baby in the afternoon. I believe KB left her home on her own two feet, with her purse, keys and phone, and willingly got into a vehicle, dressed as she was. jmo

Yes, but whose vehicle?

 

[scdiv]

One thing that bothers me the most, if PF was involved how is the stone cold silence a good approach to come across as innocent? (I’ve watched a ton of true crime stories for over 25 years and don’t recall one like this ) if he was involved , as many have mentioned, he had a HUGE head start to cover it up. One would think he’d have his story ready .

Also we don’t know if the very first officer who spoke to PF immediately accused him in a very abrasive manner and caused PF to shut down.

There is a reason PF isn’t talking voluntarily (though I know lots of people who would never speak to media about anything, good or bad ) and it’s possible he feels he HAS told police everything he knows. jMO

My niece has an extremely poor short term and long term memory. If she was in PF’s shoes I’d lawyer her up myself. She would be horrible at stating what she did hour by hour 3 weeks ago. She’d seem like she was hiding something or lying even if 100% innocent. And she is a college grad with a successful career which make it harder for LE to believe she really doesn’t remember. PF might be similar. MOO

There is also a reason KBs mom isn’t being allowed to see baby K. We have no clue what she said to him on 12/2 when she found out he hadn’t heard from KB since 11/25, it could have been VERY nasty. Even people here are like “KB’s the mother of his child and even if PF barely knows her , it’s his duty to know her whereabouts and report her missing” If they just recently broke up he might have just thought she was avoiding him. And him having their daughter the majority of the time was normal for them evidently. JMO

We also have zero clue how often KB’s mom has ever seen baby K . Maybe it’s hardly at all and PF is thinking ‘now you want to see her?’ My child has an absent grandparent who , if in this situation, would be all over media saying we are close (we aren't) and bemoaning not being allowed to see her. He hasn’t seen her in almost 3 years and we have offered. He lives 3 hours away. My BF’s mom has not met her newsest grandson and he’s 10 months, she only lives in the next state is retired and in great health. My child’s other grandpa didn’t meet her for 16 months....again only a 4 hour drive away.... and ALL of these grandparents claim they are extremely close to their kids and love their grandkids more than anything, especially on FB. And yes I’m projecting but not all families behave the same as a ‘normal’ family , even if they claim to be close.

All that said I very well may regret trying to figure out where PF may be coming from with his behavior, and thinking that there must be WAY more to this story than we know. MOO

I do know if my ex, we have a kid, went missing I would never speak to the press. Everyone says I have a blunt *itchy tone, especially when stressed. WS and everyone else would have me in the gallows within hours , even if my albi was I was on live TV the entire time he’s been missing (like being a Big Brother contestant for example)

So if the fiance is not involved, do you have a theory on where Kelsey is?

 

[SandyQLS]

Yes, but whose vehicle?

Mr Occam's Razor, esq.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did Kelsey's mother call PF on the 25th? I keep looking for some proof of that, and I've read it here, but do we have a link from a MSM article that states that?

That's what I read at first but now it seems she called to report her missing on the same day she spoke to him, when he told her about the text messages. That would be December 2nd. But I haven't seen the source for that.

 

[BRRI]

Yes to your first question. I don't understand (from a lawyer point of view) why some posters here are so upset with the attorney. He has done nothing that improper here. I understand that everyone hates lawyers, except their own lawyer. But I assure you, that your personal family lawyer that you've known and loved for years would be giving the exact same advice to a client.

To the second part, is it normal? Its certainly not unusual, especially in this day and age. We increasingly see reports of criminals later exonerated because of false confessions, etc, and we how aggressive and selective in reporting that media can be. And, based upon passed experiences perhaps, many people have an extreme distrust of law enforcement. We have seen a lot of posts on these threads about PF's family in LE and the insinuation that they have helped him cover it up. But that cuts the other way too. What if there are officers on the local law enforcement that PF has had problems with in the past and he is worried they will try to railroad him.

Thank you very much. Very insightful. I am really hoping to explore both sides of this before fully pointing the finger at what seems obvious. I do wonder if a lot of what we find to be odd, insulting, suspicious, is because of his legal guidance. What do you think about the search warrant being executed today? Is that standard for a spouse or significant other of a missing person? Would the attorney likely advise PF and his family to not voluntarily allow the search?

 

[flute4peace]

Yes to your first question. I don't understand (from a lawyer point of view) why some posters here are so upset with the attorney. He has done nothing that improper here. I understand that everyone hates lawyers, except their own lawyer. But I assure you, that your personal family lawyer that you've known and loved for years would be giving the exact same advice to a client.

To the second part, is it normal? Its certainly not unusual, especially in this day and age. We increasingly see reports of criminals later exonerated because of false confessions, etc, and we how aggressive and selective in reporting that media can be. And, based upon passed experiences perhaps, many people have an extreme distrust of law enforcement. We have seen a lot of posts on these threads about PF's family in LE and the insinuation that they have helped him cover it up. But that cuts the other way too. What if there are officers on the local law enforcement that PF has had problems with in the past and he is worried they will try to railroad him.

I just want to say thank you to you and the other attorneys for your interesting and helpful information.

And also I love your username & would hire you based on that alone

 

[Jennifer17]

I have a question about that too. When I first started reading about the case it was reported by the Woodland Park police Commander that they did not know whether the phone ping was a "false ping" or whether it really pinged in that location. What exactly is a false ping and how does it occur? Did they ever verify that it was a true ping? I haven't read it anywhere but I may have missed it. How do they differentiate between the two? It would be helpful if we knew for sure that there was no doubt that this was a true indicator of where the phone was located at the time. Otherwise we are spending time trying to figure out why the phone would be in that area when in fact it was not. Imo

Verizon said that it would be a real ping, but they were speaking generally, not about this ping. I am not sure how much weight you can give that though, because false pings have been recorded.