CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[WhimsicalWillow]

I think security cameras of neighbors may play a huge part in this case. They did in the Mollie Tibbetts case and the Watts case.

LE was very lucky to get the video evidence in Mollie’s case to track down the perp in his car.

I really believe that people can make a difference today by purchasing and installing video cameras outside of their home. I live in a safe town but I’m convinced it can be helpful one day and it makes me feel good to try to help.

 

[BRRI]

I have to wonder..........if she was carrying her phone and LE know what time she dropped of the baby, where did her phone ping immediately after the drop off? Did her phone stay in the location of the drop off for an extended amount of time? PF's home looks pretty rural. Maybe there isn't even service there.

I’m thinking they may not know that level of detail yet, unless the phone company turned it over pretty quickly. They would have to scrub through a decent amount of data to get that ping trail.

 

[BRRI]

I want to say up front that I know this is outlandishly unlikely, but in the interest of turning over unturned stones...

Does anyone know if we can confirm that Kelsey was the one who drove herself and the baby to Safeway?

I know we tend to think she went home and made cinnamon rolls after the grocery store, but is it at all possible that PF or another party drove them there and she never returned home from that point? (But he claims she did?)

Could that be why they haven’t released footage of her leaving the store? Or of her in the parking lot? Is there anyone else in that Safeway footage that is of interest?

They haven’t said how she got to/from the store at all

 

[chihuahua]

All we have learned from official sources so far if I am correct is that her phone and her purse are missing. Have I missed a critical series of posts? We have the ping, but no phone, right?
And yes it would be very interesting where her phone pinged right after the exchange of the baby's custody.
It seems it would have had to be a normal pattern at that time, just have zero idea how/when it would have ended up pinging some 800 miles away.
Chi

 

[Kapua]

Did we not already know she went missing under suspicious circumstances? And really, that’s all we know.

We know that:
- KB and child went to Safeway around 12:30 MST on 11/22, as evidenced by store video.
- Her cars were parked in her driveway as of 12/2, as reported by her brother.
- Her suitcases and cosmetics were not removed from her home, as reported by her brother.
- Her purse and cell phone are missing, too.
- PF has the child that KB was last seen with.
- KB's phone sent two texts on 11/25, one to her boss and one to PF
- CB, KB's mom reported her missing on 12/2.

Who wants to add to the list? Facts only.

 

[gypsysoul]

I keep settling on two thoughts...

One, I wonder if LE has determined if either of Kelsey's cars were driven after the 22nd? Depending on their relationship, would PF have a key to them? And I know the BIL stated the cars were both there in the driveway* when they made it to town to search but what about before that? What about between the 22nd and the 25th-26th?

And regarding the involvement of an airplane... LE stated early on that all planes were accounted for. Again, was that "at the time" of the presser or were they accounted for during the days Kelsey likely went missing? If I remember correctly, they once stated Gooding, ID was 600 miles away** but Google Maps shows it is 800 miles. Could they have been using "as the crow flies" miles - which could elude to a flight being involved somehow (either for Kelsey, or her phone)?

*Both cars in driveway: Police want direct talk with missing Colorado mom's fiance
**Cell pinged 600 miles away: Missing Woman Kelsey Berreth’s Mother Says She Sounded ‘Happy’ The Day She Disappeared

 

[happyday]

Curious about PF's job(s). We have heard he's a cattle rancher and a farrier. Was he a rodeo guy? There was a picture posted here of him winning a medal for roping. Was he a professional roper? How involved was he in the rodeo circuit? Just curious.

 

[PommyMommy]

And with that LE now has the opportunity and plenty of resources to find if there’s any reason to suspect that PF is involved. I don’t suspect PF at all until / unless there’s evidence to support that suspicion.

And to be real honest, at this point I’m skeptical that there’s even a crime to investigate.

Good morning, SharonNeedles.

Just out of curiosity, what reason(s) do you believe 75 law enforcement officials from the Woodland Park Police Dept, the Teller County Sheriff's Office, an FBI Evidence Response Team, CBI investigators and a Teller County SAR Team have to show up and serve a search warrant, escort all the residents off the property, block off the road, tow away CF's truck, search the home, outbuildings and 35 acres with cadaver/scent dogs with plans to spend three days combing over CF's property following LE's examination of his phone?

I apologize if this has already been posted. It was marked for immediate public release. Hmmm...

Hi friend! Hugs to you and Sanchaboo.

 

[SharonNeedles]

We know that:
- KB and child went to Safeway around 12:30 MST on 11/22, as evidenced by store video.
- Her cars were parked in her driveway as of 12/2, as reported by her brother.
- Her suitcases and cosmetics were not removed from her home, as reported by her brother.
- Her purse and cell phone are missing, too.
- PF has the child that KB was last seen with.
- KB's phone sent two texts on 11/25, one to her boss and one to PF
- CB, KB's mom reported her missing on 12/2.

Who wants to add to the list? Facts only.

Yep, those are indeed suspicious circumstances. Missing from that list is anything to indicate a crime. Not saying there wasn’t a crime, but if there was we’ll get evidence indicating as much soon enough. Until then, I’m not convinced and I’m certainly not convinced PF is involved in the unspecified crime that I don’t even know occurred.

 

[Chelly]

To me many of the answers to what may have happened to Kelsey lie in what PF didn't do, not necessarily what he did do. Questions I'm sure LE have or are looking for answers to:
1) Did he use his phone normally from 11-22 to 11-25 or did he go silent? What is his online activity like?
2) What does the GPS on his truck say about his activity, was he driving around locally or was it sitting in his driveway?
3) Did he miss the time he was supposed to return the baby to her mom and no one knew?
4) Why did he not report her missing and show concern immediately?
5) What did he tell his family about having the baby only with him and not sharing custody?
6) Did his family have a Thanksgiving dinner planned and he didn't make it or he showed up only with the baby?

So many questions! I hope the search is going to answer several of them for us.

Two more questions
7) Do we know for sure his mother is in poor health and he is caring for her?
8) Is he paying a hefty amount of child support?

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

Keep in mind the phone ping was in Idaho where her mothers lives, and on the way to relatives in Washington.

Not Nevada, Arizona, or Iowa. It’s specific location greatly reduces the chance of a false ping.

Who had Kelsey ‘a phone in Idaho. I wait.

Yeah ^^^WHO^^^? I wait too. Not sure if this "who" is even in our view yet. Maybe a sidekick to main perp who headed twd Soap Lake w phone to further the story. If so, was sidekick's involvement limited to phone diversion or did they help with/know more?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Good morning, SharonNeedles.

Just out of curiosity, what reason(s) do you believe 75 law enforcement officials from the Woodland Park Police Dept, the Teller County Sheriff's Office, an FBI Evidence Response Team, CBI investigators and a Teller County SAR Team have to show up and serve a search warrant, escort all the residents off the property, block off the road, tow away CF's truck, search the home, outbuildings and 35 acres with cadaver/scent dogs with plans to spend three days combing over CF's property following LE's examination of his phone?

Hi friend! Hugs to you and Sanchaboo.

No idea what their reasons are, but I anxiously await hearing both the results and the original justification for the warrant. LE appears to equipped for a very thorough search, I would expect to know very soon if there’s reason to suspect PF or not.

 

[chihuahua]

Good thinking @PommyMommy . hugs and smiles right back.
This case is just haunting us like they always do.
So many missing, each moment so crucial.
Chi

 

[NervousNellie]

And with that LE now has the opportunity and plenty of resources to find if there’s any reason to suspect that PF is involved. I don’t suspect PF at all until / unless there’s evidence to support that suspicion.

And to be real honest, at this point I’m skeptical that there’s even a crime to investigate.

BBM
I remember you saying the same thing for a while in Mollie's disappearance. And we know how that turned out. Are you being optimistic, or merely waiting for evidence?

 

[AmatuerDetective]

Respectfully, I don’t want to derail the thread here but I think it’s important to clear up this common misconception about the FBI. Crossing state lines is not a requirement for the FBI to become involved in a missing person’s case and a phone ping in another state is not the reason the FBI is involved in the investigation of Kelsey’s disappearance. The FBI is routinely called upon to assist local law enforcement in missing person’s cases because of their extensive resources and expertise – resources and expertise that often times, state and local law enforcement agencies do not have.

1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases
In a missing person case, as a matter of cooperation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will, at the request of a state or local law enforcement agency, make available the facilities of the FBI Identification Division and the FBI Laboratory.

Information pertaining to certain categories of missing persons, including missing children, may be entered into the missing person file of the FBI operated National Crime Information Center (NCIC) by the local law enforcement agencies and, since passage of the Missing Children Act (Pub. L. 97-272, amending, 28 U.S.C. § 534), by parents of missing children if the local law enforcement agency will not do so. [cited in JM 9-60.100]

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Just about every case I have followed has included FBI involvement and because many of us here are familiar with the Mollie Tibbetts case (which had no interstate activity), I will use that as an example. Mollie went missing from a small town in Iowa (population 1,400) and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation requested the FBI’s assistance:

State and federal investigators join in search for Mollie Tibbetts
Mitch Mortvedt, Assistant Director of Field Operations for the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigations said DCI joined the investigation Friday and the FBI became involved Monday. Both agencies, he said, are able to offer extensive resources to aid in the search for Tibbetts.

“The FBI brings a lot of investigational power with forensic analysis and evidence assistance,” he said. “Additionally, the FBI has a highly-trained search and rescue team … and that is one of the resources they brought in.”

Everything We Know About The Disappearance Of Iowa College Student Mollie Tibbetts
"This is a new arena for us. That's part of the reason we called the FBI in. It's probably pretty new to them, too," Mitch Mortvedt, spokesman for the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, told CNN. "I don't know of another case here in Iowa where we have used specifically Fitbit info."

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All 56 FBI field offices have NCAVC (National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime) coordinators who handle support and training requests from agencies in their local area.

NCAVC provides the following services:
Crime analysis
Profiles of unknown offenders
Offender motivation analysis
Linkage analysis
Investigative suggestions
Multi-agency coordination
Threat assessment and management
Interview strategies
Search warrant affidavit assistance
Prosecution and trial strategies
Expert testimony
Critical incident analysis

CIRG — FBI

There is an old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but ya cant make him drink". Instead of further derailing this thread I simply invite all to read what I wrote and decide for themselves who's operating under speculation and misconception.

 

[BRRI]

Two more questions
7) Do we know for sure his mother is in poor health and he is caring for her?
8) Is he paying a hefty amount of child support?

No to 8, we aren’t even sure if there is a custody split. That’s just guessing right now.

 

[SharonNeedles]

BBM
I remember you saying the same thing for a while in Mollie's disappearance. And we know how that turned out. Are you being optimistic, or merely waiting for evidence?

Waiting for evidence. We all have a particular case in the back of our minds that have affected how we think. With so many emotional cases turning out to be murders at the hands of significant others I can understand where many of you are coming from.

For me, that case is Cameron Todd Willigham. A man put to death for the crime of killing his family. A crime he did not commit. A rush to judgement can be as tragic as the crime itself. I’ll wait for the evidence to support any suspicions I might have.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes I saw the posts. I just think they are wrong. The FBI by law got involved in this case when her cell phone pinged in Idaho. Thats not speculation. That happens each and every time there is evidence of interstate crime. Again that is the LAW of our country not speculation. Secondly, the first thing the FBI would be investigating is the ping from the cell tower. How do I know that? Because without knowing wether the ping was false or real they wouldn't know if they have any jurisdiction. How do we know they found the ping to be legitimate? We dont know for 100% but because they joined the state of Colorado in the search of the property we know they have remained involved. The state of colorado does not need any help from the FBI to execute a search warrant. The state of colorado has state of the art forensic teams that investigate crime scenes like this much more often than the colorado bureau does. If you want to create links speculating something else may have happened, based on some other scenario be my guest. I choose to believe facts and law.

The FBI got involved because they were asked by local/CBI. Evidently they WANT the help of the FBI.

It's no different than the Tibbetts case when local/state asked they get involved about a week after Mollie went missing. There was and still no evidence her murder was an interstate crime. JMO

 

[Lhughessk]

No idea what their reasons are, but I anxiously await hearing both the results and the original justification for the warrant. LE appears to equipped for a very thorough search, I would expect to know very soon if there’s reason to suspect PF or not.

I’d be interested to know the reasoning behind your skepticism. For me, there are many signs pointing to PF and no signs pointing away from him. LE certainly seems to be on that track, too.

How do you not suspect the significant other when he was the last person known to be with the missing person and she didn’t have her own vehicle? Her purse was gone but her car wasn’t, and he has the baby. So that tells me that at some point he came to her house and she and the baby left with him. Nothing else makes sense to me.

 

[PommyMommy]

We know that:
- KB and child went to Safeway around 12:30 MST on 11/22, as evidenced by store video.
- Her cars were parked in her driveway as of 12/2, as reported by her brother.
- Her suitcases and cosmetics were not removed from her home, as reported by her brother.
- Her purse and cell phone are missing, too.
- PF has the child that KB was last seen with.
- KB's phone sent two texts on 11/25, one to her boss and one to PF
- CB, KB's mom reported her missing on 12/2.

Who wants to add to the list? Facts only.

- Phone ping in Gooding, ID on 11/25 at 5:13pm
- Cinnamon rolls on the counter which were made Thanksgiving morning (cold)