AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28

[DutchTreat]

well a person could have taken supplies home and already had on hand and dressed in the yard if everyone was asleep or dressed down the road somewhere, gone in clean and not worried about what they had on them leaveing and burnt or discarded the gear latter. if supplies came from the plant then even if trace fibers from like disposable coveralls was found it would be expected because both parents likely wore them at work too.

I was thinking the same thing. Perp who could have put on clean coveralls, gloves, shoe covers etc. Maybe somewhere in the woods, close to the house. But there would have to be one or two additional people. One who would take away the stuff the clean/sterile protective gear was transported in, until the perp put it on, like a backpack. And one who would drive the car into the driveway at the right moment. That could be person two as well, but also a third one.

The point is, even if you would put on sterile coveralls etc. As soon as you would step into your car you would have been covered with stuff (DNA etc.). So you would have to change outside in the dark.

Maybe that's what the 00.31 shots were about. Discouraging anyone from going into the woods, because there was someone out there with a big gun.

 

[Jabarn]

Since the Closs family seemed to stay close to home and value family time, it does make me lean toward a small town crime, a local offender(s) and not a transient who came across the home driving by, or targeting the family having seen them at the grocery store, or some place like that.

It was a thought out attack. We just can’t know who would have the motive.

There is a story... like with Mollie Tibbetts, the circle of acquaintances are important. Her killer did have common friends with her, as I recall, even the killer’s former GF was one of her FB friends. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

In JC’s case, thinking of the circle, the inner circle would be her direct family, going outward would be close friends, the next one out would be casual acquaintances to any of the Closs family, and circling out from there would lead to a complete stranger.

Just some thoughts, and MO.

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Went back and looked over dispatch report on page 4..states..paraphrasing: door kicked in Male down answered door..but I thought JC died instantly?

 

[Rubiconbob]

I was thinking the same thing. Perp who could have put on clean coveralls, gloves, shoe covers etc. Maybe somewhere in the woods, close to the house. But there would have to be one or two additional people. One who would take away the stuff the clean/sterile protective gear was transported in, until the perp put it on, like a backpack. And one who would drive the car into the driveway at the right moment. That could be person two as well, but also a third one.

The point is, even if you would put on sterile coveralls etc. As soon as you would step into your car you would have been covered with stuff (DNA etc.). So you would have to change outside in the dark.

Maybe that's what the 00.31 shots were about. Discouraging anyone from going into the woods, because there was someone out there with a big gun.

I think it’s two cars ... 2/4 perps..

Fitzgerald said authorities are still taking tips about the vehicles but are not keen on locating those vehicles anymore.

He’s saying they found the two vehicles??
Didn’t say forget dodge or forget SUV.. he easily could have..he said forget Miami / forget 12:31 timeline.. here he parsed words..

1 car is weapons and breaking in/out kill both in less then 2 min.. likely only 30 seconds to 1 minute..as both adults moved to guns...

Other car is either lookout and Jayme extraction or just jayme extraction maybe by side door immediately yelling for her.. maybe familiar voice..get her in SUV in 2/3 minutes.. I could be wrong..

It’s crazy for one perp to assisnate 2 people
And kidnap one teen girl in under 5 minutes by yourself...

It’s less crazy if 3 people plan it..gotta increase success chances with more people ??

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Adding documentation on my comment about JC answering door.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Went back and looked over dispatch report on page 4..states..paraphrasing: door kicked in Male down answered door..but I thought JC died instantly?

Not, male answered the door (for police). Male "had" answered the door (for perp)

 

[Jabarn]

Adding documentation on my comment about JC answering door.

Jayme, who is thought to have been at home during the call, was gone when deputies arrived just a couple of minutes later. The door was open when they got to the house, Fitzgerald said.

Sheriff: No fingerprints, no shoe prints, no DNA in Wisconsin double homicide, missing teen case

Took me a while to re-find this quote from the sherriff- a more recent explanation. The door was open. Nothing about it being shot in or kicked in. It makes me reframe my thinking on how the crime started. IMO.

 

[Lillymac]

I agree.

when/if they ever find car it will likely be full of evidence.

I totally agree and that's my point. Other answers will come when they find the killer...jmo

 

[Wrenny]

It was from Sheriff Fitzgerald's interview with the Daily Mail 6 December 2018:
Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he said.

Thank you so much. Is there a citation other than the Daily Mail?

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Not, male answered the door (for police). Male "had" answered the door (for perp)

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Lillymac]

It was from Sheriff Fitzgerald's interview with the Daily Mail 6 December 2018:

Fitzgerald said: 'The house wasn't disturbed at all from what we were able to tell. That's part of the confusing part of this case.

'It doesn't appear that anything was taken, it doesn't appear that Jayme packed up any clothing.'

Law enforcement has not ruled out that Jayme unwittingly played a part in the crime. But searches of her social media, cell phone and computer have offered no evidence of a boyfriend or anyone she met anyone online who might have targeted her or her parents.

According to Fitzgerald the killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.

Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he said.

And, despite an inaudible 911 call made from her mother's cell at 12.54am, when police arrived at 12.58am he revealed that there was no sign that Jayme resisted her abductor. There was nothing taken and nothing disturbed.

In fact there was no forensic evidence of any intruder at all.

The sheriff said: 'That's the frustrating part of it. We've had four different lab teams look at the scene before we released it. We were very strategic. When we discovered it was a major crime we sealed it off immediately.

'But if I'm in your house for minutes and I only step five feet inside your home I'm probably not going to leave a big footprint.'

Thank you wise owl! I just got in from shopping at Walmart and was dreading the thought of having to dig out that quote. Thanks again...

 

[Wrenny]

Though it's a month old, I hadn't seen this one before. It answers a couple questions that have been asked. Yes LE had dash cams. They have investigated people who left Jenny-O in the past year, and they are considering similarities to other cases.

FBI examining more video in search for Wisconsin teen

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Still wondering what happened between the last day of school, which would have been October 11..as school was out on Friday October 12. All we know for sure is Jayme and Denise attended the party. Did Jayme stay home alone on Friday, when school was out? What time did James go into work on Sunday and what time did he get off? What was Denise's work schedule?

 

[DutchTreat]

Still wondering what happened between the last day of school, which would have been October 11..as school was out on Friday October 12. All we know for sure is Jayme and Denise attended the party. Did Jayme stay home alone on Friday, when school was out? What time did James go into work on Sunday and what time did he get off? What was Denise's work schedule?

Do you know why there was no school October 12th?

 

[Queencitylaydee]

Do you know why there was no school October 12th?

Teacher inservice

 

[Trino]

Either the killer was very, very lucky, or he was very skilled. I think the latter. Very quick, forceful, effective entry, in and out in about 7 minutes, stepped only 4 - 5 ft inside the house, no footprints, no DNA (that we know), no fingerprints, no voice record, no vehicle description (assuming the originals are no longer suspicious), nothing taken except Jayme, no evidence = no suspect, NOTHING. I just think he planned very well, knew what he was doing, and knew how to accomplish it.

 

[DutchTreat]

Either the killer was very, very lucky, or he was very skilled. I think the latter. Very quick, forceful, effective entry, in and out in about 7 minutes, stepped only 4 - 5 ft inside the house, no footprints, no DNA (that we know), no fingerprints, no voice record, no vehicle description (assuming the originals are no longer suspicious), nothing taken except Jayme, no evidence = no suspect, NOTHING. I just think he planned very well, knew what he was doing, and knew how to accomplish it.

I think this is a very intelligent and/or educated /trained person. No DNA on casings. Does anyone know if this means he absolutely must have worn gloves loading he gun? Or is it hard anyway to get DNA from casings? Or are there guns where you don't have to touch casings?

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks for clarifying.

Actually, the way that it is written, it is not clear which it was. 'advised that the male who is down had answered the door', does not tell us whether the male had answered the door to police, or to the killer.

"317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR.

UNKNOWN IF ANYONE IS MISSING."

 

[deugirtni]

Jayme, who is thought to have been at home during the call, was gone when deputies arrived just a couple of minutes later. The door was open when they got to the house, Fitzgerald said.

Sheriff: No fingerprints, no shoe prints, no DNA in Wisconsin double homicide, missing teen case

Took me a while to re-find this quote from the sherriff- a more recent explanation. The door was open. Nothing about it being shot in or kicked in. It makes me reframe my thinking on how the crime started. IMO.

I think we know for sure that the door was kicked in because it says that on the dispatch log. And if the door had been kicked in, but yet officers reported that the male had answered the door... it brings to ponder whether James answered the door for police, since it doesn't exactly sound like he answered the door for the killer, otherwise why the need to kick it in. jmo.

"317 REQUESTED ERT BE PAGED OUT. ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR."

 

[KLM6]

I think this is a very intelligent and/or educated /trained person. No DNA on casings. Does anyone know if this means he absolutely must have worn gloves loading he gun? Or is it hard anyway to get DNA from casings? Or are there guns where you don't have to touch casings?

Depending on the type of gun used, yes there are loaders for some that you dont have to touch the ammo.