CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #7

[Harikari]

Before you say something is Impossible think about Sherri Papini. A million things are possible however unlikely they may be.

 

[Ccging]

I haven’t, but great question.

I was wondering this also. And if she moved for her job initially why not move to Pueblo to be closer??

 

[Writestuff]

Do we have a working timeline that can be posted? I know there are some discrepancies (when/where K was picked up) but it helps me to take a look at the big picture. We can add and delete/edit as necessary. Also a list of questions/answers if our VI can/is willing to contribute more about KB and her lifestyle and habits.

 

[cody22]

Do we have a working timeline that can be posted? I know there are some discrepancies (when/where K was picked up) but it helps me to take a look at the big picture. We can add and delete/edit as necessary. Also a list of questions/answers if our VI can/is willing to contribute more about KB and her lifestyle and habits.

There is a link to a WS media thread timeline on page 1 of this thread..... The VI is basically a "no show" on this thread for a little while now.

 

[bestill]

<modsnip> So her calling him may have really been a shock to him if you think about it. He may have not realized who she was.

 

[Seattle1]

Mom had PF's phone number so she must have had some type of relationship with him. IMO

I believe it was cited that Cheryl left a message for PF, and he phoned her back. We don't know who she left the message with. (One would expect mom/grandmother would have fiance contact info but this isn't proving to be a normal interaction with family). MOO

 

[Irmese]

LE has not released any evidence that makes them suspect PF (other than it being originate based on statistics of intimate partner violence).

For all we know, LE may be mainly going off tips alone to get warrants, as they had for most of Mollie Tibbetts’s case.

Her disappearance is suspicious and the type of relationship she had with PF sounds “off”/“on”. PF will face intense scrutiny from LE unless they come across evidence leading to another direction.

I have a feeling that this will be a long “ride”.

So we should disregard that by PF's statements, he was the last person to see her and the last person she contacted? I consider any contact with her on that day to be evidence. MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Do we have a working timeline that can be posted? I know there are some discrepancies (when/where K was picked up) but it helps me to take a look at the big picture. We can add and delete/edit as necessary. Also a list of questions/answers if our VI can/is willing to contribute more about KB and her lifestyle and habits.

Here is what I have. It hasn't been updated in several days unfortunately.

Thursday, Nov. 22

• Surveillance footage from Safeway showed Kelsey shopping for groceries with K at 12:27 pm.
• This is the last time Kelsey was seen.
• PF said he saw her later in the afternoon when he picked up K.

Sunday, Nov. 25

• Doss Aviation received texts from her cellphone saying she would not be at work for the next week
• Kelsey’s cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho at 5:13 pm about 600 miles from her home in Woodland Park.
• PF received a text from Kelsey’s phone. Investigators have not revealed what that message said.

Sunday, Dec. 2

• Kelsey’s mother, CB reached out to PF, who called her back and said he hadn’t heard from her since her text on 11/25.
• CB reported Kelsey missing.
• Police conducted a community care takers search on Kelsey’s home, which was empty. Her cars, her makeup, clothes and her toothbrush all appeared untouched since Thanksgiving and cold cinnamon rolls were found on the counter.

Monday, Dec. 3

• Woodland Park Police issued its first appeal to the public.

Wednesday, Dec. 5

• Kelsey’s loved ones created the “Missing Mother – Kelsey Berreth” Facebook page.
• Police say Kelsey was last seen wearing a white shirt, gray sweater, blue pants that may have been jeans, white shoes and had a brown purse.

Thursday, Dec. 6

• Kelsey’s family said that it would be out of character for her to not let anyone know if she planned on flying cross-country, regardless of her experience in the air.
• “She does not own a plane nor do we know of any local friends that she would borrow one from,” they wrote on Facebook. “I don't believe she has ever made a flight without filing a flight plan. We do realize that it is possible to rent a plane, but I believe someone would be missing it by now.”

Friday, Dec. 7

• A prayer vigil was held for Kelsey outside her brother’s home in Tacoma, Washington.

Monday, Dec. 10

• Press conference with WPPD and Kelsey’s mother.
• WPPD is working with CBI, the FBI and officials in Gooding, Idaho.
• All planes at her place of work have been accounted for, and no indication that Kelsey flew somewhere.
• No one has been identified as a suspect in Kelsey’s disappearance.
• Kelsey’s fiancé, CF, was invited to the press conference, but did not come. “That’s a question you would have to ask him,” De Young said of Frazee’s decision to not attend.
• CF is cooperating with police and is watching over his and Kelsey’s young daughter, De Young said.
• Kelsey has never lived with CF, her mother told reporters.
• CB said, “I’d just like to talk to you a little bit about Kelsey,” she said. “She’s not the kind that runs off. This is completely out of character.
• “Kelsey loves her God, she loves her family and friends, and she loves her job,” CB said. “She’s reliable, considerate and honest. … She doesn’t run off, and someone knows where she’s at.”
• Investigators announced they have created an email address dedicated to Kelsey’s case. Anyone with information is asked to email kelsey@city-woodlandpark.com.

Tuesday, Dec. 11

• Woodland Park police released the last known footage that captured Kelsey at Safeway before she disappeared.

Thursday, Dec. 13

• CB spoke to NBC, saying she remains hopeful her daughter will be found.
• “I can’t think of anywhere she’s gone where she hasn’t told me,” CB told NBC. “It’s just not in her character to do something, to just take off and be gone.”
• CB said she spoke with her daughter twice on Thanksgiving, including once when Kelsey needed the details of a recipe.
• “Her voice was fine,” her mother said. “It was a normal day for her.”
• Cb said her daughter did not live with her fiance, Frazee, with whom she has a 1-year-old daughter, but that they have a strong bond.
• “The relationship has been good,” said Cheryl. “They’re loving.”
• CF's attorney, Jeremy Loew issued a statement. His client is cooperating with police and voluntarily released his phone to be searched by investigators and has provided cheek swabs for DNA samples.
• Frazee wasn't present at the press conference because he only learned of it an hour before.
• Loew said he also advised CF against speaking publicly to avoid impeding the investigation.
• A candlelight vigil is planned for Thursday evening at the flagpole at Memorial Park in Woodland Park.

 

[gliving]

Oh wow. So her calling him may have really been a shock to him if you think about it. He may have not realized who she was.

IKR! Edit as the timeline magically appeared right after I posted this. ty PommyMommy.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

Before you say something is Impossible think about Sherri Papini. A million things are possible however unlikely they may be.

This ^ 100x

Many people thought Sherri’s husband was guilty , And even after she returned thought that he had something to do with it, helping her fake it

 

[Ccging]

Has any effort been put into locating KB and PFs online dating platform?

KB or PF could have returned and left excellent clues there.

These online social sites are addictive ... I wonder if both pulled away once they met?

And if not ... maybe we could mine the data

Thoughts?

Awesome thought!!!

 

[jewelsmac]

Occam's razor - it was deliberate to 1) Buy time with the texts to her employers and to fiancé. And 2) Lead the way to believing she really was on her way to see family and maybe even on her way home by then. I don't believe Kelsey had anything to do with her phone at this point.

the one thing that I just can't get past on the texts. So, you take the time to text work and fiance, but not your mom. I would think the point, in both scenarios (she sent the texts or someone else did) is to make sure no one is looking for her. But you don't contact the one person it seems that would actually look for her.

 

[Charlot123]

I think KB and PF were never engaged. Simply, she got pregnant (it can always happen), and to both of them, the pregnancy might have been a total accident. But they decided to keep the baby (not only religious people do it). And - being responsible people - they probably read books that emphasized the importance of both parents being in a child's life from day one. This is why they stayed together through pregnancy and delivery. Hence, the "fiance". And they might have planned to stay together longer, but time had shown them how different they were. She wants to fly, and he lives in a farm with soil and manure. Nothing in common. They grew apart.

It is my feeling that this is what happened. And it is possible that PF is a very good and devoted parent, and might be a nice person. And so is KB. And they tried to do the best for the kid.

Now, how does it all factor into Nov 22nd? I don't know. Either PF is telling mostly the truth except for them breaking up, or something happened accidentally, and there are people who know it was an accident, and try to cover it up - feeling sorry for PF, perhaps?

And his biggest fear is losing the rights for the daughter.

This is what I am thinking about. It is possible that someone helped him, also, more impulsively than thinking about the consequences. And now there is a web of lies and misconceptions, and it goes on.

I am not seeing any parallels between CW and PF. PF, if anything, is not too successful, not too young, definitely not sexy, dude, probably ripe for the family and honestly attached to his kid. I doubt he is controlling, maybe he has impulsive anger and never realised it was a problem.

He should sit down with the LE and talk.

I am almost positive that if PF is involved, it was not intentional.

 

[NanZDrew]

It's likely PF had friends... his roping buddies & friends/neighbors that helped him work cattle, but I have to wonder if KB had many friends since she was relatively new to the area & her place of work was so far away.

I was thinking that as well. He appears to have an active life, and the people that I have known that do team roping seem to see themselves as a family. I think KB could have been very lonely. If she didn't ride horses or know the rodeo life, she might have felt as though she didn't fit in. She worked long hours, got home late. I feel sad for her. I remember moving far away for a job where I did not know a single soul. It was pretty intimidating at first.

 

[Madeleine74]

When LE is ready to sit down and have him answer questions, he will not have a choice. If nothing else, they will arrest him.

LE can arrest him, but no one in LE or any government employee can force him to talk or answer questions, ever. I know this seems somehow ridiculous, but this is an important and fundamental right in the U.S.

Source: 5th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution

 

[Inthedetails]

the one thing that I just can't get past on the texts. So, you take the time to text work and fiance, but not your mom. I would thing the point, in both scenarios (she sent the texts or someone else did) is to make sure no one is looking for her. But you don't contact the one person it seems that would actually look for her.

I'm not sure KB and her mom texted each other. I'm thinking they called each other and spoke on the phone. That's a hunch, not fact. It's easier to send a text from someone's phone pretending to be that person, but you can't fake a phone call - hence, mom wasn't contacted.

jmo, hunch

 

[playthe361]

Wow! This is America. We are sentencing him before he has been arrested and tried?

When LE is ready to sit down and have him answer questions, he will not have a choice. If nothing else, they will arrest him. They know all kinds of mind games to play.

We have been given very little information at this point. I remember how many of my opinions changed from the time Watts was first arrested and from when they dumped the information. All that information made so many things different (in that case worse) from the barebone facts that we received from the media. We know even less here, including whether or not he is guilty. This is a small community and I am pretty sure that those people have a fair better picture of his character than what we have been allowed to see. In small towns, everybody knows everything about everybody. I would imagine if those people think he is guilty they have already pulled their business, and if they believe he is innocent, they are probably rallying around him.

I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for what you said here. I have put a lot of energy into staying objective, in a neutral place, since I started to follow this closely. PF is the primary POI in this case, for many reasons. He's the logical choice. However, the lack of firm facts, from so few sources and with so much conflicting information out there, it is almost impossible for me to venture down the path so many seem to be on. I am not near convinced he is guilty of anything at this point. He has chosen to do or not do things that most of the country disagrees with. He is not speaking to LE, the media, he isn't showing up at conferences or orgainizing searches for KB. Simply put, he isnt doing what everyone wants him to do. People don't like that. We have to remember, he is taking care of a baby through all of this. He does have to continue working to provide for those he's responsible for through all of this. For all we know, despite what anyone thinks they know, maybe he was used to KB vanishing for days at a time without contacting anyone. Maybe she has personal issues that would drive this behavior. Maybe PF is keeping quiet to avoid making very personal things public, out of respect for the people in his life. We dont know! The things he has chosen to do or not do, say or not say, things that make him seem guilty of something, are things that I consider to be logical and safe. He has been able to keep the child out of the spotlight. He has likely been able to continue working to some degree. He doesnt have to worry about anyone spinning every word he speaks. I have to say, if I knew I had nothing to do with the disappearance, I would do much of the same.
I will go back to what I have said many times, there isn't enough, without a doubt information about anything, to put me on one side of the fence or another. I just hope LE doesn't have blinders on, focused on something that may not be. There has to be other possibilities they are looking into. Who knows?

 

[v0x]

Here is what I have. It hasn't been updated in several days unfortunately.

Thursday, Nov. 22

• Surveillance footage from Safeway showed Kelsey shopping for groceries with K at 12:27 pm.
• This is the last time Kelsey was seen.
• PF said he saw her later in the afternoon when he picked up K.

Sunday, Nov. 25

• Doss Aviation received texts from her cellphone saying she would not be at work for the next week
• Kelsey’s cellphone pinged near Gooding, Idaho at 5:13 pm about 600 miles from her home in Woodland Park.
• PF received a text from Kelsey’s phone. Investigators have not revealed what that message said.

Sunday, Dec. 2

• Kelsey’s mother, CB reached out to PF, who called her back and said he hadn’t heard from her since her text on 11/25.
• CB reported Kelsey missing.
• Police conducted a community care takers search on Kelsey’s home, which was empty. Her cars, her makeup, clothes and her toothbrush all appeared untouched since Thanksgiving and cold cinnamon rolls were found on the counter.

Monday, Dec. 3

• Woodland Park Police issued its first appeal to the public.

Wednesday, Dec. 5

• Kelsey’s loved ones created the “Missing Mother – Kelsey Berreth” Facebook page.
• Police say Kelsey was last seen wearing a white shirt, gray sweater, blue pants that may have been jeans, white shoes and had a brown purse.

Thursday, Dec. 6

• Kelsey’s family said that it would be out of character for her to not let anyone know if she planned on flying cross-country, regardless of her experience in the air.
• “She does not own a plane nor do we know of any local friends that she would borrow one from,” they wrote on Facebook. “I don't believe she has ever made a flight without filing a flight plan. We do realize that it is possible to rent a plane, but I believe someone would be missing it by now.”

Friday, Dec. 7

• A prayer vigil was held for Kelsey outside her brother’s home in Tacoma, Washington.

Monday, Dec. 10

• Press conference with WPPD and Kelsey’s mother.
• WPPD is working with CBI, the FBI and officials in Gooding, Idaho.
• All planes at her place of work have been accounted for, and no indication that Kelsey flew somewhere.
• No one has been identified as a suspect in Kelsey’s disappearance.
• Kelsey’s fiancé, CF, was invited to the press conference, but did not come. “That’s a question you would have to ask him,” De Young said of Frazee’s decision to not attend.
• CF is cooperating with police and is watching over his and Kelsey’s young daughter, De Young said.
• Kelsey has never lived with CF, her mother told reporters.
• CB said, “I’d just like to talk to you a little bit about Kelsey,” she said. “She’s not the kind that runs off. This is completely out of character.
• “Kelsey loves her God, she loves her family and friends, and she loves her job,” CB said. “She’s reliable, considerate and honest. … She doesn’t run off, and someone knows where she’s at.”
• Investigators announced they have created an email address dedicated to Kelsey’s case. Anyone with information is asked to email kelsey@city-woodlandpark.com.

Tuesday, Dec. 11

• Woodland Park police released the last known footage that captured Kelsey at Safeway before she disappeared.

Thursday, Dec. 13

• CB spoke to NBC, saying she remains hopeful her daughter will be found.
• “I can’t think of anywhere she’s gone where she hasn’t told me,” CB told NBC. “It’s just not in her character to do something, to just take off and be gone.”
• CB said she spoke with her daughter twice on Thanksgiving, including once when Kelsey needed the details of a recipe.
• “Her voice was fine,” her mother said. “It was a normal day for her.”
• Cb said her daughter did not live with her fiance, Frazee, with whom she has a 1-year-old daughter, but that they have a strong bond.
• “The relationship has been good,” said Cheryl. “They’re loving.”
• CF's attorney, Jeremy Loew issued a statement. His client is cooperating with police and voluntarily released his phone to be searched by investigators and has provided cheek swabs for DNA samples.
• Frazee wasn't present at the press conference because he only learned of it an hour before.
• Loew said he also advised CF against speaking publicly to avoid impeding the investigation.
• A candlelight vigil is planned for Thursday evening at the flagpole at Memorial Park in Woodland Park.

Who is CF? I think you meant PF there?

 

[jewelsmac]

I'm stuck on those final phone texts to her employer and boyfriend. We know the text to her employer evolved around not being at work the next week or so. Some people assume the text to the boyfriend was of a similar nature. So why no text to her mother? Why? Why? Why? Many, including myself will suspect that someone else placed those texts. And yet it is just as possible that she had an altercation with a family member and that is why they did not know she was missing for a long time--and maybe why she did take off, willingly. Yet now, something had happened that allowed that three day search warrant to be secured. And it becomes more difficult to believe she left on her own free will. In my opinion it seems reasonable to believe they have revealed additional info to suggest that someone has been less than honest.

yes yes yes!!! the not texting mom thing is just.... Anyway. if she left on her own , you think she would have given mom some kind of story when she talked to her just before she disappeared.

 

[MassGuy]

the one thing that I just can't get past on the texts. So, you take the time to text work and fiance, but not your mom. I would thing the point, in both scenarios (she sent the texts or someone else did) is to make sure no one is looking for her. But you don't contact the one person it seems that would actually look for her.

Exactly. You text work to delay discovery of her disappearance.

You text the boyfriend in order to provide distance between the potential victim and potential assailant.

He’s hundreds of miles away, and she is traveling to parts unknown.

Yeah right. That won’t fool LE.