CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #7

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This baffles me greatly. I don’t think we know if that’s the case (that PF hasn’t allowed a visit between grandmother and grandchild), but how could we surmise anything else especially after CB’s interview with The Today show. The reporter specifically asked CB if she had intentions to visit with her granddaughter. CB’s response seemed very controlled, almost to the point of attempting to appear not controlling, to appear unworried .....CB basically stated that she was unsure if a visit would occur at this time. My feeling is that this statement was planned/staged with LE. If not....simply odd!

Her demeanour is unusual, and so might be the choice of words, but she is not a media person and very few ordinary people, having been seen on TV, seem to withstand public scrutiny. The last private person public considered "cute" and "hot" was CW, so public makes mistakes all the time.

She was the person who reported her daughter missing, for our purpose, it should have been enough.
 
Has K’s aunt been back on? I’m curious why someone would join and not give more info - but maybe she’s not allowed to.

We don’t have much to work with factually, and suspicions aren’t facts. At this point they seem to be making it hard for other options to be seriously considered.

Like....her wanting to disappear for whatever reasons - but having an accident during that short time. Ditto if someone picked her up. They could have gone somewhere and she could have had an accident there. She could have had a true accident at PF’s place and he could have freaked out. His parents could have picked her up to take her to dinner at his house, whether they planned to harm her or just try to smooth things over - and something could have happened there. There is No scenario that makes sense and no one is trying to help us. No one is giving us Any facts.

I’m trying not to even think about this case bc we have nothing to work with. And there Is certainly information; we’re just not privy to it. Feel like we’re collectively banging our heads against the wall. My time is better spent doing almost anything than this.....until or unless we have something to work with.
 
Take the fiance out of the equation for a minute. There are a few facts which are strongly against the possibility of KB disappearing because of mental illness:

1. LE has said her disappearance is "suspicious"-- they would not say that if they thought she left on her own or may have self harmed.

2. Kelsey is a flight instructor and commercial pilot. She has to pass regular medical testing, including mental health testing and drug screening in order to keep her FFA certification. There are no indications she was ever in danger of failing her medical exams or losing her job.

3. There is nothing to point to KB having any form mental illness. Not one thing. Certainly it happens, and is the cause of many missing persons, but it does not seem to be the case here.

JMO.

1. This particular case seems to be loaded with statements being made and words being used to elicit a response or reaction from someone or a group of people. I am choosing to take the word "suspicious" as, "we have no idea what happened."

2. There has been more than one incident, fairly recently, when a commercial pilot flew a commercial airliner, full of people, into the ground or into the side of a mountain. For example...

"He was 27, loved to fly and apparently raised no suspicions or showed obvious signs that he was troubled."

This is the opening paragraph of a story about Andreas Lubitz. A commercial pilot that killed 150 passengers when he intentionally flew an Airbus into a mountainside in the French Alps.

Pilots, professional or otherwise are human beings too.

3. I personally have no clue as to what kind of people KB, PF, the mother, brother, police chief, anyone involved in this thing really are. Very little information provided make any sense when I piece it all together. None of us knows much of anything about any of this.

Someone here stated that KB was obviously the more responsible adult because she purchased the home she lived in. How does anyone of us know details of her home purchase? Lol. Maybe she inherited some money that allowed her to buy that place. Who knows? It was stated here that PF was more likely to have mental issues because anyone his age that lives with their mother must have issues! My mother lived with me for a long period of time after she fell and broke her leg. She was old and needed help. Maybe it's his home and the mother lives with him for whatever reason.

I guess I'm growing tired of seeing the same assumptions being made over and over in this case. I feel like making assumptions, being completely convinced one particular person is the only person who could've done something wrong, makes it almost impossible to see other legitimate possibilities in something like this. I have no clue what happened in this thing. I do not feel like I have any truly reliable and without a doubt information to lead me in one direction or another. And, with each day that passes the less sense any of this makes.
 
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See my response above yours. Yup, we’re saying exactly the same thing. Maybe I’m grumpy bc I’m tired - but I’m getting a little [edit]about not being able to get any info. Any!
 
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It’s a risk, that’s for sure.

This just made me think of something.

If he did travel all that distance to create a false trail, then it would stand to reason that the body made atleast part of the trip.

But, I believe that she was likely killed on the 22nd.

Three days is a hell of a long time to hang on to a dead body.

I’m not sure that most people would take that risk.

So he either hid the body for that 3 day period and then moved it (on or around the 25th), or her body may be a lot closer to home than people might expect.

Yes. I doubt he'd hide the body anywhere near where the phone was being pinged. The ping is meant as misdirection. So the body should be in a different location altogether.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if the remains were hidden somewhere on his property or very nearby. The remains may have been 'altered' considerably by now, so there is no actual grave site. Maybe just ashes or something similar?
 
1. This particular case seems to be loaded with statements being made and words being used to elicit a response or reaction from someone or a group of people. I am choosing to take the word "suspicious" as, "we have no idea what happened."

2. There has been more than one incident, fairly recently, when a commercial pilot flew a commercial airliner, full of people, into the ground or into the side of a mountain. For example...

"He was 27, loved to fly and apparently raised no suspicions or showed obvious signs that he was troubled."

This is the opening paragraph of a story about Andreas Lubitz. A commercial pilot that killed 150 passengers when he intentionally flew an Airbus into a mountainside in the French Alps.

Pilots, professional or otherwise are human beings too.

3. I personally have no clue as to what kind of people KB, PF, the mother, brother, police chief, anyone involved in this thing really are. Very little information provided make any sense when I piece it all together. None of us knows much of anything about any of this.

Someone here stated that KB was obviously the more responsible adult because she purchased the home she lived in. How does anyone of us know details of her home purchase? Lol. Maybe she inherited some money that allowed her to buy that place. Who knows? It was stated here that PF was more likely to have mental issues because anyone his age that lives with their mother must have issues! My mother lived with me for a long period of time after she fell and broke her leg. She was old and needed help. Maybe it's his home and the mother lives with him for whatever reason.

I guess I'm growing tired of seeing the same assumptions being made over and over in this case. I feel like making assumptions, being completely convinced one particular person is the only person who could've done something wrong, makes it almost impossible to see other legitimate possibilities in something like this. I have no clue what happened in this thing. I do not feel like I have any truly reliable and without a doubt information to lead me in one direction or another. And, with each day that passes the less sense any of this makes.
Hey! You almost said exactly the same as I did right above you. I’m pretty frustrated at this point. Insomnia doesn’t help but no one wants our help enough to give us any info. They may their reasons of course. Sigh.
 
1. This particular case seems to be loaded with statements being made and words being used to elicit a response or reaction from someone or a group of people. I am choosing to take the word "suspicious" as, "we have no idea what happened."

2. There has been more than one incident, fairly recently, when a commercial pilot flew a commercial airliner, full of people, into the ground or into the side of a mountain. For example...

"He was 27, loved to fly and apparently raised no suspicions or showed obvious signs that he was troubled."

This is the opening paragraph of a story about Andreas Lubitz. A commercial pilot that killed 150 passengers when he intentionally flew an Airbus into a mountainside in the French Alps.

Pilots, professional or otherwise are human beings too.

3. I personally have no clue as to what kind of people KB, PF, the mother, brother, police chief, anyone involved in this thing really are. Very little information provided make any sense when I piece it all together. None of us knows much of anything about any of this.

Someone here stated that KB was obviously the more responsible adult because she purchased the home she lived in. How does anyone of us know details of her home purchase? Lol. Maybe she inherited some money that allowed her to buy that place. Who knows? It was stated here that PF was more likely to have mental issues because anyone his age that lives with their mother must have issues! My mother lived with me for a long period of time after she fell and broke her leg. She was old and needed help. Maybe it's his home and the mother lives with him for whatever reason.

I guess I'm growing tired of seeing the same assumptions being made over and over in this case. I feel like making assumptions, being completely convinced one particular person is the only person who could've done something wrong, makes it almost impossible to see other legitimate possibilities in something like this. I have no clue what happened in this thing. I do not feel like I have any truly reliable and without a doubt information to lead me in one direction or another. And, with each day that passes the less sense any of this makes.

They had to get enough probable cause to search the house, the property and the truck and to impound the truck though. So I don’t believe they would do that strictly to put pressure on him, though I do believe LEs is choosing there words very carefully and trying to persuade him to sit down with them.

People are making assumptions that PF is involved somehow because he was the last one to see her and didn’t even report her missing. It’s just bizarre. There’s certainly a chance he’s not involved but I don’t think it’s likely. Why wouldn’t he report her missing? Why won’t he speak to the media or LE, and why won’t he let her mother see the child?
 
They had to get enough probable cause to search the house, the property and the truck and to impound the truck though. So I don’t believe they would do that strictly to put pressure on him, though I do believe LEs is choosing there words very carefully and trying to persuade him to sit down with them.

People are making assumptions that PF is involved somehow because he was the last one to see her and didn’t even report her missing. It’s just bizarre. There’s certainly a chance he’s not involved but I don’t think it’s likely. Why wouldn’t he report her missing? Why won’t he speak to the media or LE, and why won’t he let her mother see the child?
His lawyer won’t let him talk!!!!!!!
They had to get enough probable cause to search the house, the property and the truck and to impound the truck though. So I don’t believe they would do that strictly to put pressure on him, though I do believe LEs is choosing there words very carefully and trying to persuade him to sit down with them.

People are making assumptions that PF is involved somehow because he was the last one to see her and didn’t even report her missing. It’s just bizarre. There’s certainly a chance he’s not involved but I don’t think it’s likely. Why wouldn’t he report her missing? Why won’t he speak to the media or LE, and why won’t he let her mother see the child?
This has been answered about 100 times. His lawyer is not letting him talk to people. There was a lawyer on here saying that if he was the lawyer on the case he also wouldn’t allow PF to talk. Men can be completely innocent and still go to jail. People all over are already calling for his blood so I sure as hell would not talk at all if I were him. Certainly not the media which man just to screw up most of what they report. The media is all about sensationalism. They know that people think that PF harmed her so they’re going to make their narrative somehow fit that picture. Ultimately it’s not helpful for anyone.

Also, we don’t know anything. We don’t know that he was the last person to see her. He’s the last person we know of who saw her but that’s all we know. There are plenty of other people who could’ve seen her after he did.
 
Yes. I doubt he'd hide the body anywhere near where the phone was being pinged. The ping is meant as misdirection. So the body should be in a different location altogether.

I wouldn't be totally surprised if the remains were hidden somewhere on his property or very nearby. The remains may have been 'altered' considerably by now, so there is no actual grave site. Maybe just ashes or something similar?
Wyoming (enroute to Idaho), is where you leave things that you don't ever want found.
 
1. This particular case seems to be loaded with statements being made and words being used to elicit a response or reaction from someone or a group of people. I am choosing to take the word "suspicious" as, "we have no idea what happened."

2. There has been more than one incident, fairly recently, when a commercial pilot flew a commercial airliner, full of people, into the ground or into the side of a mountain. For example...

"He was 27, loved to fly and apparently raised no suspicions or showed obvious signs that he was troubled."

This is the opening paragraph of a story about Andreas Lubitz. A commercial pilot that killed 150 passengers when he intentionally flew an Airbus into a mountainside in the French Alps.

Pilots, professional or otherwise are human beings too.

3. I personally have no clue as to what kind of people KB, PF, the mother, brother, police chief, anyone involved in this thing really are. Very little information provided make any sense when I piece it all together. None of us knows much of anything about any of this.

Someone here stated that KB was obviously the more responsible adult because she purchased the home she lived in. How does anyone of us know details of her home purchase? Lol. Maybe she inherited some money that allowed her to buy that place. Who knows? It was stated here that PF was more likely to have mental issues because anyone his age that lives with their mother must have issues! My mother lived with me for a long period of time after she fell and broke her leg. She was old and needed help. Maybe it's his home and the mother lives with him for whatever reason.

I guess I'm growing tired of seeing the same assumptions being made over and over in this case. I feel like making assumptions, being completely convinced one particular person is the only person who could've done something wrong, makes it almost impossible to see other legitimate possibilities in something like this. I have no clue what happened in this thing. I do not feel like I have any truly reliable and without a doubt information to lead me in one direction or another. And, with each day that passes the less sense any of this makes.
They may have no idea what happened, but it is clear that they don’t believe that Kelsey left on her own.

Local authorities have called in state and federal agencies to assist in this investigation. There is likely a well founded reason for that.

People disappear all the time, most of the time it is by choice.

Obviously something is different here, as you don’t see this type of response for no reason.

That search warrant would be based on evidence, and wouldn’t purely be an effort to rattle their suspect.

I believe it to have been sought and executed in good faith.

Yes, assumptions are being made.

Assumptions based on the few, but telling facts here.

The last person known to see Kelsey alive, did not report her missing.

Those text messages and phone ping, appear to have been an effort to mislead authorities, as they in no way jibe with someone who has willingly left on their own.

Without her car.

Without her baby.

Without a trace.
 
All he would have had to do to keep her in state, absent an existing parenting plan, is go to court during the daily ex parte docket and ask for an emergency order restraining her from taking the child out of state. He could have even asked for emergency temporary custody. I had to do this and it was done before lunch time. He didn’t even need to give her advance notice. They would have given him the temp order and figured it out at the official hearing. A simple google search would have told him that.

Also, if she left the state with the baby, the court would still make her bring the kid back pending resolution of the case. That is the the state that had jurisdiction over the three of them. It’s not like he couldn’t go and kidnap the kid back. She would have needed a court order for custody to prevent that and the court in her new state would most likely decline the case due to not having jurisdiction. This is what happened to my sister when she moved states to get away from abusive ex. She had to go back and do court in her own state because he filed in the home state and they made her move back with the kids.

I am still wondering if he is on the birth certificate and /or has legal proof of paternity yet. If not, he might have been worried that she could leave the state and it would take quite awhile for him to resolve the situation.

If they were never married, never lived together, and he was not on the BC, it might not have been that easy for him to prevent her from moving back to her home state. JMO
 
yes yes yes!!! the not texting mom thing is just.... Anyway. if she left on her own , you think she would have given mom some kind of story when she talked to her just before she disappeared.
I'll play Devil's Advocate (with myself).... She speaks on the phone with her mom. Something is said that makes one of them very angry. A verbal fight breaks loose. Mad as hell, she takes off from home, texts the employer and the boyfriend. And not mom.
However, with a car and a child back home (not to mention those darn muffins), this scenario seems unlikely. And arranging daycare by text seems strange too. And why hadn't she called to check in on the kid for 10 days... No, I firmly believe her mother was not called because she was not in a position to access her--or her boss, or her boyfriend, blah, blah, blah....
 
I am still wondering if he is on the birth certificate and /or has legal proof of paternity yet. If not, he might have been worried that she could leave the state and it would take quite awhile for him to resolve the situation.

If they were never married, never lived together, and he was not on the BC, it might not have been that easy for him to prevent her from moving back to her home state. JMO
From the beginning, this has felt like two steps forward, 8 steps backward! We don't even know where the child was born! :eek:
 
Wyoming (enroute to Idaho), is where you leave things that you don't ever want found.
See my response above yours. Yup, we’re saying exactly the same thing. Maybe I’m grumpy bc I’m tired - but I’m getting a little pussy about not being able to get any info. Any!
For some reason I can’t get the right quote to show up. But Massguy and I said the same thing.
 
They may have no idea what happened, but it is clear that they don’t believe that Kelsey left on her own.

Local authorities have called in state and federal agencies to assist in this investigation. There is likely a well founded reason for that.

People disappear all the time, most of the time it is by choice.

Obviously something is different here, as you don’t see this type of response for no reason.

That search warrant would be based on evidence, and wouldn’t purely be an effort to rattle their suspect.

I believe it to have been sought and executed in good faith.

Yes, assumptions are being made.

Assumptions based on the few, but telling facts here.

The last person known to see Kelsey alive, did not report her missing.

Those text messages and phone ping, appear to have been an effort to mislead authorities, as they in no way jibe with someone who has willingly left on their own.

Without her car.

Without her baby.

Without a trace.

Probable cause is compelling evidence, signed off by a judge. It has nothing to do with “his lawyer isn’t allowing him to talk.”


I am so glad you guys are working on this thread! The focus stays on edge! Appreciated!
 
His lawyer won’t let him talk!!!!!!!

This has been answered about 100 times. His lawyer is not letting him talk to people. There was a lawyer on here saying that if he was the lawyer on the case he also wouldn’t allow PF to talk. Men can be completely innocent and still go to jail. People all over are already calling for his blood so I sure as hell would not talk at all if I were him. Certainly not the media which man just to screw up most of what they report.

I mentioned this yesterday, if I was in PFs current situation, especially if I knew I had done nothing wrong, I would do almost everything the same way he has done. I would not want to be anymore front and center than I know I am going to be, without giving any statements or speaking directly to anyone at length. I would know that most folks immediately consider me the primary suspect, no matter what. I would know the media is going to be parked in front of my home. I would know anything I said or did was going to be picked apart and spun out to the masses by every expert, every human being that had knowledge of the case. If I had a 15 month old to care for, knowing after all of it was over, I was going to be responsible for raising and providing for my child for years to come, I would do everything I could to maintain my work, business, etc. I would want to do these things as out of sight as I could. Just because he is not doing or saying what the public thinks he should be doing or saying in all of this does not make any of it wrong. What he has done has been safe and the path of least resistance for him and what might be happening on his side of the street.

I am not saying that I believe this guy has done nothing wrong. I am saying that I have no idea one way or the other. Because of that, I do not feel it is productive or helpful to convince myself that one particular thing has to be true. Especially when I have a pile of conflicting information and a bunch of peoples assumptions to go on.
 
Not at all

But it is a hip fun popular place

It is country and western

Country and western folks do not drive past the only c&w bar ..
To drive 20 miles into a city looking for another c&w bar

It would be like swallowing bubble gum to get a fresh stick.

If they were not regulars there ... they were not dating ... dates occur at restaurants

I hate to be contrary, but none of those things may apply to the couple. Perhaps they didn't like "hip, fun, popular" places. Maybe they preferred quieter, more out of the way joints. I do. And, as a c&w fan, I would gladly drive 20 extra miles into the city if there was a country music bar that I liked better.

Then again, when the flavor's gone I also throw out my chewing gum for fresh sticks and my dates and I rarely went to restaurants. :)
 
They had to get enough probable cause to search the house, the property and the truck and to impound the truck though. So I don’t believe they would do that strictly to put pressure on him, though I do believe LEs is choosing there words very carefully and trying to persuade him to sit down with them.

People are making assumptions that PF is involved somehow because he was the last one to see her and didn’t even report her missing. It’s just bizarre. There’s certainly a chance he’s not involved but I don’t think it’s likely. Why wouldn’t he report her missing? Why won’t he speak to the media or LE, and why won’t he let her mother see the child?

I agree it’s mind boggling why he won’t talk to LE or attend press conferences or the media.

But as I have said, despite seeing him as likely to be involved, there’s a chance that we are missing a significant part of the story. Note the quote below from her cousin which seems to suggest the truth is long and complicated.

We asked her cousin, Jodee Garretson, why there was that time span between when she was last seen and when she was reported missing.

"I think there's information that we just don't all know yet because it is tied to the case, and I don't doubt that when all the information comes out, it's going to be understandable at that time," Garretson said. "It's a long story and that's not all something that can be shared right now."

Community holds vigil for mother missing from Woodland Park since Thanksgiving

Secondly, in the presser, when asked if PF was a suspect, LE responded that he was the father of her child, let’s leave it at that. Why wouldn’t he have said that PF is her FIANCÉ, let’s leave it at that? Sincere question, because I don’t know the answer, but I haven’t seen an example where LE working the case ever called PF her fiancé.

Is there any possibility they were never engaged to begin with or haven’t been for a long time? If PF didn’t have a real relationship with Kelsey and was purely co-parenting, this is one possible explanation for why he would not insert himself into press conferences or media.

Again, I still think the most likely person to be involved is PF. But, could the long, complicated story be that they were never engaged or haven’t been for a long time?
 
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