CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[susiQ]

even with his fiancee and child 20 minutes away?

I imagine it's more complicated than that. Kelsey was looking forward to marriage according to her mother. It appears finances were holding that off, OR was his excuse not to marry. I'm not making excuses for him. I'm really not feeling much for him at the moment. Just running a farm/ranch is demanding and it was probably easier to spend most of his time there. Truth is, we know very little about the intimate details of the relationship.

 

[gitana1]

she may have more of a right to visitation or custody if KB is found (deceased) and/or PF is charged.

If he's charged and jailed, then she would have a chance at guardianship. But unless she can establish an ongoing relationship with the baby which included frequent childcare and contact, she wouldn't prevail on grandparent's visitation against the will of the alive parent.

Very unlikely.

But someone would have to care for her. If his mother is disabled, her mother would be a contender and could possibly get visitation through a guardianship contest even if another relative prevailed.

 

[Jennifer17]

You keep mentioning a girlfriend. Do you know he had a girlfriend and if so how?

He has heard some gossip on a Fb page.

 

[BRRI]

@KOAA
We also learned today she lived in a nearby unit first before moving into her current one, according to the neighbor. I’m not sure what caused the move.

so here we have it. she lived close by before.

That makes sense. Probably how she chose her current property, same neighborhood

 

[MyBelle]

No, not at all, but she could say something to the other granny when asked where is mummy. It would not stand up in a court, but still could be said.

The baby isn't going to be asked any leading questions by anybody including her grandmother. JMO

 

[allboys]

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 1h1 hour ago
JUST IN: One of Kelsey Berreth’s neighbors tells me she saw Patrick Frazee arrive at Berreth’s townhome on Thanksgiving Day between 12:30 and 1 p.m. She says she recognized the red truck, having saw him drive through multiple times to pick up their daughter. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth

Oh, man. This gives me a lying in wait feel.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do we know if she possibly was renting the same town home before she purchased it? I don't know that a previous address in Woodland Park has been mentioned. I could be wrong, though.

Totally possible. I have not seen any previous CO addresses for Kelsey. Only the PO box address.

ETA: Nevermind, just saw she rented a nearby unit before buying: CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

 

[MassGuy]

I have a child just about the exact same age and while I’m sure there is damage done when they witness something awful, he could never speak about it because his vocabulary isn’t there. He’s fairly “average” in terms of language development so perhaps she could be advanced. I doubt i though. I think he sounds controlling and that’s what this is about. Also, the fear of handing her over and not getting her back, maybe?

Agreed. This child could have been the motive for the crime. He may have been controlling to the point of killing for her.

He’s not about to play nice and do the right thing.

Nothing known about him thus far, demonstrates that he exercises sound judgement and has compassion.

No matter what happened, one thing is plain as day, he doesn’t care about his missing fiancé.

It’s quite possible that there’s another reason he seemingly doesn’t care...

 

[Jennifer17]

I imagine it's more complicated than that. Kelsey was looking forward to marriage according to her mother. It appears finances were holding that off, OR was his excuse not to marry. I'm not making excuses for him. I'm really not feeling much for him at the moment. Just running a farm/ranch is demanding and it was probably easier to spend most of his time there. Truth is, we know very little about the intimate details of the relationship.

BBM. Again, it is 35 acres, that is hardly a ranch that he needs to be on 24/7

 

[KSinMT]

Thanks, that makes sense for the grocery store times Pommy. As for the neighbors, see above quote by Denvergirl. I'm under the impression that we have two different neighbors being quoted here. One was out of town and didn't see anything on Thanksgiving (but knows PF's red truck and sees it often). The other neighbor quoted in the tweets above that Denvergirl posted saw the truck at KB's home between 12:30 and 1 PM but didn't see PF nor KB. This really tightens up the timeline if we go with 12:27 as the time she left the store:

12:05 KB enters Safeway with Baby K
12:27 KB leave store with Baby K
12:30-1:00 PF arrives at KB's home

PF might have been there waiting for KB when she got back from the store. I have a feeling this is why she never got a chance to put the cinnamon rolls away.

MOO.

I sure wish we knew what she bought at the store and if she got groceries/household items, were they put away? Or was PF already there waiting when she got home from the store and she just hopped in the truck with him and the baby and left?

 

[otto]

Possibilities I have had in my head:

PF:

• Cunning, "lawyered-up" ASAP and has LE in his family (someone said his brother is a police officer?)
  
• Did not report KB missing
• IF there was a break-up, as KB's aunt said, on Thanksgiving... this leaves me highly suspicious of him.
• Another question is, if KB truly broke up that day or if they were long broken up before Thanksgiving and it's simply something KB told her family?

Love interests:

• KB, if she was broken up with PF or "on/off" with him, was likely dating

Questions:
If they are Christians, did they attend a church where people got to know either of them well?

What kind of relationship does KB have with her mom? Are they "BFFs", rarely talk, or on bad terms?

What is KB's relationship with the rest of her family, e.g. father, brother, aunts, uncles, cousins, and etc.?

What interested KB in pursuing a career as a flight instructor? Has she traveled to different countries?

Is KB full-time or part-time? From KB's mom's statements, it sounds like KB was full-time.

Was teaching flight classes the main job of KB?

Who did KB interact with at work?

Did KB move to Colorado for her job?

What was KB's family's reaction to her pregnancy? Were they supportive? Were they pushing her to marry PF?

Did KB meet PF from an online dating website or app such as Tinder?

Was KB keeping her relationship with PF private from her family and simply telling them they were having a long engagement to get them "off her back"?

Is there a legal document that allowed him time with the daughter? If not, perhaps Kelsey told him that their daughter was staying with her and to go to court if he had a problem. That could be enough to set things in motion such that she is no longer alive.

 

[Marli61]

@KOAA
We also learned today she lived in a nearby unit first before moving into her current one, according to the neighbor. I’m not sure what caused the move.

so here we have it. she lived close by before.

Haha... really has our sleuthing heads spinning!!!

 

[missy1974]

and to clear up any confusion...


Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Replying to @SusanTroscinski @gigglingtoes and
I apologize for the confusion. She has seen a man driving the truck dropping off & picking up a baby over the last two years. She saw the truck again Thanksgiving Day, but on that day, she didn’t see anyone. Does that clear it up?

 

[zecats]

That was actually one of my very first thoughts. Maybe she was on a tight timeline, but yea, if not, I can’t see why she wouldn’t wait until after the drop off/pick up

We don't know what she purchased there do we? Quite likely she needed something for the baby , to send along with her to her dad's. Anything - someone upthread mentioned diapers, for example. Maybe the baby was teething or lost her "binky." That makes the most sense to me as to why she would shop before handing her off to her father. jmo

 

[GoJacks]

That makes sense. Probably how she chose her current property, same neighborhood

true.

I assumed she lived in florissant before woodland park. since she had a po box there.

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know if she possibly was renting the same town home before she purchased it? I don't know that a previous address in Woodland Park has been mentioned. I could be wrong, though.

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Replying to @xxxxxxx
We also learned today she lived in a nearby unit first before moving into her current one, according to the neighbor. I’m not sure what caused the move.

8:21 PM - 17 Dec 2018

 

[katie565]

I take it all with a grain of salt. If PF is really badly abusive to animals, he, as someone has said, would be out of business. If anyone witnessed PF abusing the horse, why didn't people complain? I'd simply call the police, but there is PETA, etc. So either it was an isolated situation, or something personal.

About his ex-girlfriend. He was not abusive but he cheated on her. This is one side of the story. Hers. Translated via her current boyfriend.

I am not trying to defend PF, I think his behavior is the strangest I ever saw, but I don't think that the two stories I have mentioned can worsen his situation.

It’s quite possible that people did complain. If I lived there, I would. I can’t tell you how many calls go through to animal control, the police and independent rescues. In some places, laws are improving but not nearly enough and that’s assuming you can get someone to come out and investigate. That could take days, weeks and even months. Then, when an investigator gets there, the animals are first and foremost seen as property so the owners generally have to be persuaded to give up their neglected or abused animal. If not, there is a series of steps like educating them on proper care, providing shelter, getting them off chains and many steps before you can prove abuse and remove their “property.” You could end up with court dates. Guess I’m saying, it Would be very nice to step in and interfere/rescue an abused animal but it takes time. Sometimes the animals are actually dead by the time an order has come down. And out in the country like that...? I honestly don’t know how strong/active the rescue community is.

There are animals being abused everywhere, in every neighborhood. Most people don’t realize. There are too many abusers and too few helpers. Sad, but true

 

[alucardsdream]

and to clear up any confusion...


Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Replying to @SusanTroscinski @gigglingtoes and
I apologize for the confusion. She has seen a man driving the truck dropping off & picking up a baby over the last two years. She saw the truck again Thanksgiving Day, but on that day, she didn’t see anyone. Does that clear it up?

Dropping off a 15-month-old baby for the past two years...do they fact check anything anymore?

 

[MassGuy]

Dropping off a 15-month-old baby for the past two years...do they fact check anything anymore?

Haaaa. That math don’t compute.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Phrased that way ... it is a good question!

Compliments

Working backward

If she was going on a date to dinner,
She would need the daughter to have a sitter

The only sitter on Thanksgiving was PF

The only way to be fair to PF, was to tell him she was breaking up first

That would have been tough

BBM
Do you have ANYTHING legitimate to base these assumptions on here? I'm trying to be as respectful as possible, but you just can't throw unsubstantiated random crap out here. Not cool.

 

[Bill Carson]

And they had enough of something to warrant a return the next day with excavation equipment.

Could they have been using the backhoe to restore property that they had already dug up?