CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[Auntie Cipation]

The neighbor did not say Kelsey's car and truck were in their usual parking spots by 12:30. She said she saw all three vehicles (his truck parked sideways) sometime between 12:30 and 1:00. It is a five-minute drive (1.4 miles) from Safeway to KB's home, so there was plenty of time for her to arrive home before 1:00 and for him to park behind her. Google Maps

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
JUST IN: One of Kelsey Berreth’s neighbors tells me she saw Patrick Frazee arrive at Berreth’s townhome on Thanksgiving Day between 12:30 and 1 p.m. She says she recognized the red truck, having saw him drive through multiple times to pick up their daughter. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth

MOO

Exactly. Neighbor left her own home sometime during that time frame, and as she did so, at whatever time that happened to be, she saw both red trucks (apparently all three vehicles) on site. That doesn't mean they were for sure there at 12:30 precisely.

Also, if PF were innocent or covering for himself properly, he should eventually have reported her missing. Not that day, if her text said she'd be gone a week, but at the end of that week. Perhaps he would have, but CB beat him to it. I'm not sure his lack of reporting means anything about his guilt one way or the other.

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

The neighbor did not say Kelsey's car and truck were in their usual parking spots by 12:30.
MOO

snipped for space
True - thanks for the catch. OP deleted!

 

[yawningreyhound]

Good thinking. I was simply thinking that it blocked her cars in so that if they had a fight and she had any desire to try to leave the house she could not do so in her vehicles. Unless there was not room for three cares to be parked the same direction that way of parking his truck seems either very temporary (like if you were only planning to be there for a few minutes) or very inconsiderate of the other person. JMO.

the neighbor said the cars were parked like that (KBs facing in, PFs across the back of them) routinely.......

 

[Esma]

I think if they were to have Thanksgiving at one of his relatives houses, plenty of people in the family were aware if it and LE has questioned them all. PF would have had to tell them why they weren’t coming, or either he went with the baby and told them why she didn’t come. It sounds like he has plenty of family in the area, it only makes sense to me they were planning on getting together and KB was planning a dish to bring. The odds that a ‘breakup’ with your fiancé and an abduction by a stranger occurring on the same day are astronomical. Which leaves 2 scenarios- either he killed her, or she left on her own accord- without her baby, car, clothes, makeup etc. and not seen or spotted anywhere. Not buying scenario 2.

 

[K9Enzo]

I have watched the dog videos and see absolutely nothing wrong there. That is how cattle dogs behave and are trained. Nothing out of the ordinary there. There is no cowering by the dogs. I still believe PF is mostly likely guilty here, but there is nothing in those videos that concerns me.

(thank you to UltraViolet4545 for pointing me in the right direction of the dog videos)

PrairieWind, I agree.

The videos are really brief. I'm not impressed but didn't see any red flags. Granted my experience is with German Shepherds.

However, years ago I had the pleasure of working with the outstanding Ulf Kintzel on his beautiful sheep farm with my GSD.

The dogs in the video did not exude the confidence I like to see, but it appears they were also pups. It appears he was featuring the pups from certain breedings and talking about them.

As far as him calling the females *advertiser censored*. Eh, I'm not at all put off by that. I was in a meeting recently where a very well respected breeder was talking about a SAR prospect. Calling the breeding female a is not all meant to degrade the dog.

As far as whether or not he's using a e-collar. I know better to argue with folks on the internet about training tools. lol I have seen abuse from e-collars AND good ol' fashion flat collars.

Now there was a mention of him being very heavy handed with his horses, if this is true, then I would think it would transmit to other animals as well.

 

[Ccging]

Ok, two questions....I’m curious when LE went to do the welfare check was her door locked?? One of the articles mentions her keys were gone. So if the door was locked she took the time to lock it or the perp did. I’d say it may be telling if it was unlocked possibly???

I’m not sure if my next question can be discussed so forgive me if it’s off limits, but do we know anything about PF’s father??? Just curious why no mention of him whatsoever.

 

[PommyMommy]

Good thinking. I was simply thinking that it blocked her cars in so that if they had a fight and she had any desire to try to leave the house she could not do so in her vehicles. Unless there was not room for three cares to be parked the same direction that way of parking his truck seems either very temporary (like if you were only planning to be there for a few minutes) or very inconsiderate of the other person. JMO.

Zooming in, I noticed there is a tree at the end of her driveway. Although it looks like there is enough room to park his truck behind another vehicle (depending on the size of her vehicle and how close she was parked to the home) it now makes more sense to me that he would park sideways with that tree there, especially if he came in from the east. Google Maps

 

[SuzDuJour]

I can’t help but wonder how she might’ve felt after leaving her job, family, friends and life in general to pick up and move hundreds of miles to be closer to the man she fell in love with, and he didn’t do anything to be closer to her. She got a job, a house, a baby...and he didn’t move in with her. If he stayed with his mom to take care of her, how much of an invalid could she be if a baby growing into a toddler was left in her care? I watched my grand daughter from four months old to three years old and it was exhausting and I was in good health. I wonder how much Kelsey was growing to resent his apparent lack of interest in being with her and the baby...and if it started an argument.

 

[Gardener1850]

KB's residence did not include a garage, and most likely only included 2 parking spaces. Since KB also owned 2 vehicles, her visitor stall was in constant use requiring PF to park behind her parked vehicles as not to impede the driveway or illegally park in space owned by other. I also believe this was normal for PF when stopping by, and not to hide the door entrances. MOO

I'm not sure she only had two parking spaces. Satellite images make it look like she could fit 4 cars there. She had more parking space than her neighbor she shared a wall with anyway:

Google Maps

 

[Irmese]

CB wouldn't have known that Doss Aviation had gotten a text from KB's phone. I wonder if she called Doss or any of KB's coworkers at some point after talking to PF. I don't think she would have known any of KB's coworkers, but just thinking about who I would call in the same situation. I would probably check their SM pages for friends and work from there but I would definitely call their employer, especially if her SO said she had broken up with him then disappeared.

 

[Noharg]

We all know LE completed their search. Was the truck that was towed off returned?
Also, Moderator, if I understand WS rules, I cannot quote PF’s family members directly from a SM post (in regards to him), correct?

 

[BRRI]

Zooming in, I noticed there is a tree at the end of her driveway. Although it looks like there is enough room to park his truck behind another vehicle (depending on the size of her vehicle and how close she was parked to the home) it now makes more sense to me that he would park sideways with that tree there, especially if he came in from the east. Google Maps

Here is street view https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

Back of house: 269 E Lake Ave, Woodland Park, CO - 1 bed/1 bath

 

[1wonderleads2another]

If your coparent left you with your cochild and you didn't hear from him again, would you then report him or say his life is none of your business?
Edited for proper determiner usage.

We don’t know what 11/25 text to PF said.

If my coparent texted me on 11/25 ‘I have decided to go out of town to visit my elderly grandma and will contact you when I’m back in town ’
Then no I would not report him missing
He’s an adult. In his text , he would have told me he’d contact me when he returned. I would take him at his word. Heck I’d even text him back ‘’ glad you are getting to see your Grandma, I’m happy to keep(our child). Have a good trip’

( For all we know in PF text she said she’d be back on 12/5, we don’t know)

 

[PommyMommy]

the neighbor said the cars were parked like that (KBs facing in, PFs across the back of them) routinely.......

Where did you hear that? To be clear, it wouldn't surprise me, but I've listened to her interview and read the article and I'm not seeing/hearing that. ?
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Here is street view https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/269-E-Lake-Ave-Woodland-Park-CO-80863/62719652_zpid/

Thank you. I've seen that, but unfortunately it doesn't give a clear picture of the entire driveway. When you look at it in Google Maps, you can the entire length of the driveway and a tree at the base of the west side.
MOO

 

[Esma]

Waiting to hear he was having an affair. That seems to be the overwhelming pattern with these men that kill their spouses. Maybe she confronted him with suspicion of this.

 

[Charlot123]

I suspect that someone else at the ranch (pretending to be Patrick) texted Kelsey's mom back on Nov 25th using Patrick's phone.

I hoped it was not the case. But I do have a feeling that in this case, someone else might be involved. It turns the situation into something much worse, and much more scary.

 

[Hatfield]

Where did you hear that? To be clear, it wouldn't surprise me, but I've listened to her interview and read the article and I'm not seeing/hearing that. ?
MOO

Thats what I would like to know the most. Is if that was routine or not to park that way. I have not seen her quoted as saying that in the articles I have seen.

I saw one spot that said the neighbor said he came over there on occasion but I cannot find a confirmation if he always parked that way or not.

 

[LittleDoe]

I have been reading the posts somewhat over the last few days and I have 2 questions that one of you could help me get the answer to.

1: The last date that CB talked to PF was 11/25 and then she waited until 12/02 to call police to say her daughter is missing. Do you know why she waited so long?
2: When PF told CB that KB went to visit her grandma, Do you know if CB started to dial her relatives to find out if any of them had seen or talked with CB, during those 7 days?

TYIA

 

[kath4557]

I not only don't understand PF not being at press conferences, I also don't understand PF's brother (cop) not showing up.