GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[Gardener1850]

Where does one find the documents that I see referenced in this case (Discovery) and is there a link to these NK interviews?

Here are two NK interviews (each over 2 hours long, so block off a day to listen):

I think there are some other phone interviews out too but these are the long ones.

 

[riolove77]

Question: Can “lifers” get married in prison and have conjugal visits?

He has a constitutional right to get married, but not to conjugal visits.

 

[molly1255]

My thoughts exactly. She met him, googled them, chased him down and wanted to to steal him away from his wife and family. She did not help him with the murders, he would have done a better job if he had help. I do think she pushed and pushed him to leave her and he created the way to actually leave.

I think she was upset on their last Sat night date that he wasn't enthusiastic about an apartment. She tried to downplay how much work she put into looking for an apartment for him, and how invested she was in getting him out of the marital home, but she said she found one that was perfect. She put a lot of effort into this, and she tried to figure out his logistics as well.

I don't think he was being straight with NK about his true financial picture. He didn't have any options for getting out of the marital home and getting an apartment. His credit was ruined, his debt to income ratio with his name on the mortgage was off the charts, and all of this would have been ferreted out by a landlord and he would have been rejected. His only option was probably a flop house where he paid by the day or week.

I think he knew that NK would have discovered his true financial situation if he had gone along on that apartment search the following week. She was pushing on the apartment and Shanann was pushing to fix their marriage. He was done with Shanann and the girls and he was addicted to NK. JMO.

Also hanging over his head is he would have needed money to pay an attorney, support for the children, other expenses and he would have landed in family court where his nice guy image would have been destroyed and he would have been outed as a man who cheated on his pregnant wife and then left her and his two toddler daughters for an AP of six to eight weeks.

If it is true and there were three months behind on their mortgage payments at the time of the murders, magnify the financial issues. They would have already received notification from their mortgage lender and the only real option for selling the house might have been a short sale, with the bank in charge. IDK, but he wasn't in charge of anything. I believe Shanann would have also had to agree with selling it, as her name was on the deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if NK told him on Saturday night that they WERE looking for an apartment for him next week, and he needed to decide on one next week and sign a lease, and he needed to move out of the marital home by x date.

He came up with a solution that he thought would serve him best.

All JMO.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I wonder why he refuses to communicate with his mother - maybe he blames her in some way.

She's pushy. So insistent he take this to trial, and stick to the He killed Shannan, because Shannan Killed the girls BS.
She doesn't care how much pain this causes others, or Hello. If he sticks with that tall tale, he will most likely have to take the stand. Leaving him wide open to a worse outcome for him.
She is so blinded by her hate for Shannan, that she will sacrifice her own son to smear her.
It's about time he man up, and do what's right.

 

[WildWest]

Hi there, Welcome Hopefullyhelpful

Here’s the discovery link (don’t worry, it’s only 1960 pages and only took me a month to get through):

18CR2003-Discovery-REDACTED-FINAL.pdf

As for the interviews, you can just google NK interviews on YouTube.

All this will be in the media thread as well, found in the opening post of every thread:

MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

Hey, I've seen discovery, I've heard a "3rd document dump" mentioned here, can you tell me where to find that? And I guess that means there was a 2nd document dump too?

 

[human]

He has a constitutional right to get married, but not to conjugal visits.

How did Ted Bundy manage to get a child?

 

[human]

I think she was upset on their last Sat night date that he wasn't enthusiastic about an apartment. She tried to downplay how much work she put into looking for an apartment for him, and how invested she was in getting him out of the marital home, but she said she found one that was perfect. She put a lot of effort into this, and she tried to figure out his logistics as well.

I don't think he was being straight with NK about his true financial picture. He didn't have any options for getting out of the marital home and getting an apartment. His credit was ruined, his debt to income ratio with his name on the mortgage was off the charts, and all of this would have been ferreted out by a landlord and he would have been rejected. His only option was probably a flop house where he paid by the day or week.

I think he knew that NK would have discovered his true financial situation if he had gone along on that apartment search the following week. She was pushing on the apartment and Shanann was pushing to fix their marriage. He was done with Shanann and the girls and he was addicted to NK. JMO.

Also hanging over his head is he would have needed money to pay an attorney, support for the children, other expenses and he would have landed in family court where his nice guy image would have been destroyed and he would have been outed as a man who cheated on his pregnant wife and then left her and his two toddler daughters for an AP of six to eight weeks.

If it is true and there were three months behind on their mortgage payments at the time of the murders, magnify the financial issues. They would have already received notification from their mortgage lender and the only real option for selling the house might have been a short sale, with the bank in charge. IDK, but he wasn't in charge of anything. I believe Shanann would have also had to agree with selling it, as her name was on the deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if NK told him on Saturday night that they WERE looking for an apartment for him next week, and he needed to decide on one next week and sign a lease, and he needed to move out of the marital home by x date.

He came up with a solution that he thought would serve him best.

All JMO.

NK had an income. All he had to do was say that SW had led them to financial ruin and he had no money for an apt until things got sorted out.

I imagine NK would have offered her place.

But, he did not want the hassle of having kids and demands from SW. He wanted to be free to have his fun life with NK

 

[Tippy Lynn]

NK is not the first woman to be involved with a married man that killed his wife and kids. I don’t recall any previous mistresses needing a new identity. Anyone?
Amber F had worldwide recognition but went on to live her life successfully.

Monica Lewinsky didn't get WP either and she was involved with the POTUS. NK being in WP is far fetched, overstated and/or exaggerated IMO.

 

[human]

I think she was upset on their last Sat night date that he wasn't enthusiastic about an apartment. She tried to downplay how much work she put into looking for an apartment for him, and how invested she was in getting him out of the marital home, but she said she found one that was perfect. She put a lot of effort into this, and she tried to figure out his logistics as well.

I don't think he was being straight with NK about his true financial picture. He didn't have any options for getting out of the marital home and getting an apartment. His credit was ruined, his debt to income ratio with his name on the mortgage was off the charts, and all of this would have been ferreted out by a landlord and he would have been rejected. His only option was probably a flop house where he paid by the day or week.

I think he knew that NK would have discovered his true financial situation if he had gone along on that apartment search the following week. She was pushing on the apartment and Shanann was pushing to fix their marriage. He was done with Shanann and the girls and he was addicted to NK. JMO.

Also hanging over his head is he would have needed money to pay an attorney, support for the children, other expenses and he would have landed in family court where his nice guy image would have been destroyed and he would have been outed as a man who cheated on his pregnant wife and then left her and his two toddler daughters for an AP of six to eight weeks.

If it is true and there were three months behind on their mortgage payments at the time of the murders, magnify the financial issues. They would have already received notification from their mortgage lender and the only real option for selling the house might have been a short sale, with the bank in charge. IDK, but he wasn't in charge of anything. I believe Shanann would have also had to agree with selling it, as her name was on the deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if NK told him on Saturday night that they WERE looking for an apartment for him next week, and he needed to decide on one next week and sign a lease, and he needed to move out of the marital home by x date.

He came up with a solution that he thought would serve him best.

All JMO.

NK had an income. All he had to do was say that SW had led them to financial ruin and he had no money for an apt until things got sorted out.

I imagine NK would have offered her place.

But, he did not want the hassle of having kids and demands from SW. He wanted to be free to have his fun life with NK

 

[molly1255]

NK had an income. All he had to do was say that SW had led them to financial ruin and he had no money for an apt until things got sorted out.

I imagine NK would have offered her place.

But, he did not want the hassle of having kids and demands from SW. He wanted to be free to have his fun life with NK

But apparently she didn't offer him her place and she also let him do most of the paying on their dates, too.

 

[riolove77]

How did Ted Bundy manage to get a child?

Illegally. No one knows. He wasn’t entitled to conjugal visits on death row.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think she was upset on their last Sat night date that he wasn't enthusiastic about an apartment. She tried to downplay how much work she put into looking for an apartment for him, and how invested she was in getting him out of the marital home, but she said she found one that was perfect. She put a lot of effort into this, and she tried to figure out his logistics as well.

I don't think he was being straight with NK about his true financial picture. He didn't have any options for getting out of the marital home and getting an apartment. His credit was ruined, his debt to income ratio with his name on the mortgage was off the charts, and all of this would have been ferreted out by a landlord and he would have been rejected. His only option was probably a flop house where he paid by the day or week.

I think he knew that NK would have discovered his true financial situation if he had gone along on that apartment search the following week. She was pushing on the apartment and Shanann was pushing to fix their marriage. He was done with Shanann and the girls and he was addicted to NK. JMO.

Also hanging over his head is he would have needed money to pay an attorney, support for the children, other expenses and he would have landed in family court where his nice guy image would have been destroyed and he would have been outed as a man who cheated on his pregnant wife and then left her and his two toddler daughters for an AP of six to eight weeks.

If it is true and there were three months behind on their mortgage payments at the time of the murders, magnify the financial issues. They would have already received notification from their mortgage lender and the only real option for selling the house might have been a short sale, with the bank in charge. IDK, but he wasn't in charge of anything. I believe Shanann would have also had to agree with selling it, as her name was on the deed.

I wouldn't be surprised if NK told him on Saturday night that they WERE looking for an apartment for him next week, and he needed to decide on one next week and sign a lease, and he needed to move out of the marital home by x date.

He came up with a solution that he thought would serve him best.

All JMO.

I agree with a lot of what you say Molly. However, I don't think the Saturday night date put that much pressure on him. There is evidence he had already premeditated the murders prior to Saturday night IMO. We discussed previously, so I don't want to go into in detail again but see Pommy's list here of everything that happened Thursday Aug 9: GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

My take on Saturday night is that he didn't want to discuss the apartment because he didn't need it anymore. Or at least would not need it until after the house sold. I think he had already settled in his mind that SW and the girls were going to "leave him" and he and NK could just continue their relationship as if SW never existed. Maybe he hoped NK would let him move in with her now that he would no longer need that extra bedroom for Bella and CeCe. JMO.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Illegally. No one knows. He wasn’t entitled to conjugal visits on death row.

It's disturbing. A couple stories out there, either they went behind a soda machine while a guard turned a blind eye, or through smuggling a condom to him for his half of baby making stuff, to smuggle back to her, and viola.

 

[Trudie]

Monica Lewinsky didn't get WP either and she was involved with the POTUS. NK being in WP is far fetched, overstated and/or exaggerated IMO.

I agree. The list of women involved in an affair with married men that went on to kill their wife or children is lengthy. Some leaving behind a ghastly, grisly scene in the family home. Some cases didn’t have the media exposure so the public isn’t as aware of how horrific they were.
This is the first case I’ve heard where body disposal was in oil vats.

 

[ElleJaycee]

​

Amber Frey didn't have vocal fry, and disdain for Lacy, she didn't wipe her phone clean, or care only about herself either.

Amber also didn't have the benefit of Facebook and other social media. She also wasn't employed by the same company as SP. NK can pretend she didn't know about Shanann but we all know she googled her on multiple occasions (which doesn't indicate jealousy per se). I google several of my colleagues out of curiosity. It doesn't mean I'm stalking them or that I'm having an affair with them. But when you look at NK's other google searches along with her denials, it makes her look incredibly shady.

I'm curious as to whether or not CW remembered to keep his wedding ring off during the entire time Shanann was in NC visiting family? Did none of his Colorado friends or co-workers not notice?

 

[Trudie]

Really agree with all of your points and opinions here. You said perfectly what I've been thinking.

As for his commissary records Radar has gotten a hold of--is this public info or something they had to apply for? Anyone know how that info gets out?

Public. Remember Nancy Grace gave us a run down every night on Casey’s purchases.
“She bought a sports bra, tampons, coconut butter lotion & tampons”. Or.......

*not verbatim

 

[margarita25]

Question: Can “lifers” get married in prison and have conjugal visits?

(Funny you asked this because I’ve been thinking about Joran Van Der Sloot from day 1. Remember all the love letters he got in prison??

Joran van der Sloot 'to be a father after getting his girlfriend pregnant...while behind bars' | Daily Mail Online

PS—this always erked me to the core, that he’s allowed to be having rendezvous and sexual relations. Natalee and Stephanie are dead, meanwhile he’s getting laid.

ETA:

Wait a minute, check this out:

“It is believed that his girlfriend - who has not been identified - has been visiting the 23-year-old frequently for conjugal visits at the jail, going to his cell to do 'chores' and bringing him candy.

“According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, van der Sloot uses the candy to run a 'lucrative' snack bar from his cell.“

The above poster (sorry forgot who) may have been right on about the reason for CW ordering all that junk food, if true—for the other inmates to bribe (or sell to) so doesn’t get his arse kicked every day.

—-

ETA: CW had an “emotional conversation”, and Van Der Sloot:

“He has admitted to the murder but has pleaded 'violent emotion' - which is typically used in Peru for crimes of passion.“

—-

ETA:

Article from Psychology Today:
Who's writing love letters to Joran van der Sloot?
He says a stranger wants to have his baby

“I wrote an article about the curious attraction that confessed killers hold for many women -- strangers outside the prison walls, who of their own volition make contact with these men and initiate passionate relationships with them, even if only through letters and phone calls.

I pondered intriguing websites such as PrisonPenPals.com, WriteaPrisoner.com, ConvictMailbag.com, and Meet-an-Inmate.com, where prisoners - granted, not all are killers - post pictures and pleas for female pen pals.“

 

[Tippy Lynn]

(Funny you asked this because I’ve been thinking about Joran Van Der Sloot from day 1. Remember all the love letters he got in prison??

Joran van der Sloot 'to be a father after getting his girlfriend pregnant...while behind bars' | Daily Mail Online

PS—this always erked me to the core, that he’s allowed to be having rendezvous and sexual relations. Natalee and Stephanie are dead, meanwhile he’s getting laid.

ETA:

Wait a minute, check this out:

It is believed that his girlfriend - who has not been identified - has been visiting the 23-year-old frequently for conjugal visits at the jail, going to his cell to do 'chores' and bringing him candy.

“According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, van der Sloot uses the candy to run a 'lucrative' snack bar from his cell.“


The above poster (sorry forgot who) may have been right on about the reason for CW ordering all that junk food, if true—for the other inmates to bribe (or sell to) so doesn’t get his arse kicked every day.

—-

ETA: CW had an “emotional conversation”, and Van Der Sloot:

“He has admitted to the murder but has pleaded 'violent emotion' - which is typically used in Peru for crimes of passion.“ )

RBBM
I just have to tell you how much I enjoy your posts and your humor!!!! Thanks for all the laughs

 

[margarita25]

Seriously. I like bad boys. But not thaaaaat bad, some tats and a motorcycle, perfect. Violent criminal record, no thanks.

More from the Psychology Today article re: Van Der Sloot’s love letters:

“Part of this is about power. We're all attracted to those who excel. Being turned on by someone because he or she was a Fulbright scholar or won the rodeo is not so different from desiring someone who killed not a victim but fifteen, not accidentally but on purpose, not from far away with a too-easy shotgun but up close by beating, stabbing, strangulation: something that requires muscles, something buff. It's not really so different - if you have a bad-boy jones.

"Being associated with someone bad gives you a chance to consider yourself a rebel," recently retired Radford University forensic psychologist Michael Aamodt told me in an interview. Aamodt has researched this fetish. "You see it in junior high and high school," where thugs are chick magnets. "When you're talking about killers, that ups the bad-boy ante."“

Who's writing love letters to Joran van der Sloot?

 

[Gardener1850]

​

Amber also didn't have the benefit of Facebook and other social media. She also wasn't employed by the same company as SP. NK can pretend she didn't know about Shanann but we all know she googled her on multiple occasions (which doesn't indicate jealousy per se). I google several of my colleagues out of curiosity. It doesn't mean I'm stalking them or that I'm having an affair with them. But when you look at NK's other google searches along with her denials, it makes her look incredibly shady.

I'm curious as to whether or not CW remembered to keep his wedding ring off during the entire time Shanann was in NC visiting family? Did none of his Colorado friends or co-workers not notice?

I don't know if this is true, but someone posted here that CW would not have been allowed to wear rings for his job anyway. If that's the case he would always leave the ring in his truck or his locker and none of his coworkers would think anything of him not wearing one. Since NK's job had something to do with health and safety I would think she would also know if this was the policy. It makes sense to me that someone who works with his hands doing mechanical work would not wear a ring due to the danger of it getting damaged or causing injury if his hand was caught in something. JMO.