CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #13 *ARREST*

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Not after the fact, before.

You can’t solicit murder after someone is already dead.

You’d have accessory after the fact, in what you are describing.

But, if it was not actually solicitation of murder, just solicitation, going by the definition provided by other posters, it could be solicitation of....disposing of a body, for instance....which I assume IS a felony.
 
Why didn't people speculate about PF's mental health instead of KB's? Why was it assumed KB was the one who had the problem?

Unfortunately, I have always believed KB's life ended on Thanksgiving Day. I also believed PF was involved with her death. I have seen this too much. LE knew it, too. There were never any organized search parties for KB. No missing-person fliers. LE was slowly and steadily building a case, but they needed concrete evidence.

As for baby K, as other posters have said, she was more of a possession to PF. He "owned" her, as he owns his abused horses and dogs. He can do anything he wants with them and to them. Perhaps, KB did not like the way PF disciplined K. Maybe she did not want K spanked or hit. It is conceivable KB had enough of PF's controlling ways, and she could excuse it when it came to herself, but she would not allow PF to treat baby K in that same manner.

There are many factors involved in this tragedy. KB may have tried to shield her family from the truth about PF, but it will now be exposed for the world to see.

Because her mental health issues would have been a better outcome than this, IMO.
 
Listen at around 16:14 of the presser:

A reporter asks if there could be additional arrests related to the solicitation charge.
The chief repeats the question and answers "that's an absolute possibility..."
When he repeats the question it sounds like he has a little slip of the tongue-- possible hint at who else could be involved?
I know we can't speculate on who else may be arrested but I hope it's ok to point this misspeak out. I found it very telling!
MOO.

Thanks! For me it was at about minute 12:18
 
Sam’s comments about the “Solicitation of Murder Charge” in his words, “Patrick had help.” And I took his descriptions to mean he had help with the actual crime (rather than the cover up of the crime). He didn’t say Patrick MAY have had help, he said HE HAD HELP. So, if his reporting and interpretation is accurate, it seems to dismiss that this charge was related to Patrick just attempting to hire someone to commit the crime. Did anyone else get this impression from the video? Of course, we will find out the facts in a more verifiable way, in the coming days/weeks.
It's more complicated than that re. conspiracy to commit murder or solicitation to commit murder. See quoted post below.

Soliciting a felony in Colorado
Under Section 18-2-301 of the Colorado Revised Statutes (C.R.S.) you commit criminal solicitation when:

  • You attempt to persuade another person to commit a felony, or
  • You offer your services or the services of a third party as either a principal or accomplice to commit a felony;
AND

  • You intend to promote or facilitate the commission of that crime, under circumstances strongly corroborative of that intent.
Solicitation penalties
Penalties for solicitation depend on the crime you solicited. In general, the punishment for solicitation is one class of felony less serious than the crime solicited.

Defenses to solicitation can be quite varied, but often involve showing that there is no evidence “strongly corroborative” of an intent to cause the commission of a crime.

Because solicitation defenses can be quite technical, it is imperative to retain an experienced Colorado solicitation lawyer as soon as possible after you have been charged.


To help you better understand Colorado's criminal solicitation law, our Denver Colorado criminal defense lawyers discuss the following, below:

Colorado class 1 felony is a class 2 felony, punishable by up to 24 years in prison.
If the felony solicited is not defined under the Colorado Criminal Code (Title 18 of the C.R.S.) and no penalty is specifically set forth in the statute, soliciting that felony is a class 6 felony.

Drug felonies are slightly different. Except as otherwise provided by law:

For a full list of the presumptive range of prison sentences for each class of felonies and drug felonies, as well as possible criminal fines, please see our article on Colorado Felony Sentencing.

Additionally, note that regardless of the class of felony committed, if Colorado law defines the crime as a crime of violence, you will face an increased sentence (up to twice as long) and prison time will be mandatory.

To learn more about penalties for Colorado crimes of violence, please see our article on Colorado Violent Crimes Sentencing (18-1.3-406 C.R.S.).

You changed your mind
It is an affirmative defense to solicitation charges that after soliciting another person to commit a felony, you persuaded that person not to do so or otherwise prevented the commission of the crime. The burden is on you, however, to show that you did so under circumstances manifesting a complete and voluntary renunciation of the crime.11

  • Example: After Ethan's girlfriend breaks up with him, Ethan hires someone to kidnap her minor child. However, after he cools down, he realizes it's a bad idea. He calls it off, but the kidnapper goes ahead with the crime anyway. Ethan is arrested and charged with solicitation of kidnapping. But after Ethan's Colorado solicitation attorney discovers text messages and emails showing that Ethan tried repeatedly to call off the crime, the prosecutor drops the charges.
Note that your renunciation and abandonment of the crime will not be considered voluntary and complete if it is motivated in whole or in part by:

  • A belief that a circumstance exists which increases the probability of detection or apprehension or which makes the consummation of the crime more difficult; or
  • A decision to postpone the crime until another time or to substitute another victim or another but similar objective.12
Illegal search and seizure
If the evidence against you was obtained as the result of an illegal Colorado search and seizure, your Denver criminal attorney can bring a motion to suppress that evidence.

This is a particularly effective defense in a solicitation case, where the prosecutor must establish your intent to facilitate a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. If any of the corroborating evidence is suppressed, it can be a crippling blow to the prosecutor's case. Your Colorado criminal defense attorney will often be able to use the suppression to negotiating an acceptable plea bargain. In some cases, it can even lead to the prosecution dropping the case against you entirely.

Colorado crime of conspiracy, 18-2-201 C.R.S. and the Colorado crime of attempt,18-2-101 C.R.S., As a result, the penalties for each of these crimes is identical.

A key difference between solicitation and conspiracy is that for the crime of conspiracy to take place, there must be an agreement between at least two people to commit a crime and an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. In the offense of criminal solicitation, on the other hand, the motive or intent of the person solicited is irrelevant to the question of whether the person soliciting the crime has violated the solicitation statute.

And to be guilty of criminal attempt, you must engage in conduct constituting a substantial step toward the commission of the offense. This differs from both solicitation and conspiracy, neither of which require anything more than statements (albeit ones made with intent to facilitate or engage in a crime).

The important thing to note is that each of these offenses requires the proof of at least one fact not required by the other. For instance, a conspiracy may be committed without the inducement required for the crime of solicitation. Solicitation, on the other hand, may be committed without the parties ever reaching an agreement or without any overt act in furtherance of the crime solicited.

This means that none of these crimes is a lesser-included offense of the other(s). Another way of saying this is that the crimes do not merge. This means that you can be convicted of both solicitation and conspiracy, or of both solicitation and attempt, or possibly even of all three.

  • Example: Jessica approaches her friend Mary about stealing some cocaine from the house of a drug dealer the two of them know. When Mary hesitates, Jessica sends her several text messages that establish that she is serious about doing it. At this point, Jessica is guilty of criminally solicitation. Later, Mary agrees and they work out a plan. Jessica and Mary are now guilty of criminal conspiracy. Still later, the women try to break into the drug dealer's house, but they are caught by a pair of police officers who have had the dealer under surveillance. Jessica is charged with solicitation, conspiracy AND attempt to commit burglary and theft of a controlled substance. Mary is charged with conspiracy and attempt.
Soliciting for child prostitution,18-7-402 C.R.S., is a different offense than criminal solicitation.

Criminal solicitation is what is known as an “inchoate” offense. An inchoate offense is one that exists only in relation to a separate crime that is defined elsewhere in the Colorado criminal code. Attempt consists of trying to commit a specific crime. Solicitation is an inducement to someone to commit a specific crime.

Punishment for these inchoate offenses depends on the penalty for the specific crime attempted or solicited. So, for instance, solicitation to commit Colorado first degree murder (18-3-102 C.R.S.), a class 1 felony, is a class 2 felony. Solicitation to commit Colorado robbery (18-4-301 C.R.S.), a class 4 felony, is a class 5 felony. And so on.

But soliciting for child prostitution is a crime in and of itself. It does not make reference to any other section of the criminal code. Nor is the punishment for soliciting child prostitution dependent on any other crime. In fact, there is no such crime as child prostitution.

What makes this distinction important is that soliciting for child prostitution is not a specific intent crime. While abandonment and renunciation is an affirmative defense to solicitation, it is not a defense to soliciting for child prostitution.13


Colorado’s "Criminal Solicitation" Laws (18-2-301 C.R.S.)








 
You need a body for that though.
For life insurance, you need a death certificate. Don't have to have a body, it just helps. If there's evidence that shows an injury incompatible with life and a coroner will sign off on a DC, insurance will pay out.

Insurance is my field, but I'm not a verified person as I'm not sure how much one is ever needed.
 
But, if it was not actually solicitation of murder, just solicitation, going by the definition provided by other posters, it could be solicitation of....disposing of a body, for instance....which I assume IS a felony.
The listed charge is Solicitation to Commit Murder. Listed on the county website
Archonix XJail Public
 
Haaaaaa. I’ve been receiving quite a few complaints.

You would think he would be aware of it, but it’s possible that this happened relatively quickly.

Or it didn’t happen at all. It’s just my best guess to make sense of recent developments.

For sure makes sense. They did say there was only 1 arrest however. So I'm thinking whoever helped him spilled the beans and that's what blew things up but perhaps hasn't been charged yet. I'm sure there is a lot more we will learn in the coming days, weeks, months...
 
Fleeting thought. Why DID he have to solicit someone to kill her? Why not do it on his own! Why open a can of worms? He had the physical and apparently emotional strength to do it himself. This leads me to think the person he had solicited may have been someone who might also benefit from her death. In other words, maybe KB had knowledge about some illegal activity shared by PF and "The Solicited One". Drugs, dog fights,... I feel like I am onto something here.

Because he’s a coward who couldn’t do it himself. Has to keep his hands clean. Wanted the end result without having to do the work
 
I think a friend or family member who was in town for Thanksgiving weekend was asked to take her phone with when they returned home. They turned it on and hit send on the 2 text messages he had already typed out. Then they did who knows what to her phone. Possibly, this mystery person had know idea what happened. Maybe it was an over the road trucker who wasn’t up to date on the news for the last month.
I think that person finally came forward. JMO
 
100% agree and I think that child was in serious danger the entire time , I think we are all very lucky we aren't mourning a 1 year old as well as Pretty Kelsey IMO

I know I'm going against the prevailing opinion here but I don't think the child was in any immediate danger. I think the baby was part of his motive. I think PF's mom may have loved baby K but didn't like KB. I also think it's possible KB may have had a high life insurance policy with baby K as the beneficiary. It's possible her policy said if KB dies and PF has custody of baby K he controls the money until K reaches a certain age. Some of those set ups have big loop holes where he could take out money to buy almost anything he wants so long as baby K benefits from the money spent. All he had to do was wait 5 years to have her declared deceased. Or come up with some way for her to be murdered, her body found and it not lead back to him-- which might have been part of his plan leading to the solicitation of murder charges. MOO.
 
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I’m wondering if the person that Cowboy Pat solicited to commit this crime, isn’t already in custody.

And talking.

That’s the best explanation I can come up with for how fast things have moved in the past 24 hours.
Yep, at the beginning of the press conference, the police chief said they now had enough information from "interviews" to be able to make this charge and have a judge sign off. Which leads me to believe someone started talking.
 
Patrick Nelson on Twitter
On my way to the Teller Co. Court for Frazee's court appearance. Sounds like it'll be via teleconference from the jail. I spoke with a legal expert he says these murder charges aren't filed without serious evidence. He says the solicitation charge means someone else knows a lot.

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.
Did I see correctly that LE was doing another search of her residence yesterday evening? We are thinking that was for a luminal test? Right after that, the arrest warrant was sought, correct? Thanks
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KB's townhome last night from reporter Dougherty's twitter feed. There are more photos. These two above show right-to-left the porch light, front door, and a window (kitchen?).
 
Sam’s comments about the “Solicitation of Murder Charge” in his words, “Patrick had help.” And I took his descriptions to mean he had help with the actual crime (rather than the cover up of the crime). He didn’t say Patrick MAY have had help, he said HE HAD HELP. So, if his reporting and interpretation is accurate, it seems to dismiss that this charge was related to Patrick just attempting to hire someone to commit the crime. Did anyone else get this impression from the video? Of course, we will find out the facts in a more verifiable way, in the coming days/weeks.
That was Sam’s interpretation of what the solicitation charge meant. But I think it’s telling that the DA stressed that the solicitation doesn’t have to involve final completion of the act. Just firm steps toward it. So it very well could be someone started helping him in the planning stages but then backed out, leaving PF to do the job on his own.
 
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