CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

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Really, I wonder if PF’s mom is emotionally stable enough to care for the child. Her head must be spinning after P’s arrest. I think she’ll be very busy with his case for the next few months, having no time or energy for a small child.

Becky ( iirc) mentioned a few posts back something about whether K’s mom has had legal advice in preparation for today’s event. I would think so. Had he not been arrested, I doubt K’s mom was going to accept no visitation.
Caring for the baby will be a healing. Remember the movie Steel Magnolias....
 
We don't know if he decided to kill her because she broke up with him or even if she actually did break up with him. However, the verified family member has said she did break it off, but we are not sure how she got that information.
We don't know if he solicited someone or not, to my knowledge that has not yet been verified. LE has stated more arrests are possible. Not sure of motive, either. So far it is speculation based on the information we have so far.
Booked on charges for first degree murder AND solicitation of first degree murder. These are the charges filed against him, so sounds like he did try to hire or bribe (or whatever it takes) someone or more than one someone to kill her or to help him kill her.

Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN
 
How does that work? Interesting. So one parent can limit access to another parent after incapacitation or death? Hmmm
Where I live you may include in your will who you would like to have custody of your child IF you are the custodial parent and even then it is up to the court. There has to be good reason. They try to place the child with the biological parent first, ( if appropriate) and if that is not an option they consider things like how well the child knows the person (you requested) , whether or not they have kids themselves, their age, health, and many other things. It also depends on the child's age.
Of course we don't know how capable PF's mom is of caring for a child for the next 17 years or so. We don't know her age, how her health is, or if she was implicated in any way in this crime. We don't know about Kelseys mom either (about age, etc) but she looked a lot healthier and younger to me. She also has the same religious background as her daughter so that may play a role. Jmo
 
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@gitana1 mentioned Mark Hacking's family earlier. His brothers persuaded him to confess and tell the truth. He did a despicable thing, but his family expressed remorse and sorrow to Lori's family and said there was never any doubt that Mark would plead guilty. It was the best possible way for a family to handle a terrible crime. It's mind-boggling to me, in any case, when family members go on a social media crusade, defending a loved one by victim bashing. No filter, no sense of what's appropriate, no impulse control. I would be absolutely mortified.

Maybe I am just completely out of touch. I have a facebook and scroll but don't post. My significant other calls it "Trackbook" and refuses to have an account. About once a year I'm allowed to report to him any facebook gossip. My brother is LE and doesn't have an account. My father still answers landlines and hears a beep for call waiting and each and every time says, "What do I hit, flash??" He has zero social media presence and never will. And my mother only posts on crockpot and air fryer recipe groups. I just can't even imagine any of them engaging or being aggressive with strangers or infiltrating group pages in an underhanded way.

I do feel for his family if they had nothing to with this, but if it were my child who was murdered, I wouldn't want any of his family near my granddaughter, innocent or not. That might not be fair, but that would likely be my personal feeling. imo.
I was so hoping that, with a brother in LE, the family would encourage PF to turn himself in, as Mark Hacking's family did. Sadly, this was not the case.
 
Regarding the solicitation to murder charge...

The most plausible meaning for this, to me, is that PF attempted to get someone else to kill KB. When that plan fell through, he then just killed her himself.

But is it possible that PF felt the noose closing in quickly and might’ve given false info about another person(s) as a last ditch effort to save himself? Like maybe telling LE that a co-conspirator actually was the one to kill KB and he hadn’t gone along with it in the end?

Probably not, since he reportedly wasn’t cooperating. Just something that popped into my head earlier today.
 
I’m sure she received advice and I’m very happy it worked out this way. Things could change at the hearing and if PF’s mom wants to challenge this, she has a good argument if she’s been a daily caregiver.

I’m not an expert and it’s all my opinion. I just find it very interesting and not normal that KB’s out of state family has been given custody vs all of the local family members
In my state CPS works hand in hand with LE I speculate the same in CO and that is why the baby was rightly given to CB IMO
 
Agreed.
WS exists for theories and speculation.....and also sleuthing those arrested and/or detained by the authorities.

The fact that LE temporarily detained PF's mother speaks volumes.
LE also felt it prudent to place the baby with CPS and not with her paternal grandma.
Those are facts, and in light of LE's statement there may be more arrests is huge.
We're waiting for more information and this has to be so difficult for Kelsey's family. :(

Volumes
 
Booked on charges for first degree murder AND solicitation of first degree murder. These are the charges filed against him, so sounds like he did try to hire or bribe (or whatever it takes) someone or more than one someone to kill her or to help him kill her.

Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN
Thank you! I thought it was only a possibility at this point. So that much we do know. I wonder who it turns out to be that he solicited.
 
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I
Caring for the baby will be a healing. Remember the movie Steel Magnolias....
I think so & posted so earlier. But for K’s mom. Idk if PF’s mom has the wherewithal at this time to take on such responsibilities. But, I’ve never had an adult (or any) child charged with murdering his child’s mom. Me? I could not function. I would be an absolute wreck. Not to mention angry, embarrassed & ashamed.
 
Hi everyone, I’ve been lurking for a while now. I’ve wanted to contribute but I’m usually playing catch up and every time I had a question or was confused about something, I’d read a few more posts and my question would be answered by @PommyMommy or @scdiv (and a number of others.) Then I’d have an opinion or thought that was soon perfectly articulated by @gitana1 or @Gardener1850 or @MassGuy or @Kapua (and a number of others!)


Anyways, I’ve been reading and getting to “know” some of you and I just felt like a creeper for not introducing myself. I’m KBB, and I’m so glad that a community like this one exists. This is such a great group of incredibly intelligent and perceptive people. I don’t have any friends or family that take interest in these true crime cases like I do, so it’s nice to have a place like this where I can keep up with the cases and read the thoughts and theories of likeminded people.
 
I was so hoping that, with a brother in LE, the family would encourage PF to turn himself in, as Mark Hacking's family did. Sadly, this was not the case.

Wow, now that’s a name we don’t hear much. MH. I guess he’s out or nearly out of prison?

Which dept. does P’s bro work for?

Hello KBB
 
We don't know if he decided to kill her because she broke up with him or even if she actually did break up with him. However, the verified family member has said she did break it off, but we are not sure how she got that information. Not sure of motive, either. So far it is speculation based on the information we have so far.

Huh? He’s been charged with 1st degree murder and solicitation for murder.
 
How does that work? Interesting. So one parent can limit access to another parent after incapacitation or death? Hmmm
Yes and the courts recognize it - it’s more difficult for married couples but we have done them with different guardians depending on who survives if they both agree - sometimes people recognize their child may be better off without the surviving parent - it’s a young law so we will see how it is handled on appeal but for singles, divorced custodial parents it’s an option. At the very least it gives a Judge pause should there be a fight about why a parent wants someone other than the bio parent to be a guardian
 
Earlier someone posted a screenshot that showed charges of 1st degree murder and also solicitation for murder. It was on the previous thread earlier today.
Yes, thank you, I edited my post. I had just returned home and was reading quickly through that part and thought people were just discussing the possibility.
 
Wow, now that’s a name we don’t hear much. MH. I guess he’s out or nearly out of prison?

Which dept. does P’s bro work for?

Hello KBB
<modsnipped request to sleuth family>

It would be nice if Kelsey's baby could have her last name changed to her mom's maiden name... then she wouldn't have to live life with a murderers' surname.

I recall the Mark Hacking case. Horrible. :(
Lori's name on her gravestone was changed back to her maiden name.
 
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