CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

[Irmese]

Not that I want to give PF the credit, but could the trip to the dump been another stall tactic to divert LE? Keep them sifting through garbage for awhile and not return to the townhouse?

Could be, but I don't think LE has wasted any opportunities to collect possible evidence. It would have seemed pretty careless to know he unloaded a trailer full of trash and not check it.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t know. I would think it may be some kind of LE protocol to alert local waste management to let them know if a certain (unofficial) POI drops off waste. But honestly, if LE wasn’t monitoring his moves no matter where he was going, I’d be disappointed to learn that. Especially since he had baby K in his care.

Yes. He was absolutely a person of interest at that point, if not the prime suspect.

I can’t imagine that he wasn’t being watched, or at a minimum, being tracked by a GPS device.

 

[1wonderleads2another]

Am baking cinnamon rolls now everyone here will always associate them with Kelsey now...

Please, for your own safety, finish those cinnamon rolls tonight! (Or at least put them in to a storage container )

 

[cody22]

The crime of murder is horrific, but if dismemberment occurred, I feel sick.
There would be so much hatred involved, to treat a human, someone you had a relationship with, the mother of your child, in such a way: even if an accomplice was solicited to carry out this task.

If this occurred, I would think the Death Penalty would be requested by the Prosecution.
MOO.

At this time there are only 3 people on Death Row in Colorado..... The death penalty is meaningless at this time there.

 

[Irmese]

Deleted.

 

[allboys]

Yes. He was absolutely a person of interest at that point, if not the prime suspect.

I can’t imagine that he wasn’t being watched, or at a minimum being tracked by a GPS device.

Exactly. Waste management may have called LE, but I should hope LE was already aware. MOO

p.s . That said, it’s still great that the folks at WM got praise for doing the right thing.

 

[Charlot123]

I do, if he did it in the bathtub, which is pretty standard practice as those things go.

I’m trying to make sense of the banging during the last search.

Drywall or flooring is the most likely, but if they were removing plumbing, that would be a telltale sign.

@MassGuy , if you think dismemberment is possible, do you think he got the idea from the Khasoggi's murder? It was on all channels, and recently. All he needs to do is to run across the story when the body is not found, and follow the script.

(In fact, CW's story should have served as a deterrent). But instead, some people would probably think, "how do I avoid CW's mistakes"?

One, he did avoid, or tried to. He bought time. Found the day when people are busy, or away, and wake up with headache the next day.

Next thing is how to hide the body.
He is a local. He might know the habits of the animals, or where not to hide. He probably has an idea where the police might look first. I bet he knows about cadaver dogs. He knows the terrain, he knows his farm. He doesn't understand the people that well.

Now he knows about Google searches. (After CW's case). He does not know that much about the computers and cellphones. He knows enough (maybe from unsolved/disappeared cases?) to lawyer up.

So to understand where he hid it, one should think like a local farmer. I have no clue. Have some ideas, but don't want to post them. They are probably wrong as I am not a farmer.

If dismemberment happened the plan was not to scatter parts around. The plan was to make it all disappear forever.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO
Kelsey was relatively new to the area and job so she probably didn't have a strong support system in CO besides CPat and his family. I don't know how good the relationship was at this point, perhaps things were headed to a breakup or did recently, but I do think the plan was for them to spend Thanksgiving together. IDK where, but together.

I believe PF tried to find someone to 'disappear' Kelsey at some point, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. CPat used this opportunity with a long holiday weekend, extra time before someone starts looking for Kelsey. He had a plan but something went wrong at Kelsey's place.... he made a mess he didn't count on.

He still needs an alibi (now more than ever) so he goes to Mommas with the baby and carries on as norm...….who knows what excuse he gave or even if he told his family they were going to be together. He went back to Kelsey's place the next day or so to clean up and dispose of the evidence, but needed more time so the texts came in on the 25th.

2 things that bother me with this, what did he do with Kelsey's remains and how did that phone get to Idaho and text on the 25th? He disposed of her relatively close by (I think he took her out of her home immediately, even if he had to move her again later) then had someone drive the phone and send the texts on the 25th and now that person is talking.

Just my speculation

 

[Irmese]

I have never known a farrier to sedate a horse ever. It is up to the owner, you either call a vet or you can do it yourself.
There were horses on his property and he certainly might have had some stocked in his barn.
Why do you think he tranqed her? What would the point be if as I said he/they were going to do away with her anyway.
I just do not get this horse tranq. thing.

I didn't state an opinion on whether he used a horse tranq or not, just that he could have had access to them.

ETA: It would make sense to use a horse tranq, wouldn't it? I never really considered it before, but that would be a way to control her and keep her quiet. Horrible thought, but very possible.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think media followed him to dump. we would have seen actual video of him at dump. we only saw LE at dump.

No there were photos posted of him sitting inside the light colored pick 'em up truck

 

[susiQ]

I don't believe he knew how much time he had. I think the clock in his head was running fast. If he didn't take the body immediately, I would think he went back that night.

The more a body decomposes, the more evidence there is as a result, and harder and more unpleasant the task of disposal becomes.

Was the phone in Idaho a few days later a preplanned task or a later addition to the coverup? The fact that he didn't take her belongings to create the appearance of her leaving suggests it was a later thought. Probably because he didn't want to be seen back at the condo once he thought of it.

Who know? But we will find out.

Agree. And, we don't know how many times CB tried to reach Kelsey in the days after TG. She may have tried on the 23rd and 24th and when she did not reach her on the 25th (phone instantly going to voicemail for three days) she finally called PF. Or, she tried PF before the 25th as well and he KNEW they wouldn't stop calling because they could not reach her. He would also know that they would want some answers so he gave them his pre-spun tale to throw them off for a few more days. It will be interesting to find out WHO took that phone to Idaho.

 

[GoJacks]

@MassGuy , if you think dismemberment is possible, do you think he got the idea from the Khasoggi's murder? It was on all channels, and recently. All he needs to do is to run across the story when the body is not found, and follow the script.

(In fact, CW's story should have served as a deterrent). But instead, some people would probably think, "how do I avoid CW's mistakes"?

One, he did avoid, or tried to. He bought time. Found the day when people are busy, or away, and wake up with headache the next day.

Next thing is how to hide the body.
He is a local. He might know the habits of the animals, or where not to hide. He probably has an idea where the police might look first. I bet he knows about cadaver dogs. He knows the terrain, he knows his farm. He doesn't understand the people that well.

Now he knows about Google searches. (After CW's case). He does not know that much about the computers and cellphones. He knows enough (maybe from unsolved/disappeared cases?) to lawyer up.

So to understand where he hid it, one should think like a local farmer. I have no clue. Have some ideas, but don't want to post them. They are probably wrong as I am not a farmer.

If dismemberment happened the plan was not to scatter parts around. The plan was to make it all disappear forever.

Also the Sydney Loofe case that was pretty headline news (i think?) involved dismemberment. perhaps he learned what not to do from that case.

aka take his cell phone with him to the dump spots.

no idea if dismemberment is even involved. really hope not. that's just another level of sick.

 

[susiQ]

Yes. He was absolutely a person of interest at that point, if not the prime suspect.

I can’t imagine that he wasn’t being watched, or at a minimum, being tracked by a GPS device.

Ah Ha! Maybe that's why he took someone else's white truck as he may have suspected that they had a tracking device on the blue/green truck?

 

[MassGuy]

@MassGuy , if you think dismemberment is possible, do you think he got the idea from the Khasoggi's murder? It was on all channels, and recently. All he needs to do is to run across the story when the body is not found, and follow the script.

(In fact, CW's story should have served as a deterrent). But instead, some people would probably think, "how do I avoid CW's mistakes"?

One, he did avoid, or tried to. He bought time. Found the day when people are busy, or away, and wake up with headache the next day.

Next thing is how to hide the body.
He is a local. He might know the habits of the animals, or where not to hide. He probably has an idea where the police might look first. I bet he knows about cadaver dogs. He knows the terrain, he knows his farm. He doesn't understand the people that well.

Now he knows about Google searches. (After CW's case). He does not know that much about the computers and cellphones. He knows enough (maybe from unsolved/disappeared cases?) to lawyer up.

So to understand where he hid it, one should think like a local farmer. I have no clue. Have some ideas, but don't want to post them. They are probably wrong as I am not a farmer.

If dismemberment happened the plan was not to scatter parts around. The plan was to make it all disappear forever.

Dismemberment is not the norm, but it does happen with some frequency.

I don’t think he was inspired by that Saudi plot, and it was merely a coincidence.

It would have been done out of practicality, as it would allow him to move the body easier.

I don’t think he scattered the parts, and I’m not positive (obviously) that this even occurred.

We don’t know for a fact that this happened, and it is merely a guess.

I think he disposed of the body at a place with which he was familiar, as most killers do.

Unfortunately, the terrain and his knowledge of it, is quite extensive.

They’ll need help to find her.

The cell phone ping does show some level of sophistication, but that is fairly common knowledge these days.

His lawyering up immediately, and never uttering a word about her disappearance, could be explained by his familiarity with law enforcement (family members).

He never even tried to act like an innocent person here, and that doesn’t just demonstrate confidence, it wreaks of arrogance.

He clearly thought he committed a perfect crime.

He didn’t though, not even close.

 

[Charlot123]

MOO
Kelsey was relatively new to the area and job so she probably didn't have a strong support system in CO besides CPat and his family. I don't know how good the relationship was at this point, perhaps things were headed to a breakup or did recently, but I do think the plan was for them to spend Thanksgiving together. IDK where, but together.

I believe PF tried to find someone to 'disappear' Kelsey at some point, but for whatever reason it didn't work out. CPat used this opportunity with a long holiday weekend, extra time before someone starts looking for Kelsey. He had a plan but something went wrong at Kelsey's place.... he made a mess he didn't count on.

He still needs an alibi (now more than ever) so he goes to Mommas with the baby and carries on as norm...….who knows what excuse he gave or even if he told his family they were going to be together. He went back to Kelsey's place the next day or so to clean up and dispose of the evidence, but needed more time so the texts came in on the 25th.

2 things that bother me with this, what did he do with Kelsey's remains and how did that phone get to Idaho and text on the 25th? He disposed of her relatively close by (I think he took her out of her home immediately, even if he had to move her again later) then had someone drive the phone and send the texts on the 25th and now that person is talking.

Just my speculation

If we are thinking, body, the question is where?

If we are thinking, dismemberment, the question is, "how to make parts disappear"?

MOO

 

[esayer]

Yes I agree. If she was dating someone else, good for her. I’m sure she was emotionally abused by PF, at the minimum, so good for her if she moved on. That would actually have been a healthy sign. I don’t see it as victim blaming at all, or a negative thing. If people believed that she moved on, that doesn’t mean that anyone is saying she’s responsible for her death. It’s not the same correlation that it would have been years ago.

Except people are basically saying he killed her because she was with someone else, which a) there's absolutely zero evidence that she was, and b) still isn't an excuse to kill someone, and c) is total victim blaming in the context of the posts.

 

[esayer]

He did not have access to anything like it, he was not a vet. I would say, whatever worked easiest and would not generate questions if he were stopped. If carrying a syringe with horse tranquilizer was normal for him, then, yes. I Googled that stun guns are more than legal, so if it was commonplace on his farm, then a stun gun.

Normal guns are more than legal as well. In the US we are practically issued them at birth!

 

[girlhasnoname]

If we are thinking, body, the question is where?

If we are thinking, dismemberment, the question is, "how to make parts disappear"?

MOO

I don't think he dismembered her JMO. Taking her remains within a 50 mile radius somewhat known to him but off the beaten path I predict. I think he would want it close enough that he could keep an eye on things. I believe he is a control freak.

 

[Charlot123]

Agree. And, we don't know how many times CB tried to reach Kelsey in the days after TG. She may have tried on the 23rd and 24th and when she did not reach her on the 25th (phone instantly going to voicemail for three days) she finally called PF. Or, she tried PF before the 25th as well and he KNEW they wouldn't stop calling because they could not reach her. He would also know that they would want some answers so he gave them his pre-spun tale to throw them off for a few more days. It will be interesting to find out WHO took that phone to Idaho.

Do you really need to take it? Or is it enough to FedEx? Some people keep the boxes from the phones (in fact this is what AT@T asks you to do). It might even look like a gift.

The only thing against FEDEX would be a long weekend.

 

[The Farm]

I didn't state an opinion on whether he used a horse tranq or not, just that he could have had access to them.

ETA: It would make sense to use a horse tranq, wouldn't it? I never really considered it before, but that would be a way to control her and keep her quiet. Horrible thought, but very possible.

Well not if your just going to strangle them or knock them out. I would think that would be faster than waiting for a tranq which could have killed her also if given enough.

She was small, one good bang on the head and she would be out cold. And then if she was strangled quick also if done by a very large man. Geeezzzz I hate even thinking of this never mind dismemberment, my head does not even want to go there.