CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

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This makes sense...the state is already on fire from Chris Watts. There would be the concern that people are emotionally vested and upset and can’t separate the two cases. Making sure it is clear this was a “crime of passion” due to his head injury vs premeditated. There is an angle in this I’m sure...
But where does the charge of solicitation come into this crime of passion?
 
My thought is that "lawyering up" is the most intelligent thing you can do today. A good lawyer will navigate you in unchartered waters that you know nothing about.

It does not prove guilt or innocence.

Every LE show you watch on TV you see it, every case we follow. It has become the norm, especially with the charge PF has.
He has relatives in LE, they know how it is done.
What I am trying to say as it does not tell me he is guilty or innocent because they all get a lawyer or public defender.


I agree! I would too, given the Chris Watts thing. People are angry and have lynch mob mentality. We have the right to counsel, and he doesn’t sound super sophisticated. It’s not a sign of guilt or innocence.
 
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Frazee is being denied a request to limit pretrial publicity. He claimed there was "massive pre-indictment and pretrial negative publicity" which would limit his ability to have a fair trial. The district attorney said there was not enough evidence to support this claim.

In a separate document filed by Frazee's public defender, Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.
 
Solicitation isn’t conspiracy because it lacks agreement (sorry if this plows old ground). Thus if he asked someone to commit murder, with or without PF’s direct participation, and that person declined, I have assumed that the person PF asked is a critical witness but not criminally culpable. A Colorado defense lawyer would know better though.
I'm not an attorney, but I think the solicitation to commit murder charge could involve an 'agreement' with someone to commit murder.

We know that he apparently killed her alone since 'conspiracy to murder' was not charged. Bet this mystery person was tracked down from cell records and has not yet been charged because he/she could be assisting to get a deal. ....Could have been the courier for her cell phone to Idaho? Sounds like the phone was located with assistance, based on the new search warrants from Idaho.
 

This makes sense...the state is already on fire from Chris Watts. There would be the concern that people are emotionally vested and upset and can’t separate the two cases. Making sure it is clear this was a “crime of passion” due to his head injury vs premeditated. There is an angle in this I’m sure...

What type of angle? I’m curious on your thoughts?
 
If he asked someone he knew to kill her, and they refused so he did it himself and told that friend exactly where he did it....if that person went to the police and LE discovered evidence of blood in that spot, is that in itself enough to get a judge to sign off on the charges?

IMO, PF solicited the help of an acquaintance, he declined, maybe thinking him crazy or just pissed off at KB. When/if the person declined, PF refrained from elaborating. After KB is discovered missing, the anon’ person contacted LE (afraid of being pulled into this) & advised them to PFs request. Theory only.
After the arrest, I suggested her body prob’ traveled in a horse trailer to some obscure location. I have horses, been all over trail riding, doing rodeos, etc., not once stopped by LE for traffic infractions while pulling a trailer. Not saying it doesn’t happen but think how often you see a vehicle pulling livestock stopped roadside? A lot of LE do not want to deal with verifying coggin tests, etc. unless an offense is aggregious, they look the other way. I’ve been coast to coast in caravans full of trucks pulling trailers. Just my experience.
 
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

Frazee is being denied a request to limit pretrial publicity. He claimed there was "massive pre-indictment and pretrial negative publicity" which would limit his ability to have a fair trial. The district attorney said there was not enough evidence to support this claim.

In a separate document filed by Frazee's public defender, Frazee also refuses medical/psychiatric care while in custody.

Ok probably gonna get some haters on this but he’s refusing psychiatric care because he knew full well what he was planning. I think this is good as he is not going to plead insanity. IMO cold and calculating!
 
My wording was bad! What kind of evidence do you think LE has to make the claim she is dead. Assuming he cleaned the scene where she died, it seems unlikely there'd be enough blood to make that call.

Lots of blood evidence. Perhaps a weapon with her DNA on it. It's impossible to completely clean the scene. Say he shot her with a gun with a silencer or stabbed her or slit her throat. There would be blood everywhere. She has hardwood floors. Wood is porous and every crevice would have her blood in it. The cleaned up blood would still show up with luminol. Then they would take the surfaces to test for her blood/her DNA. MOO.
 
As far as I know, Patrick had a traumatic brain injury at some point. He was kicked in the head by a horse. This could have resulted in frontotemporal brain damage. This area of the brain controls impulses and personality. Thoughts below in random order:

1. It is very possible he had some grandiosity due to this injury. It’s common to have an impaired sense of self with this type of injury. As they meet online and it was a whirl-wind relationship, the way he presented himself to her in terms of success, financial stability, and reliability could have very well have been different in real life. The facade and reality might have become evident to her as time progressed. It might have been a bit delayed as they got pregnant and had a baby.

2. Sometimes religiosity is heightened with this type of head injury. Meaning, the idea they should be married or have sinned can create strange thoughts. If she slowed down the marital process if she started having doubts, this can create cognitive dissonance in him. Head injuries can fixate on ideas, like his ailing business can boost from him being a family man in the eyes of his peers. Her wanting a break could make him start persecuting her in his mind. Not seeing he too had a child out of wedlock, not accepting she might want a break.

3. Most highly intelligent women/men who get duped or derailed by men/women tend to go through a period of denial, embarrassment, and a sheer inability to process the situation. They second guess themselves and have issues with self trust. How could I not see this? He most likely was not as he seemed initially. She most likely was struggling trying to figure out how to extricate herself, tell family, or even trust herself. She most likely was going through the motions trying to sort through this. It could be extra difficult if family questioned her or cautioned against the whirlwind relationship. It could be extra difficult if she had expectations of herself due to religion. Example: being a cattle rancher vs seasonally raising a few head of cattle. Presents as a rancher to her initially, but in reality is more like 4H.

4. His old school style of handling animals actually could have been part of his head injury. Impulsive, easily frustrated, and semi aggressive. This is not abnormal and could leak into everyday life if not kept in check. It’s possible he perceived her dissatisfaction or intellectual discussions as a threat or confusing. If he had issues processing certain information, she could have easily overwhelmed him if she voiced frustrations. That’s not her fault as she didn’t signup for his scenario. I think she wanted it to work and to be happy, but he might have been hard to work with. This would explain why what family knew could have been different.

5. Online dating makes it super easy to fill in the blanks about daily life when you don’t see someone day in day out. She most likely had higher expectations and could not see some red flags. It happens to a lot of people. And once the honey moon period wore off, she was pregnant. That was the priority.

6. I genuinely think she was trying to break things off. There could have been a discussion on her part that she wouldn’t go with him to Thanksgiving. To him, because the poor head injury boundaries and possible dulusional thoughts, he couldn’t process. Obviously, they should be together as they had the baby and were engaged. What would people think? This is manadatory to be together. She was shattering how he structured the relationship in his mind. And he unleashed.

7. We keep mentioning why he waited 3 days, we’ll that is simple. He had obligations he couldn’t just leave. If he had appointments and expectations, he could not deviate. A head injury doesn’t mean he’s stupid, just different. I, too, would show up to my obligations like nothing was wrong. Then head off to sell a few head of cattle somewhere. Maybe saying I am selling them in Arizona, then head to Idaho.

Just some thoughts...

As someone who suffered a head injury in a horse accident I respectfully disagree with your assertions. Third party report he was kicked by a horse, however, no documentation he suffered a traumatic brain injury. Countless people suffer brain injuries every year and they do not not become calculated, cold blooded killers. Conversely, PF’s scheming, solicitation, planning is indicative of someone who is not experiencing long term problems if he did, in fact, suffer a head injury.
 
IMO, PF solicited the help of an acquaintance, he declined, maybe thinking him crazy or just pissed off at KB. When/if the person declined, PF refrained from elaborating. After KB is discovered missing, the anon’ person contacted LE (afraid of being pulled into this) & advised them to PFs request. Theory only.
After the arrest, I suggested her body prob’ traveled in a horse trailer to some obscure location. I have horses, been all over trail riding, doing rodeos, etc., not once stopped by LE for traffic infractions while pulling a trailer. Not saying it doesn’t happen but think how often you see a vehicle pulling livestock stopped roadside? A lot of LE do not want to deal with verifying coggin tests, etc. unless an offense is aggregious, they look the other way. I’ve been coast to coast in caravans full of trucks pulling trailers. Just my experience.
Interesting points. But that in itself seems unlikely to warrant Murder in the 1st.... This is what I can not place my finger on. Seems they'd require a lot of blood, or a photo, or something more substantial. I can not believe he'd leave volumes of blood behind, and they have no body. I keep thinking he may have been foolish enough to have taken a photo and sent it to someone. Sent it from a throw-away phone--or what ever they're called these days. Any idea on what else might suffice as efficient evidence that she was dead?
 
As far as I know, Patrick had a traumatic brain injury at some point. He was kicked in the head by a horse. This could have resulted in frontotemporal brain damage. This area of the brain controls impulses and personality. Thoughts below in random order:

1. It is very possible he had some grandiosity due to this injury. It’s common to have an impaired sense of self with this type of injury. As they meet online and it was a whirl-wind relationship, the way he presented himself to her in terms of success, financial stability, and reliability could have very well have been different in real life. The facade and reality might have become evident to her as time progressed. It might have been a bit delayed as they got pregnant and had a baby.

2. Sometimes religiosity is heightened with this type of head injury. Meaning, the idea they should be married or have sinned can create strange thoughts. If she slowed down the marital process if she started having doubts, this can create cognitive dissonance in him. Head injuries can fixate on ideas, like his ailing business can boost from him being a family man in the eyes of his peers. Her wanting a break could make him start persecuting her in his mind. Not seeing he too had a child out of wedlock, not accepting she might want a break.

3. Most highly intelligent women/men who get duped or derailed by men/women tend to go through a period of denial, embarrassment, and a sheer inability to process the situation. They second guess themselves and have issues with self trust. How could I not see this? He most likely was not as he seemed initially. She most likely was struggling trying to figure out how to extricate herself, tell family, or even trust herself. She most likely was going through the motions trying to sort through this. It could be extra difficult if family questioned her or cautioned against the whirlwind relationship. It could be extra difficult if she had expectations of herself due to religion. Example: being a cattle rancher vs seasonally raising a few head of cattle. Presents as a rancher to her initially, but in reality is more like 4H.

4. His old school style of handling animals actually could have been part of his head injury. Impulsive, easily frustrated, and semi aggressive. This is not abnormal and could leak into everyday life if not kept in check. It’s possible he perceived her dissatisfaction or intellectual discussions as a threat or confusing. If he had issues processing certain information, she could have easily overwhelmed him if she voiced frustrations. That’s not her fault as she didn’t signup for his scenario. I think she wanted it to work and to be happy, but he might have been hard to work with. This would explain why what family knew could have been different.

5. Online dating makes it super easy to fill in the blanks about daily life when you don’t see someone day in day out. She most likely had higher expectations and could not see some red flags. It happens to a lot of people. And once the honey moon period wore off, she was pregnant. That was the priority.

6. I genuinely think she was trying to break things off. There could have been a discussion on her part that she wouldn’t go with him to Thanksgiving. To him, because the poor head injury boundaries and possible dulusional thoughts, he couldn’t process. Obviously, they should be together as they had the baby and were engaged. What would people think? This is manadatory to be toge

Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing!
 
Kelsey Berreth’s Fiancé Patrick Frazee Seeks To Limit Pre-Trial Publicity

This article reads “Berreth was last seen on Thanksgiving Day at Safeway when she handed over the toddler to Frazee..”. Does that imply the exchange of the child was at Safeway? I didn’t know that before.
IMO, they just mean that’s the last they can verify (on camera or with other witnesses). PF is the one who reported it happened later in the day, but they may not be able to confirm exact time and place yet.
 
Good catch! First time I’ve seen that too, always assumed handoff was somewhere else. Wonder if that’s part of why no release yet of video of her leaving Safeway???

It’s so confusing, I heard Safeway, that KB delivered the child to PF & that PF picked the child up. If the exchange did take place at the grocery store, why no video? You know, “this is the last known sighting, putting her child in the fathers truck”.
 
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