CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[Charlot123]

It bothers me as to the why KB Mom waited so long to report her missing , and I asked this question before was PF in contact with her during those day in between ? Do we know ? Was he appeasing her on the where abouts of Kelsey with excuses she was sick etc etc

I think, they were not scared because KB was not scared during her last conversation with mom.

Sad or good that people don't foresee the future? On that Safeway video, KB walks calmly, she looks busy and is aware of her child, but she has no foreboding of the horror to start in 30 minutes.

So she told mom, calmly, of her plans. A dinner, a X-mas tree. And who would have thought that her child's father had very different plans for the evening? I think she was calm, she had plans, and they included PF. This is why no one got scared.

 

[tictoc]

I was just reviewing the Laura Wallen/Tyler Tessier case. LE staged the press conference unbeknownst to Tyler who was suspected early on. But you see Laura's family consoling him, while they knew all along that it was a ruse. You would never know the family was acting during that press conference.
I'm wondering now if this is the case with CB, if LE told her the kinds of things to say, all a ruse to see PFs reaction.
I must say, looking at other cases, PF really shut us down fast by lawyering up so quickly, blocking our scrutiny of his language, sound of voice, demeanor, reactions, account of events, etc.

 

[jillianelaine]

I’m still not sure whether they had broken up, or had plans to spend the holidays together. Not sure we can make assumptions either way. Kelsey having spoken to her mother on the last day they spoke seems to indicate nothing was amiss. I doubt her mom completely invented the substance of their calls at that point...she had no reason to that we know of. Her aunt confuses the issue though. Wonder if could have spoken to Kelsey later that day? Although it hard to see when.

I think it is more likely that PF had decided some time prior to Thanksgiving that he wanted the baby, whether they had officially split or not. She may have been hinting that she missed her family, he may have taken that as a threat that she might move back to WA or to Idaho. Her buying her own own may have signaled to him that she was never moving to the house he lived in. Anyway...I am just rambling.

We don't know if they ever had a serious relationship. Who can know whether he pulled away shortly after she became pregnant and Kelsey staged a fake relationship to maintain a certain image in the eyes of her family. Or whether her mother knew the relationship was over, but never shared that knowledge with immediate family. A relative had said they recently broke up. Who can know what the source for that statement was. Maybe it was in the text that arrived from Kelsey's phone. Or maybe it was a family member who knew they were not romantically involved but did not enlighten other family members until the disappearance. What we do know is that none of their neighbors, local friends, local merchants, local church members, local anything, have come forward with any comments or any photos to support a recent romantic involvement.

 

[jillianelaine]

I was just reviewing the Laura Wallen/Tyler Tessier case. LE staged the press conference unbeknownst to Tyler who was suspected early on. But you see Laura's family consoling him, while they knew all along that it was a ruse. You would never know the family was acting during that press conference.
I'm wondering now if this is the case with CB, if LE told her the kinds of things to say, all a ruse to see PFs reaction.
I must say, looking at other cases, PF really shut us down fast by lawyering up so quickly, blocking our scrutiny of his language, sound of voice, demeanor, reactions, account of events, etc.

Good point! When her mother discussed their "very loving relationship" it struck a chord. Why didn't any of the neighbors come forward with evidence to support this? Where are the people who witnessed the two of them playing with the baby in the yard? Going for walks? Drinking coffee at Starbucks? In the 1980s I worked two full time jobs. We still went for walks, sat in the yard, went to restaurants.... LE may have encouraged her to say things to lull the suspect into believing he was not--for the integrity of the investigation, for the safety of the granddaughter.

 

[jillianelaine]

I can't believe Kelsey's death was related to custody issues. I don't think PF planned on having a child nor do I believe he wanted one. There was no shortage of women on dating sites who were logistically, more feasible. Might he have been initially drawn to someone who lived far away because it was less likely to evolve into a more permanent situation? Did he remain living at home for similar reasons? I don't believe PF was drawn to the responsibilities which accommodate being an adult.

 

[tmar]

I brought this forward from another case, as caught my eye:

This is worrying. I have only just the other day been discussing with others here the only case we can think of where a man charged with murder was released on bail and while out on bail he murdered his mother in law and committed suicide.

Policeman bailed for murder kills mother-in-law

Tortoise,

Will Frazee get bail?
Would CB require further protection?

 

[susiQ]

I agree.

She was clearly in shock.

I think that in time, we will learn that she suspected Cowboy Pat from the beginning.

For whatever reason, she decided to keep those suspicions to herself.

It may have been because she wanted to ensure the safety of her grandchild.

Exactly my thoughts. I saw the PC and the interview before coming here on WS. I just knew something terrible had happened. She appeared so cautious when there was anything regarding the relationship or something PF could perceive as pointing the finger at him. She chose her words well. She feared the worst, yet continued to hope despite that "gut" feeling. I know she feared for her grandchild as well. I too feared for the baby as I think many of you here did too. What would PF do if he felt he was being "corralled" by the police, media and her family? If he killed KB, he may have no qualms about killing K especially after the CW case. So sad our suspicions became reality, and so relieved they were able to arrest him quickly and protect baby K. As another poster said way back, baby K will give them comfort and provide the healing after this tragedy.
Edit spelling.

 

[MassGuy]

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Kelsey’s murder was committed for custody of their child.

Solicitation proves premeditation, which rules out a rage killing.

It doesn’t appear that <modsnipped>Pat would have profited from her death (so no direct financial motive).

Generally in “If I can’t have you, then no one will” killings, the perpetrator doesn’t solicit a murder, rather, he does it himself.

I do think he did end up doing it himself, but the solicitation negates this for me regardless.

With Kelsey out of the picture, no worries about shared custody or child support.

This is the only motive that makes sense to me, at this point.

 

[MassGuy]

I brought this forward from another case, as caught my eye:



Will Frazee get bail?
Would CB require further protection?

Not a chance in hell. He is spectacularly dangerous, and is looking at a life sentence.

Law enforcement doesn’t even have a body, yet they are convinced that Kelsey is dead, and Patrick is her killer.

I think the evidence against him must be incredibly compelling, and no judge is going to approve bail here.

The risk is too high.

 

[tictoc]

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Kelsey’s murder was committed for custody of their child.

Solicitation proves premeditation, which rules out a rage killing.

It doesn’t appear that Cowboy Pat would have profited from her death (so no direct financial motive).

Generally in “If I can’t have you, then no one will” killings, the perpetrator doesn’t solicit a murder, rather, he does it himself.

With Kelsey out of the picture, no worries about shared custody or child support.

This is the only motive that makes sense to me, at this point.

...Your 'Cowboy Pat' cracks me up every time...
ETA that is to say, nothing funny whatsoever about this

 

[tmar]

I was just reviewing the Laura Wallen/Tyler Tessier case. LE staged the press conference unbeknownst to Tyler who was suspected early on. But you see Laura's family consoling him, while they knew all along that it was a ruse. You would never know the family was acting during that press conference.
I'm wondering now if this is the case with CB, if LE told her the kinds of things to say, all a ruse to see PFs reaction.
I must say, looking at other cases, PF really shut us down fast by lawyering up so quickly, blocking our scrutiny of his language, sound of voice, demeanor, reactions, account of events, etc.

I followed that case.
Could LE have used similar tactics with CB?
PF may have made statements to CB, that are important in the case.
As you state tictoc, was the Berreth family acting, following LE's advice.
MOO.

 

[susiQ]

Because even small children cam be traumatized by what they see and hear.

I'm guessing baby K was either at his mother's OR having her afternoon nap. Our youngest granddaughter is just slightly younger than baby K and she naps in the afternoon. I could be wrong, but I think he was expected by KB to arrive to spend TG together. Maybe she was planning dinner. Cinnamon rolls already done before her quick trip to Safeway to pick up some supplies for dinner. Perhaps initially KB was thinking they "might" be going out for dinner but PF convinced her to have dinner at home with him and the baby as it would fit his intentions of doing the unspeakable that very day. It sure will be interesting to know how all of this played out but I imagine it will be some time before we have those queries answered.

 

[MassGuy]

I followed that case.
Could LE have used similar tactics with CB?
PF may have made statements to CB, that are important in the case.
As you state tictoc, was the Berreth family acting, following LE's advice.
MOO.

This just made me think of something.

I think it’s possible that during the early days of this investigation, law enforcement had CB call <modsnipped> Pat, in an effort to obtain statements that could help their case.

If he thinks she is on his side, he may be more inclined to talk.

And lie.

Recorded phone calls have helped to bring down plenty of killers.

 

[Charlot123]

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Kelsey’s murder was committed for custody of their child.

Solicitation proves premeditation, which rules out a rage killing.

It doesn’t appear that Cowboy Pat would have profited from her death (so no direct financial motive).

Generally in “If I can’t have you, then no one will” killings, the perpetrator doesn’t solicit a murder, rather, he does it himself.

I do think he did end up doing it himself, but the solicitation negates this for me regardless.

With Kelsey out of the picture, no worries about shared custody or child support.

This is the only motive that makes sense to me, at this point.

I think his mother got sincerely attached to the kid and expressed fear that the baby could be moved away.

 

[Elley Mae]

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Kelsey’s murder was committed for custody of their child.

Solicitation proves premeditation, which rules out a rage killing.

It doesn’t appear that Cowboy Pat would have profited from her death (so no direct financial motive).

Generally in “If I can’t have you, then no one will” killings, the perpetrator doesn’t solicit a murder, rather, he does it himself.

I do think he did end up doing it himself, but the solicitation negates this for me regardless.

With Kelsey out of the picture, no worries about shared custody or child support.

This is the only motive that makes sense to me, at this point.

Me too.

Did PF’s mom babysit? She must be very attached to her Granddaughter. Can’t imagine how it hit her that she wouldn’t see her Grand baby as often, or at all.

 

[MassGuy]

Me too.

Did PF’s mom babysit? She must be very attached to her Granddaughter. Can’t imagine how it hit her that she wouldn’t see her Grand baby as often, or at all.

We don’t know for sure, but I suspect that she spent a lot of time watching her granddaughter.

I imagine that <modsnipped> Pat’s plan, was to kill Kelsey, and ensure that he and mommy would be able to spend all the quality time they wanted, with baby K.

Ironically, instead of years spent together, it was a matter of weeks.

Not exactly what he was going for.

 

[tictoc]

I'm guessing baby K was either at his mother's OR having her afternoon nap. Our youngest granddaughter is just slightly younger than baby K and she naps in the afternoon. I could be wrong, but I think he was expected by KB to arrive to spend TG together. Maybe she was planning dinner. Cinnamon rolls already done before her quick trip to Safeway to pick up some supplies for dinner. Perhaps initially KB was thinking they "might" be going out for dinner but PF convinced her to have dinner at home with him and the baby as it would fit his intentions of doing the unspeakable that very day. It sure will be interesting to know how all of this played out but I imagine it will be some time before we have those queries answered.

The more I think. about it, the more I realize that what PF said about picking up the baby that day may have been a lie, and not a "typical exchange" as my impression has been.
A lie opens up the possibility that he'd gone there that day for other reasons.
(If anyone is thinking "Duh!", I am sorry. I'd make a horrible criminal with all these lies...)

 

[jillianelaine]

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Kelsey’s murder was committed for custody of their child.

Solicitation proves premeditation, which rules out a rage killing.

It doesn’t appear that Cowboy Pat would have profited from her death (so no direct financial motive).

Generally in “If I can’t have you, then no one will” killings, the perpetrator doesn’t solicit a murder, rather, he does it himself.

I do think he did end up doing it himself, but the solicitation negates this for me regardless.

With Kelsey out of the picture, no worries about shared custody or child support.

This is the only motive that makes sense to me, at this point.

Awe come on.... please entertain the idea that she may have witnessed something she should not have seen and he wanted to silence her. And there may have been more than one person who wanted her silenced. Please. For Christmas. Please.

 

[Elley Mae]

I haven’t been able to do distances and directions and could have missed it if it was posted, anyone know the distance/direction from KB’s to safeway to PF’s.?

 

[MassGuy]

Awe come on.... please entertain the idea that she may have witnessed something she should not have seen and he wanted to silence her. And there may have been more than one person who wanted her silenced. Please. For Christmas. Please.

Haaaa. If evidence were to come to light that <modsnipped> Pat was dealing in something other than cattle, then I’ll certainly entertain that.