CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

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yes
they get a bit of free pass toxic women!
thee are just as many cold hearted cruel women out there as men.
its a personality type not gender imo

there are plenty molly martens out there killing beautiful men too

moo
The difference is that more men kill women by far than vice versa. The main reason is that men are bigger and stronger and tend to be more violent and physical, especially when frustrated. I would wager that men are more prone to acting as an agent of a murderous woman but also that women often erroneously protect their man who murder. But women can be evil too (said as a fan of Snapped).
 
What you may view as huge and remote and lacking in people is perceived differently by the rural and local people, particularly if they make their living from the forest (ranching, logging, research, etc.). You may not be aware that you are being directed where the roads are better. What seems empty is "busy" to locals when it is Christmas tree season (or mushroom season or hunting season or ….). Government folks are lurking about too. Visitors to the "wilderness' have a much different perception than those that live nearby and that is the landscape where they live.

That said being a local boy and a "cowboy", PF probably knows the local forests like breathings. PF knows where the roads are good nd bad, where there tend to be more public, where the government employees/wardens lurk, where there all mine shafts and cliffs, and so on. Lots of area to dispose of a body. Wildlife eats and scatter the body. This time of year snow hides.
BBM. But he did not live in a remote location, did he? I took it that he lived on the outskirt of town on 35 acres.
 
I posted in the last thread about my experience of "Christmas tree" patrol when I worked for the USFS. Before university and during university I worked as a Forest Tech for the USFS and then was a Forester post graduation. My last position was a District Silviculturist in charge of reforestation, stand improvement, and cutting prescriptions for timber sales. This occurred between 1969 and 1985 but I am retired now on a NF inholding and the local USFS still sells permits and provides maps to folks wanting to get trees. Time has past and this was in California not Colorad0 so specifics vary now.

Repeating myself, Christmas tree patrol was a fun thing and separate on a volunteer basis from one's regular job plus there was overtime as long days and on weekends. That time of year staffing is low so it was mostly the year round professional employees. I had similar experiences on two different ranger districts. The USFS sells Christmas tree permits. One needs to have a permit visibly attached to trees cut. They cost now I think $20.

"Civilians" were given maps that had areas excluded for cutting and areas suggested or even designed for cutting. Part of this is that there are different tree species. For example red fir and noble fir are what are known as "silver tips" on the Christmas tree lot. The silvertips grew in specific areas and at higher elevations. Locals but even more so folks from the urbanized area 80 miles away made the outings (often the areas were popular for camping, hiking, hunting, fishing other times of the year and had good all weather roads). Much of the commercial timber harvest was clear cuts so there were plantations of Christmas tree sized trees. Suitable plantations were shown on the maps and trees within the plantations marked as non-cut trees. All other trees were fair game for those with tree permits. Being higher elevation often the roads were plowed of snow and folks were directed toward areas where they were less likely to have problems like getting stuck. In general plantations were off limits for cutting unless designated. There were also Douglas-fir plantations designated for cutting but the DF and other species not desired like the silvertips. Some Douglas-fir plantations that had excess trees for a commercial crop were "pre-commercially thinned". Contracts were let for plantations thought to have good Christmas tree potential where the contractor had "salvage rights" and could remove cut trees suitable for sale. This reduced the cost of thinning or even brought in some revenue but wild DF are thinner in foliage than the manicured and grown for Christmas trees that are most commonly sold. Also areas were set up for Boy Scouts to cut and raise money for their needs.

To Christmas tree patrol was mostly to go to near the silvertip and other areas where people knew they could cut. We had maps and permits we could issue on the spot. So the job was fun and merry and we got to interact and be a presence with the public, often families having a quality experience. In the silvertip areas there would be check points going in (recall often in snow or at least winter weather) where we said hi to everyone and counted vehicles. Then was counted vehicles coming out and if vehicles did not come out we would cruise around and get folks out that were stuck, public safety. We were a lurking presence in any case to make sure damage wasn't done, people had permits, and public safety. Also there were people referred to as "Christmas tree poachers" cutting illegally without regard to damage for their own profit. It did no happen much if there were "rangers" roaming about. If we saw evidence, LE would act and we did not confront. I remember this well because it was fun. There were times we decorated our trucks and had coffee and hot chocolate for the public. We often got cookies.

So it did not seem logical to dispose of a body on Fed lands where there are "rangers" lurking and public cutting. Seems reasonable that one looking to dump would go away from Christmas tree areas. An outdoorsy local like say PF would know areas to get good Christmas trees but also areas where the roads were still decent but people scarce during the holidays. Cattle grazing areas are mostly in pine forests and not in the more alpine forests where prime Christmas trees reside.

Sounds like a nice experience! Thanks for sharing this; I wasn't sure how cutting a Christmas tree in the forest worked.
 
I understand people were interviewed that said CB spent a lot of time with KB and baby.

The interview with her Uncle attested to a very close “attached at the hip” relationship between CB and KB. I have that with my 28 year old daughter.

I believe CB. I don’t see her intentionally lieing. I think she knew her girl.

<modsnip - opinion>
 
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BBM. But he did not live in a remote location, did he? I took it that he lived on the outskirt of town on 35 acres.

Florissant seems to not really have a central residential area; it looks like a handful of businesses around one or two main intersections, with the residents all scattered. And yes, very close behind PF's property is National Forest land.

And -- hiya @BuySellTrade , I'm former FS too, R5 even. I only did half a career, between 1990 and 2003 so we wouldn't have overlapped. Besides, I'm an "ologist", not a forester. Anyway, hi!
 
Whiskers16 said:
Please steer away from generalized posts about topics like religion, toxic masculinity, etc. Continued posts like this will be removed and warning points or thread bans will be issued.

Just bringing this forward for those who may have missed it.

Haven't seen any incidents of this. But thank you for the reminder. Always good to be on top of things.
 
Any thoughts regarding progress Idaho and Colorado LE made over the weekend - holiday?
My thoughts have been with the Berreth family especially today.
I think they have found compelling evidence there.

My guess is that they were able to make a connection to atleast one person, who helped PF in either the murder, or the coverup of it.

We know that search warrants were executed, and evidence recovered.

I do get the feeling that her phone was found. Hopefully it is intact.
 
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Florissant seems to not really have a central residential area; it looks like a handful of businesses around one or two main intersections, with the residents all scattered. And yes, very close behind PF's property is National Forest land.

And -- hiya @BuySellTrade , I'm former FS too, R5 even. I only did half a career, between 1990 and 2003 so we wouldn't have overlapped. Besides, I'm an "ologist", not a forester. Anyway, hi!
Well, he only lived 15 miles away from her, so I am not sure that he lived in a remote rancher's property.
 
How good could she of known him ? Short internet courtship - gets pregnant right away- 9 months of that time she was PG - she is killed close to a year after birth. IMHO the red flags were most likely flying daily ! Just a speculation of course .

Yea she would have been pregnant almost immediately upon moving to CO.
 
I think they have found compelling evidence there.

My guess is that they were able to make a connection to atleast one person, who helped PF in either the murder, or the coverup of it.

We know that search warrants were executed, and evidence recovered.

I do get the feeling that her phone was found. Hopefully it is intact.

Agree. And since they had search warrants, they likely had specific evidence from CO that led to them being granted (witness, physical evidence, tech evidence...). I’d love to know what that is
 
BBM. But he did not live in a remote location, did he? I took it that he lived on the outskirt of town on 35 acres.
But the Frazee "ranch" is located on the fringe of 100s of thousands of acres of federal lands, many in range leases. As a local and an outdoorsman, he would know the land. If you are urban or not that familiar with the expansive western USA, you might not have a good feeling for the vast area and a local outdoorsman's perception.

I don't have much of a theory about where KB may be, just watching to see how the sad event plays out. Hope KB is found. Hope for PF's own sake, he comes clean and aids in the recovery but doubt that will happen alas.
 
I wonder if he was super into the old time Wild West, outlaws, and such. It sounds kind of crazy, but in the Natalie Bollinger case, her killer was basically obsessed with anime, his character was a killer, and basically it seems like he wanted to make the character that he made up in his head, come to life. The Wild West is overplayed in books and movies compared to reality, but it may not have mattered.

Probably not this, but after Natalie’s case, I try to think of crazy outlier theories like this.
 
Well, he only lived 15 miles away from her, so I am not sure that he lived in a remote rancher's property.

You're right that his place isn't super remote, and you're also right that his place isn't a ranch (though not because of the size -- lots of ranchers near me have their winter feedlot on not much more than 35 acres, but he has no feed setup at all for any number of animals above just a few).

But I was responding to you responding to a post about the forest lands and how rural folks know their nearby forests well -- the roads, the stands of trees, where they are/aren't likely to run into other people, etc. In terms of possibly having gone for a tree, and in terms of possibly having dumped a body. In that sense PF is effectively right up against National Forest land and probably is as familiar with it as was described. IMO.
 
But the Frazee "ranch" is located on the fringe of 100s of thousands of acres of federal lands, many in range leases. As a local and an outdoorsman, he would know the land. If you are urban or not that familiar with the expansive western USA, you might not have a good feeling for the vast area and a local outdoorsman's perception.

I don't have much of a theory about where KB may be, just watching to see how the sad event plays out. Hope KB is found. Hope for PF's own sake, he comes clean and aids in the recovery but doubt that will happen alas.
This is a good point, and it does not bode well for Kelsey’s recovery.

My feeling for some time now, is that someone is talking.

The fact that her body has yet to be recovered, tells me that this person does not know where she is.

PF might be the only person who does.

He isn’t going to talk, so law enforcement will need some help here. I’m hoping that there is a digital trail that leads them to her location.
 
This is a good point, and it does not bode well for Kelsey’s recovery.

My feeling for some time now, is that someone is talking.

The fact that her body has yet to be recovered, tells me that this person does not know where she is.

PF might be the only person who does.

He isn’t going to talk, so law enforcement will need some help here. I’m hoping that there is a digital trail that leads them to her location.
Agreed. He's not talking. Ugh... he's going to drag this out.

ETO.... yet another woman, another mother, murdered we are discussing here. Over and over again.

Night.
 
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But the Frazee "ranch" is located on the fringe of 100s of thousands of acres of federal lands, many in range leases. As a local and an outdoorsman, he would know the land. If you are urban or not that familiar with the expansive western USA, you might not have a good feeling for the vast area and a local outdoorsman's perception.

I don't have much of a theory about where KB may be, just watching to see how the sad event plays out. Hope KB is found. Hope for PF's own sake, he comes clean and aids in the recovery but doubt that will happen alas.
I am very familiar with vast, unoccupied land. I am not sure that he is, living on a land with no grazing but still being a self proclaimed "cowboy". I think that he is a show pony.
 
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