CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

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Either he was in Idaho on November 25 (should be easy to figure out), or he has an accomplice. Evidence was found after search warrants were executed in Idaho just a few days ago, so police probably have the answer.

I doubt that her body is in Idaho. I too think that she is close to home, not necessarily buried.
I agree. I also think that if an accomplice was the one to make that trip, he didn’t take her body with him.

Most people aren’t going to be willing to but their freedom on the line, in order to move a body for someone else.

So once we found out who took her phone, I think the answer to where she is will be clearer.

If PF made that trip, then she very well could be in Idaho.

If he didn’t, she’s still in Colorado.
 
What's the snow cover like now?
We haven't had significant snow in a couple of weeks. Sunny areas are bare and maybe a couple of inches in the shade (gullies and draws will always be shady due to trees). It's possible to have fire pits (and very common), but we've been under a lot of red flag warnings and burning restrictions. Nobody would let an authorized fire go unreported as we've had multiple big wildfires in the last 20 years.
 
We haven't had significant snow in a couple of weeks. Sunny areas are bare and maybe a couple of inches in the shade (gullies and draws will always be shady due to trees). It's possible to have fire pits (and very common), but we've been under a lot of red flag warnings and burning restrictions. Nobody would let an authorized fire go unreported as we've had multiple big wildfires in the last 20 years.
Welcome to WS! Very good posts IMO.
 
We haven't had significant snow in a couple of weeks. Sunny areas are bare and maybe a couple of inches in the shade (gullies and draws will always be shady due to trees). It's possible to have fire pits (and very common), but we've been under a lot of red flag warnings and burning restrictions. Nobody would let an authorized fire go unreported as we've had multiple big wildfires in the last 20 years.
I don't think a regular fire would very easily burn the bones...especially a skull.
 
We initially did not know where or when Kelsey was murdered, so the theory that Kelsey could have been murdered while cutting a Christmas tree made sense. Today we know that she was most likely murdered at her home shortly after noon on November 22, coinciding with the time that the neighbor saw the red truck parked at her house.

I doubt that a tree cutting place is a likely hiding spot for a body just before Christmas. I also think it's unlikely that he drove far with a body in his truck, probably less than 20 miles. The question I have is whether he moved the body twice, perhaps once to the acreage and then with the extra week to cover his tracks, perhaps it was moved again.
I also think KB's body made it to the ranch and was moved again.
 
Woodland Park is surrounded by National Forest. The town itself is mostly forested. The tree cutting area is northeast on Rampart Range and would have been busy. Thousands of people from Colorado Springs go up there, especially Thanksgiving weekend. That being said, there's a lot of public property in every direction and a lot of forest service roads crisscrossing the area. It would be very easy to go out to a place he knew in the dead of night and not be seen by anyone. There are only 1-2 rangers assigned to the Pikes Peak Ranger district, and they have to cover hundreds of square miles. It would be more likely for a local to see someone than a ranger. No grazing on public lands (through leases) is allowed past mid-October. It's summer only.
We are pretty much in agreement though you obviously know the specifics better than where I have never been. There are probably more than 1 or 2 people watching the Christmas tree cutting. As I related USFS employees did Christmas tree patrol where recreation or however Christmas tree duties are now budgeted/classified had people outside their normal jobs. Also the only "Rangers" in the USFS are one District Ranger per Ranger District and Ranger is the head administrator for an RD. The folks out patrolling are Recreation Technicians or LE or ??? Essentially never the District Ranger. I also agree highly likely to be observed by a local but there are probably more Feds lurking about, particularly at the time and place for thousands of tree cutters. The USFS pays attention to the Christmas tree cutting. My Dad's family had Federal grazing leases plus as noted I worked USFS and I grew up around horses and cattle (back in 50s and 60s but alfalfa and calves until the 1970s). My Dad had a 400 acre ranch, a NF inholding, with 25 acre and 8 acre patches of alfalfa. In the Fall he would buy at auction 15 to 30 calves who would subsist on alfalfa he did not sell on cutting and stored baled in pole barns for winter feed. The calves would be rotated through the winter via hot fence on about 60 acres including the alfalfa patches.

Thank you for the local detail.
 
The area where Frazee lived is only about 1/2 mile off Hwy 24 and 60% of the property is forested. It's not a ranch like you would think of one out here in the West. It's just a 35-acre horse property. Their property is 60% forested with not a lot of graze available for livestock, so would likely have to supplement feed any livestock in the summer and probably 100 percent in the winter. There's a barn and corral on property and no natural sources of surface water.
 

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That jibes with my thinking here.

Most killers want to get rid of a body right away, and certainly don’t like to hold on to one for days.

They also don’t like to travel long distances with a body.

So I do think it’s more likely that she is close to home.

This guy did have the benefit of time, and the means to move a body though.

That ping shows that he, or someone else, traveled to Idaho at some point. It’s not out of the question that Kelsey’s body also made the trip.

But for that to happen, he would have had to have taken the body to one location, and then moved it a second time to take it towards Idaho.

He may have buried her once, and then dug her up again.
Possible, but I just don't see that burying her at the ranch is necessary, besides it would be a little risky with his mom around? If he brought the body and baby K home, hung around for a bit with mom until baby went to bed and then told her he was going out for a beer with the guys? We know the murder was planned. He surely had an idea of where he wanted to dispose of the body. This scenario makes me think she's closer to home as he would have to be back in a few hours to not raise suspicion in his mother. 12 hrs to Idaho may be pushing it :) Of course, another scenario would be someone took her to Idaho with the phone. It is a puzzle and I wish we had just a few more pieces to work with here.
 
I read that murderers make trips to the body, to check whether it is still there. Perhaps it makes sense to find out where PF might usually go, even daily, without raising suspicions. Walk the dogs, train the dogs? I think whatever the place is, it should be pretty well-known to him. So if someone would see him going there, it would look perfectly commonplace.

Even if he moved it, there still should be some traces.
 
I don’t think baby K was planned, if baby 2 was on its way it was not planned either. IMO

I don’t feel full custody was his motive and I don’t believe KB was planning to move back to Idaho (and if she did , he could simply go to court and easily prevent her from taking baby K with her to Idaho...or anywhere outside a a reasonable distance from his residence.)

So what’s his motive ?
It might not reside with domestic issues. What are some of the other possibilities for him wanting her silenced? Did she witness something she should not have seen?
 
ok... and your point is?
Can I quote from your post, please?
“my opinion ONLY: we can teach our sons and daughters to REALLY REALLY get to know someone before marriage (like 2+ years plus pre-marriage counseling, etc). And, then after vows, consummate. We can teach our children it's OK to wait for marriage before shedding clothes.”

Here is my opinion. Our kids tend to get married much later in life than we did. If anything, from the biological point, perhaps it is too late, but economy dictates childbirth.

I am not so sure abstinence till marriage is healthy, reasonable, or even works for everyone. (unless I did not understand your point, but I hope I did).

What I think we absolutely need to teach our kids is how to protect themselves and their partners, from pregnancy, but maybe even more, from STDs, and everything affecting the lives of their posterity.

But I agree that premarital counseling is a good idea.
 
I have a friend who was a Jehovah Witness. In her mid twenties she questioned the way she was raised and decided to leave the church. She said she missed out on a lot of the activities that "normal kids" do. (This was how SHE referred to it). She never decorated a Christmas tree, attended a school prom, and was forbidden to go away to college. Her friends were limited to other members of the church. And then she enlightened me to what had happened with her existing relationships when she left the church.. How she was ostracized. And how she was all alone. She picked up her bags, moved to a new town, and met a man. I think it may have been the first romantic partner she had. (Maybe she was thirty) What she thought was "true love" was to him, nothing more than some casual sex from someone he met on the internet. In her mind, they were dating, In his, they were merely friends with benefits. It took her a little more than a year to realize it was anything but a loving relationship. How sad. I wonder if PF called KB his fiancé?

Very sorry for your friend. I hope she found happiness later.

About KB and PF, it seems to me that we need verified insiders to post, but it ain’t gonna happen before the investigation is over. I think knowing more about them could help find her body, but today, we don’t know anything about their relationship, nor what kind of people they were. I can’t assume anything for the lack of information. I hope one day we know more.
 
I agree. I also think that if an accomplice was the one to make that trip, he didn’t take her body with him.

Most people aren’t going to be willing to but their freedom on the line, in order to move a body for someone else.

So once we found out who took her phone, I think the answer to where she is will be clearer.

If PF made that trip, then she very well could be in Idaho.

If he didn’t, she’s still in Colorado.
IMHO, she's still in Colorado, but I have been wrong before and I wouldn't put anything past this guy. Hopefully, we will get some answers soon. What did LE find in ID? What did they learn from examining PF's red truck?
 
Occam's Razor. Domestic is likely and common in these types of cases.
I’m not so sure about that.

Initially, I did believe that she was killed in a domestic violence incident.

The fact that he is charged with first-degree murder, and solicitation to commit first-degree murder, means that there was premeditation here.

This indicates that it wasn’t a crime of passion, but a planned killing.
 
Very sorry for your friend. I hope she found happiness later.

About KB and PF, it seems to me that we need verified insiders to post, but it ain’t gonna happen before the investigation is over. I think knowing more about them could help find her body, but today, we don’t know anything about their relationship, nor what kind of people they were. I can’t assume anything for the lack of information. I hope one day we know more.
 
I’m not so sure about that.

Initially, I did believe that she was killed in a domestic violence incident.

The fact that he is charged with first-degree murder, and solicitation to commit first-degree murder, means that there was premeditation here.

This indicates that it wasn’t a crime of passion, but a planned killing.

The motive appears to be clear in this case: sole custody of their daughter.

PF had means, motive and opportunity.

There is no doubt in my mind that this killing was pre-meditated with other involvement, similar to the family involvement of the Karyn Hearn Slover murder. I keep wondering if KB's body parts are going to turn up, although I hope she wasn't dismembered for the sake of her family and loved ones.


moo
 
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