CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

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I read that murderers make trips to the body, to check whether it is still there. Perhaps it makes sense to find out where PF might usually go, even daily, without raising suspicions. Walk the dogs, train the dogs? I think whatever the place is, it should be pretty well-known to him. So if someone would see him going there, it would look perfectly commonplace.

Even if he moved it, there still should be some traces.
Good point, but awful thought.
 
IMHO, she's still in Colorado, but I have been wrong before and I wouldn't put anything past this guy. Hopefully, we will get some answers soon. What did LE find in ID? What did they learn from examining PF's red truck?

I was hoping PF would change his tune after a couple nights in jail and tell LE where to find KB in exchange for leniency. Her family already knows she was murdered, he could at least let the family give her a proper burial.
 
This is a good point, and it does not bode well for Kelsey’s recovery.

My feeling for some time now, is that someone is talking.

The fact that her body has yet to be recovered, tells me that this person does not know where she is.
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PF might be the only person who does.

He isn’t going to talk, so law enforcement will need some help here. I’m hoping that there is a digital trail that leads them to her location.
I really hope that KB is recovered so her family can lay her to rest among those who have loved her and gone on before her. I remember that Shanann's family was so relieved when they had her and her daughters. Her dad said something to the effect, "It's ok, Baby. We have you now." It was so sad but it was probably a very good explanation of how those who have missing loved ones feel.
 
Climbing skins are devices you put on your skis to give your slick, waxed skis some grip when the ground is icy. Apparently someone took these off his skis and accidentally left them hanging on a tree. Almost everything that has to do with skiing is expensive including climbing skins. It's not creepy that this person is hoping to find his lost equipment.
Climbing Skins | Backcountry.com
 
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Climbing skins are devices you put on your skis to give your slick, waxed skis some grip when the ground is icy. Apparently someone took these off his skis and accidentally left them hanging on a tree. Almost everything that has to do with skiing is expensive including climbing skins. It's not creepy that this person is hoping to find his lost equipment.
Climbing Skins | Backcountry.com

This guy is probably OK, however, as the holding spot, esp temporary, a mountain is good. Cold. And there are random mountains to climb.
 
So the time delay has given PF a bit of a time advantage in terms of LE having to catch up on the fact that Kelsey was missing and was murdered.And that is truly unconscionably.

BUT that works two ways. PF would be expecting LE to believe his on demand excuse scenario that he has set up for Kelsey's disappearance and later down the track could claim that he didn't remember what he was doing at that time, 'oh it was 3 weeks ago' kinda thing. .

AND....during this week it is unlikely he had his phone switched off the whole time so I reckon it will be just a matter of time before LE piece together his movements and people involved in his movements. If he had a burner phone or used a mates phone then that is going to make it more difficult. But he is NOT smarter than LE so he better get used to the idea
 
I’m not so sure about that.

Initially, I did believe that she was killed in a domestic violence incident.

The fact that he is charged with first-degree murder, and solicitation to commit first-degree murder, means that there was premeditation here.

This indicates that it wasn’t a crime of passion, but a planned killing.
Great point!!!
 
I was hoping PF would change his tune after a couple nights in jail and tell LE where to find KB in exchange for leniency. Her family already knows she was murdered, he could at least let the family give her a proper burial.

I would hope for that as well, but the problem is if he tells them where her body is that sure takes away a lot of reasonable doubt. Even though they don’t need a body to prosecute, I would think it would make it a lot easier. So from his perspective and I’m sure his lawyers as well, it probably doesn’t make much sense to give up the location. Unless he’s ready to confess and like you said try to make a deal...
 
From what I have learned about cellphones, reading these threads, i’d say, one should destroy the victim’s phone ASAP. But people might be greedy. “Oh, a new iPhone? Why don’t I just replace SIM card and keep it?” Something like it.

This phone is NOT necessary for diversion calls any longer. I’d pay someone to go to Mexico and text from Cabo San Lucas, using a local burner. I don’t know how actively Interpol would be able to help today.

I do not think this will be the case but their are applications and other software that can relay phone locations. I think in this situation they actually have the phone location and phone. I also think this phone was physically moved to ID but we all should become more familiar with apps and routing techniques.
 
"I also believe it’s possible KB wanted to move to Idaho to have her mother watch the baby instead. I’m not sure how PF would’ve taken that given I imagine his mother was closely bonded to the baby."

I think that^^^ is the key right there. I think he wanted custody FOR HIS MOTHER'S SAKE. I think he did it to please his mother because he was so dependent upon her financially and emotionally. She would have been very upset to lose her time with her grand baby.

This would be the biggest parts of custody 1) a job or consistent demonstrable business in your ownership and 2) a home rented or owned to provide for the child as a consistent environment. Full-time custody looks like it would stay with KB with visitation to PF if at all. If he had paid consistent child support that might help and medical care. In South Carolina, we have Common Law (law), we means if you live together for any amount time all rights of marriage inact. Not sure about CO.
 
hi everyone, i've been reading the thread for several days, following case since start, and decided to join. anyway since the charges what has been in my mind is PF might have asked someone to transport the phone to ID saying KB forgot it when she left for her supposed trip. maybe this person was to meet KB at a location in ID and of course she never showed up. perhaps PF even made a hotel/motel reservation using KB phone for a stop in ID and the phone was to be dropped off there. anyway, very interesting discussion.
 
I have not heard her full name or date of birth. I know many unmarried couples will use both names ie. Berreth-Frazee. Most fathers that I have known that were present at the birth and believe they are the father either do the double name or their name. How did you find out that Kelsy did not give the baby his last name?

This means he has no legal claims. He would have to go through DNA testing then the rest of legal filing (if the arrest did not occur). If would have KB's decision how to complete the birth certificate and frankly the first drawn line around protecting her daughter.
 
I was hoping PF would change his tune after a couple nights in jail and tell LE where to find KB in exchange for leniency. Her family already knows she was murdered, he could at least let the family give her a proper burial.
That would be the best thing, but I suspect PF will plead not guilty. It's incredulous in my opinion, but so many murderers do it. Like Dellen Millard he may have enough hubris to actually think he has a chance of getting off. He and his accomplice, Dumb and WAY Dumber, still profess their innocence!
 
This would be the biggest parts of custody 1) a job or consistent demonstrable business in your ownership and 2) a home rented or owned to provide for the child as a consistent environment. Full-time custody looks like it would stay with KB with visitation to PF if at all. If he had paid consistent child support that might help and medical care. In South Carolina, we have Common Law (law), we means if you live together for any amount time all rights of marriage inact. Not sure about CO.

Iirc, common law does not apply as her mother said in the press conference very clearly they have never lived together.
 
Sounds like a nice experience! Thanks for sharing this; I wasn't sure how cutting a Christmas tree in the forest worked.
It was a wonderful experience, even living in an area that did not get a lot of snow. I remember one time big flakes were flying as we wandered around a great-uncle's forest, looking for our tree. It was a magical, memorable time.

It's great to have hear how Christmas tree hunting works on government property. However, where we live much of the mountain land is still privately owned. You can usually get permission from a relative or someone you know to go wander through the woods to pick out a tree. (I think most people now buy from a non-profit because it is their big fundraiser for the year.)

There are also pick-your-own Christmas tree farms that have activities and food available during the busy season. Plus, someone to cut your tree, wrap it and tie it onto your car -- all of which you have to figure out on your own when you're visiting a relative's land and choosing your own.

However, if you had something devious in mind, you would also know where to go that people didn't wander. I suspect that as a boy PF and his friends spent lots of time exploring and running around over the land. Even my city born and raised kid had friends and acreage.

There's one road where we live that has had several bodies discovered down over the side. May be others, we don't know, of course. Decades ago, a man killed his girlfriend in the parking lot of his apartment complex, put her in the back of his truck and hauled her to that road. Managed to dump her body over the side of the mountain and got into the truck to leave. He was so stressed, he put the truck into reverse instead of forward and backed himself down over the mountain. The weight of the pickup took him further down the hill than his girlfriend's body, where he and his truck remained for a day or two. He had two broken legs and was badly injured.

His story was that they were set-upon at the parking lot and both taken to be dumped off, but he was convicted of murder and sent to prison.

There's another mountain, 100 miles or so away, where the Interstate runs up a mountain. It is rumored that the steep sides are another favorite dump site.

So, if PF had wanted to dispose of anything, I suspect he had remote options that would have required little more of him than a short drive . . . The reason I'm on this thread is because of Teller County in the headline. We visited long ago and loved the area, but from my memory, there would be lots of hiding places.
 
The motive appears to be clear in this case: sole custody of their daughter.

PF had means, motive and opportunity.

There is no doubt in my mind that this killing was pre-meditated with other involvement, similar to the family involvement of the Karyn Hearn Slover murder. I keep wondering if KB's body parts are going to turn up, although I hope she wasn't dismembered for the sake of her family and loved ones.


moo

I agree about motive. Was trying to come up with Karyn’s name last week, as that the first “custodial” murder I became aware of some years ago...a horrible murder and one of far too many for the same motive.
 
Common law is strange and it is not recognized in my state but is in Colorado.

What I was told is the couple has to "present" themselves as married and I do not know if that includes actually living together.
It seems to be a gray area to me.

Maybe an attorney with knowledge of CO. law can weigh in.
 
Great point!!!
Domestic violence can be premeditated. I don't think of a domestic violence incident resulting in murder as a one-time crime of passion. Rather the opposite. If this is what happened, then there was almost certainly a history of domestic abuse in the relationship as well, whether it was physical or emotional or verbal.

I agree with the Occam's Razor hypothesis. Most likely scenario is, in my opinion, KB was in an abusive relationship with the father of her baby and was planning to leave him. IMO, PF would not let that happen. Motive probably a mix of not wanting to give up his child, whether or not he had a good relationship with her, and not wanting to lose. IMO, all about control. He could've planned the murder itself to whatever degree, but that is not mutually exclusive from this being about domestic violence.
 
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