Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[deugirtni]

The author of the article was a guy that wrote a book on Big Pharma. I found the link in the RFD forum.

Yes thank you, someone else posted the information. My position still stands however, in that, at least regarding his personal life, he could afford to stick to his principles, and so he did. "... people seem to expect that just because of his vast wealth, he should just be happy to make nuisances go away by throwing a few hundred thousand at them. And then they call him 'cheap' if he chooses instead to see it to the end in our courts. Pretty sick, imo."

 

[andreww]

Kerry, glad to see you back.

You know what, I understand the resentment; I get it. My own parents were well off but never actually "gave" me a dime. They kept a ledger and I swear it went back to when I was a little kid asking for a nickel for the bubblegum machine.

As I grew up, any help always came with strings attached. Even if those strings were only an hour-long lecture on my own inadequacies, it takes a toll.
And the ledger was ALWAYS dragged out whether it was 10 dollars or 100, and year-to-date was always totaled up.

In my case I had small children to support, and a deadbeat father who would not, and college tuition to pay, but hey whatever. All I'm saying is I DO get it. Resentment and hurt creeps in, no matter how adult you try to be.

I also understand how a protracted court case can skew emotions. The initial reaction can easily be colored by this long-standing fight; one is still "in the moment", if you know what I mean. I'm pretty sure you do.

What I don't understand is why you said the things you now publicly admit were lies.

Do you now regret saying that you are glad they are dead?


Also since you are obviously more familiar with the Sherman's & their backstory than any of us I am wondering - I am hoping! - that at times you do entertain the notion that this was POSSIBLY a targeted M/M and have some alternate theory in mind that you would care share with us.

Again, I do appreciate your coming back to the forum. I know it must be hard for you.

As far as I can tell Kerry has never admitted to lying. If you watch the video you will see that Kerry is quite shocked that he had failed the lie detector test. That in itself should tell you something because I don't think he's that good of an actor. At that point the guy that performed the test starts suggesting excuses to him, "maybe you embellished" and Kerry reluctantly takes the bait. Lie detector tests are not foolproof, and I very highly doubt that conducting one in the midst of a television news expose would make it any more accurate. Kerry was railroaded by the 5th Estate, plain and simple.

 

[andreww]

What a basta** BS was!! To be such an alleged intelligent man, that statement that the children were HIS alone had to sound dumb to the people he said it to as we all know it takes a male and a female to make a baby.

For a husband who supposedly loved his wife, how much more could BS disrespect and put Honey down? This statement shows what an egotistical one up you man he was! He had to be number one in everything he did.

I didn’t even know they had surrogates at the time the Sherman’s were having children.

No you didn't. The media would prefer to paint them as the perfect couple.

 

[andreww]

Yes thank you, someone else posted the information. My position still stands however, in that, at least regarding his personal life, he could afford to stick to his principles, and so he did. "... people seem to expect that just because of his vast wealth, he should just be happy to make nuisances go away by throwing a few hundred thousand at them. And then they call him 'cheap' if he chooses instead to see it to the end in our courts. Pretty sick, imo."

You can look at it that way, or you can consider that Barry had learned that if you throw enough money at a case, you can win it, right or wrong.

 

[deugirtni]

You can look at it that way, or you can consider that Barry had learned that if you throw enough money at a case, you can win it, right or wrong.

I don't think you can really say that, because it seems that the 'orphans' have been putting money or good will into this for over a decade now, being the ones to initiate it, and taking it to appeal, and possibly now onto the Supreme Court of Canada.. so they are being just as tenacious in their beliefs as Barry is in his beliefs... one of those sides has to win, and one has to lose. Even with throwing money at a case, it can't win based on no merit and just money and tenacity, otherwise there'd have to be a way for them both to win.

 

[Tortoise]

As far as I can tell Kerry has never admitted to lying. If you watch the video you will see that Kerry is quite shocked that he had failed the lie detector test. That in itself should tell you something because I don't think he's that good of an actor. At that point the guy that performed the test starts suggesting excuses to him, "maybe you embellished" and Kerry reluctantly takes the bait. Lie detector tests are not foolproof, and I very highly doubt that conducting one in the midst of a television news expose would make it any more accurate. Kerry was railroaded by the 5th Estate, plain and simple.

The thing about polygraphs is that they are standardized and that is why they take so long. The interviewee's anxiety in sitting the test is a baseline and questions are rehearsed in advance so that there are no surprises. Factual questions are asked to establish a baseline for truth and if what KW told them had happened in the past with Barry was the truth there would be no reason for the machine to spike when he answered that question but not others of equal fact. He wasn't being asked if he murdered them.

 

[andreww]

I don't think you can really say that, because it seems that the 'orphans' have been putting money or good will into this for over a decade now, being the ones to initiate it, and taking it to appeal, and possibly now onto the Supreme Court of Canada.. so they are being just as tenacious in their beliefs as Barry is in his beliefs... one of those sides has to win, and one has to lose. Even with throwing money at a case, it can't win based on no merit and just money and tenacity, otherwise there'd have to be a way for them both to win.

You are naive. One only has to look at the OJ Simpson case to know that decisions can indeed be bought. Obviously it is not a given, but in many cases good lawyering outweighs right/wrong.

In criminal law money will buy you testimony from experts, it allows for scientific evidence testing, it allows you to have more bodies to follow up on leads. In civil cases many decisions are based on what has already been decided in the past. Unlimited funds allows one to have lawyers researching those cases, searching for presidents, private investigators to dig up information, and whatever else they need to spend it on. It's a game, and Barry always has a professional lineup, while the cousins likely had nothing better than a second rate college team.

 

[andreww]

The thing about polygraphs is that they are standardized and that is why they take so long. The interviewee's anxiety in sitting the test is a baseline and questions are rehearsed in advance so that there are no surprises. Factual questions are asked to establish a baseline for truth and if what KW told them had happened in the past with Barry was the truth there would be no reason for the machine to spike when he answered that question but not others of equal fact. He wasn't being asked if he murdered them.

You are going to sit here and tell me that polygraphs are 100% accurate? Because they are not.

The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious.

 

[JDG]

You are naive. One only has to look at the OJ Simpson case to know that decisions can indeed be bought. Obviously it is not a given, but in many cases good lawyering outweighs right/wrong.

In criminal law money will buy you testimony from experts, it allows for scientific evidence testing, it allows you to have more bodies to follow up on leads. In civil cases many decisions are based on what has already been decided in the past. Unlimited funds allows one to have lawyers researching those cases, searching for presidents, private investigators to dig up information, and whatever else they need to spend it on. It's a game, and Barry always has a professional lineup, while the cousins likely had nothing better than a second rate college team.

This was a CIVIL case, not criminal.

 

[MistyWaters]

You are going to sit here and tell me that polygraphs are 100% accurate? Because they are not.

The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious.

Who but Kerry has ever appeared on a TV program and offers up a story about agreeing to arrange a killing to take the life of an innocent person? He ought to have later breathed a sigh of relief that he failed the lie detector test. You can’t see how his confession appeared extremely self-incriminating?

Furthermore his 20 year old ridiculous story proved absolutely nothing about what actually took place in the Sherman residence on the night of Dec 13th.

 

[MistyWaters]

You are naive. One only has to look at the OJ Simpson case to know that decisions can indeed be bought. Obviously it is not a given, but in many cases good lawyering outweighs right/wrong.

In criminal law money will buy you testimony from experts, it allows for scientific evidence testing, it allows you to have more bodies to follow up on leads. In civil cases many decisions are based on what has already been decided in the past. Unlimited funds allows one to have lawyers researching those cases, searching for presidents, private investigators to dig up information, and whatever else they need to spend it on. It's a game, and Barry always has a professional lineup, while the cousins likely had nothing better than a second rate college team.

So Kerry got shafted by Barry Sherman.
He got shafted by the 5th Estate.
He got shafted by the Courts.

This case pertains to the double homicides of Barry and Honey Sherman. Isn’t it kind of weird for Kerry, alive and well, to become the sole victim?

 

[andreww]

Furthermore his 20 year old ridiculous story proved absolutely nothing about what actually took place in the Sherman residence on the night of Dec 13th.

Evidence shows what took place at the Sherman residence that night, and judging by comments within hours of the crime, it was pretty obvious what had happened.

 

[andreww]

This was a CIVIL case, not criminal.

Same rules apply. Best team wins. And read my post again, I quite clearly stated that this was a civil case.

 

[andreww]

Who but Kerry has ever appeared on a TV program and offers up a story about agreeing to arrange a killing to take the life of an innocent person? He ought to have later breathed a sigh of relief that he failed the lie detector test. You can’t see how his confession appeared extremely self-incriminating?

Even more reason to believe it.

I don't see the logic of your arguments. Kerry was getting a good deal money from Barry, more than most will earn in a lifetime, correct? Kerry and Barry have both admitted that they got along well, so much so that Kerry considered Barry to be a father figure to him. So he's getting free money from someone he likes. Why in god's name do you think Kerry would throw all that away? It obviously wasn't greed because he seemed to be doing alright at the time. That is the reason that I believe Kerry 100%. The only thing more important than money is the importance of family, and Kerry realized that Barry had for all intense purposes taken credit for Lou Winter's work, eliminating the orphans legacy at the same time. Ask yourself why Barry would sell Empire and start an identical business shortly after, even hiring away Empires top people? Possibly he knew he was into something that would be worth billions, and 5% per orphan was going to cost him a lot more than he wanted to pay? But no, Barry was a nice guy and would never think about something like that right?

 

[andreww]

What I am trying to say is that courts deal in legalities not moralities. There is no doubt in my mind that Barry was well within the law in everything he did with Empire, thus the orphans probably don't have a leg to stand on. However, I also have no doubt that the reason Barry unloaded Empire was because he saw the business's potential and he did not want to share that with a partner or with four orphans down the road.

 

[casesensitive]

I read a piece about him yesterday and a quote from a colleague stated that Barry would spend $3 million dollars to get out of paying someone $150,000. He's not the kind of guy you want to piss off.

rsbm

Andreww, could you please start providing links for your facts? Below is the actual quote that you misquoted, which has an entirely different context. TIA


“Barry was a prick, if he needed you to pay $150,000 he wouldn’t hesitate to spend $3 million in court. It was all about winning for him,” Robinson said.

SHERMAN MURDERS: Did organized crime kill billionaire?
SHERMAN MURDERS: Did organized crime kill billionaire?

edited to fix link

 

[JDG]

Evidence shows what took place at the Sherman residence that night, and judging by comments within hours of the crime, it was pretty obvious what had happened.

What evidence would that be?? Do we have access to 'evidence'???
Don't think so.

 

[human]

Family? Kerry’s mother ditched family for strangers. Who knows why.

What part could Kerry play in a drug company? CEO? Chemist? Janitor? What exactly is his skill set?

What exactly has he done with all of the gifts he was given in life? What happened to the rest of the inheritance from his father? The Winters had other businesses?

 

[JDG]

Even more reason to believe it.

I don't see the logic of your arguments. Kerry was getting a good deal money from Barry, more than most will earn in a lifetime, correct? Kerry and Barry have both admitted that they got along well, so much so that Kerry considered Barry to be a father figure to him. So he's getting free money from someone he likes. Why in god's name do you think Kerry would throw all that away? It obviously wasn't greed because he seemed to be doing alright at the time. That is the reason that I believe Kerry 100%. The only thing more important than money is the importance of family, and Kerry realized that Barry had for all intense purposes taken credit for Lou Winter's work, eliminating the orphans legacy at the same time. Ask yourself why Barry would sell Empire and start an identical business shortly after, even hiring away Empires top people? Possibly he knew he was into something that would be worth billions, and 5% per orphan was going to cost him a lot more than he wanted to pay? But no, Barry was a nice guy and would never think about something like that right?

Please show MSM links to your posts. Perhaps KW and his brothers thought that the money being given/loaned to them wasn't enough. Perhaps they wanted a good chunk of the business?

What is $20,000 per month compared to a billion??

 

[MistyWaters]

If that's the way you see it, good for you, I wouldn't expect anything less from you. Kerry Winter has more insight about the Shermans in his baby finger than you have in your entire head, yet you chose to discredit him at every turn. Why is that? Because he lost a lawsuit? You honestly think he ever stood a chance against Barry Sherman? Because he failed a unreliable polygraph sprung on him while filming a TV show? Let me ask you why the 5th Estate didn't bother to maybe get a comment from the person Kerry talked to all those years ago? I'll tell you why, because they are lazy incompetent journalists. They interview freeloading Frank instead, who is going to give nothing but a glowing opinion of Barry. You, like the journalists on the 5th Estate are an amateur hack detective at best, and because you can add 1+1 you figure Kerry must have done it. You are wrong. And other than an initial questioning, I don't believe TPS has so much as spoken to Kerry in the past year. Why do you think that is? He had motive, he has no alibi. Why do you think that is? Why do you think they haven't collected fingerprints from the realtors or their clients? Why do you think that Gomes hasn't been on this case in months? Why is there only one officer actively working it? Why did police all but tell the press it was a murder suicide, and why did they continue to only list Honey as a victim for more than a month? Why, if the autopsy showed evidence of wrist bindings within hours of the crime, didn't TPS publicly announce that this was a murder, especially given the family's outrage? Why did Mayor Tory pay a visit to chief Saunders immediately after the funeral? Why did TPS suddenly change direction within a couple of days of that visit?

But ya, "six weeks of evidence" is a good enough explanation for you right? Maybe Susan Gomes has got a position for you at her new command centre, you'd fit right in.

Andreww are you not an “amateur hack detective at best” also or is there more you’re not telling us?