Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[William_60]

So Kerry got shafted by Barry Sherman.
He got shafted by the 5th Estate.
He got shafted by the Courts.

This case pertains to the double homicides of Barry and Honey Sherman. Isn’t it kind of weird for Kerry, alive and well, to become the sole victim?

And, hey, everybody loves Pharma.

Barry became wealthy rising to the top in a business the whole world simply adores, therefore he's the beneficiary of profound and seemingly infinite love.

Have we all hugged Pharma today, yet?

t-i-c

 

[William_60]

Even more reason to believe it.

I don't see the logic of your arguments. Kerry was getting a good deal money from Barry, more than most will earn in a lifetime, correct? Kerry and Barry have both admitted that they got along well, so much so that Kerry considered Barry to be a father figure to him. So he's getting free money from someone he likes. Why in god's name do you think Kerry would throw all that away? It obviously wasn't greed because he seemed to be doing alright at the time. That is the reason that I believe Kerry 100%. The only thing more important than money is the importance of family, and Kerry realized that Barry had for all intense purposes taken credit for Lou Winter's work, eliminating the orphans legacy at the same time. Ask yourself why Barry would sell Empire and start an identical business shortly after, even hiring away Empires top people? Possibly he knew he was into something that would be worth billions, and 5% per orphan was going to cost him a lot more than he wanted to pay? But no, Barry was a nice guy and would never think about something like that right?

Why does ANY successful business sell, build anew and expand???

I'll hang up and wait.

 

[WINDSOR]

I am going to asume, for a moment, Barry killed Honey.

He did it with malice and forethought, as Kerry has implied that Barry wanted Honey dead for years.
Barry just snapped, could not tolerate Honey any longer and kills her.

Honey is dead and Barry has some choices.

a) He can call the police, Barry will likely be arrested, but Barry based on his past court experiences feels he will not go to jail.

b) He can arrange the scene to appear to be an accident or a suicide by Honey. (He had come home and found her dead) Remember according to KW, the plan was only to kill Honey. Barry could even claim it was an assisted suicide, as Honey did not want to die of cancer. Police will not view Barry as a murderer and not lay charges........... Alternatively Barry can put her to bed, call her doctor in the morning, and say she died in her sleep. No cops, no autopsy, the Sherman family doctor is not likely cause alarm. People die in their sleep all the time. This last choice is the simplest and neatest choice.

c) Out of remorse, shame and guilt Barry can kill himself. He leaves a note explaining what happened, his reasons and asks his family and friends for forgiveness.

d) Out of remorse, shame and guilt and to avoid public humiliation and jail time, Barry can kill himself. He will stage the bodies together, in fact he can make it look like a double murder, so Barry will look 'innocent'. Barry a man of warmth and kindness will feel good knowing that by killing himself, his family will be spared a long court battle and the resultant publicity. By making it appear that he and Honey were murdered he knows the family's reputation is intact. With Barry's superior intellect and judgement he leaves no notes or explanations knowing very well the politicians and legal authorities will fall in line with his subterfuge.

If Barry is, as suggested, a man without feeling empathy or remorse, killing himself does not make sense. Most killers do not kill themselves unless cornered by law enforcement.

In summary I believe to understand what really happened, one has to understand Barry's personality. Did he accept consequences, consider other people's feelings, avoid confrontation? Then suicide is probable.

On the other hand if Barry was fighter, always wanted to be right, never surrendered and fought to the end regardless of what other people thought? Then suicide does not appear probable.

If you were as smart as Barry what would you have done if you had murdered Honey?

 

[casesensitive]

As far as I can tell Kerry has never admitted to lying. If you watch the video you will see that Kerry is quite shocked that he had failed the lie detector test. That in itself should tell you something because I don't think he's that good of an actor. At that point the guy that performed the test starts suggesting excuses to him, "maybe you embellished" and Kerry reluctantly takes the bait. Lie detector tests are not foolproof, and I very highly doubt that conducting one in the midst of a television news expose would make it any more accurate. Kerry was railroaded by the 5th Estate, plain and simple.

Kerry clearly failed the polygraph and willingly admitted to lying. Now you are twisting his (false) admission into blaming the guy who performed the polygraph? Well at least you are consistent in blaming everybody else.

"Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test."

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

 

[MistyWaters]

And, hey, everybody loves Pharma.

Barry became wealthy rising to the top in a business the whole world simply adores, therefore he's the beneficiary of profound and seemingly infinite love.

Have we all hugged Pharma today, yet?

t-i-c

Surprisingly I agree not a lot of hugging happening, even though as a general population we Canadians sure appear to cherish our meds and at an affordable price too.

 

[MistyWaters]

Kerry clearly failed the polygraph and willingly admitted to lying. Now you are twisting his (false) admission into blaming the guy who performed the polygraph? Well at least you are consistent in blaming everybody else.

"Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

"He was lying, and the test results — the polygraphist — confirms that," said Michael Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., who observed the polygraph test."

Barry Sherman's cousin fails lie detector test over allegation of plot to kill Honey Sherman | CBC News

Plus other excuses he later gave Warmington -

“The failing grade, he said, could have happened as a result of his past drug use and “possibly only because it happened over 20 years ago and my memory isn’t the best.”....”
WARMINGTON: Sherman cousin Kerry Winter speaks with Toronto Police

 

[William_60]

L

Even more reason to believe it.

I don't see the logic of your arguments. Kerry was getting a good deal money from Barry, more than most will earn in a lifetime, correct? Kerry and Barry have both admitted that they got along well, so much so that Kerry considered Barry to be a father figure to him. So he's getting free money from someone he likes. Why in god's name do you think Kerry would throw all that away? It obviously wasn't greed because he seemed to be doing alright at the time. That is the reason that I believe Kerry 100%. The only thing more important than money is the importance of family, and Kerry realized that Barry had for all intense purposes taken credit for Lou Winter's work, eliminating the orphans legacy at the same time. Ask yourself why Barry would sell Empire and start an identical business shortly after, even hiring away Empires top people? Possibly he knew he was into something that would be worth billions, and 5% per orphan was going to cost him a lot more than he wanted to pay? But no, Barry was a nice guy and would never think about something like that right?

---

He didn't throw anything away. The tap was going to be turned off, though.

I think there's reason to believe the boys, some if not all, had a plan to file a suit all along, and the tap-turning greenlighted the suit.

Why sign on to accept promissory notes totalling thousands and then millions with little chance to re-pay? They weren't gifts, right?

A lawsuit, or more precisely The Threat of a suit, was back-pocket insurance.

I do not buy family history was unknown to the boys until 1999.

Somewhere, between 1988 when Stan Garden gatewayed a connection of the boys to Barry, and 1999, when tap-turning was going to happen, the boys had learned enough about Empire to be upset, but accepted whatever Barry gave, with a backup plan to threaten a suit, already loosely formulated.

 

[taylorss]

This thread has taken a turn toward the weird. Post after post by a single person with no stated connection to or knowledge of the crime ..... insisting with rising anger that the only theory appropriate for consideration is one that’s been long discarded by everyone who does have knowledge of the crime ..... a theory that was never put forth as anything more than an initial lead anyway ..... a theory that currently has support only from one single source, KW, who doesn’t have any legitimate basis for knowledge of the crime .... and a theory that is rendered impossible by basic logic.

If the architect from that last meeting was found, surely he’d confirm what every media source has reported - HS went home after the meeting (“before 5”) and BS stayed at the office (until sometime between 6:30 and 8:30).

Given that evidence shows the attack began when HS entered the home - and given that BS didn’t get home until 1.5-3.5 hours after her - BARRY WAS NOT PRESENT WHEN HONEY WAS ATTACKED. THEREFORE BARRY IS NOT THE PERSON WHO ATTACKED HONEY.

What about that is so hard to understand?

Why does this conversation continue to be dominated & derailed by the agenda of an unsupported and long-abandoned theory that is logically impossible?

If the bizarre idea at work is to push BS as perp to prevent discussion of the identity of the actual perp ... ??...... I probably don’t need to point out that this isn’t the place for that. LE are conducting the investigation, not posters here. And LE are capable of basic logic - they understand that [HS attacked in home] + [BS located outside of home] = BS not HS’s attacker.


Source for times they went home:
“Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood.

Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say.”
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

 

[Lexiintoronto]

L


---

He didn't throw anything away. The tap was going to be turned off, though.

I think there's reason to believe the boys, some if not all, had a plan to file a suit all along, and the tap-turning greenlighted the suit.

Why sign on to accept promissory notes totalling thousands and then millions with little chance to re-pay? They weren't gifts, right?

A lawsuit, or more precisely The Threat of a suit, was back-pocket insurance.

I do not buy family history was unknown to the boys until 1999.

Somewhere, between 1988 when Stan Garden gatewayed a connection of the boys to Barry, and 1999, when tap-turning was going to happen, the boys had learned enough about Empire to be upset, but accepted whatever Barry gave, with a backup plan to threaten a suit, already loosely formulated.

KW said he met with HS and BS in their kitchen (not at the home where they were killed, their home previous to that).

KW said HS began to question the amount of money BS was giving him (‘lending’).

That’s one of few things I believe he has said to be true. HS wisely may have been the beginning of the end of ‘bank Sherman’.

That might also explain KW’s vitriol towards her.

 

[Tortoise]

You are going to sit here and tell me that polygraphs are 100% accurate? Because they are not.

The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious.

In that case best not bring up the one he allegedly passed after repeated attempts.

I don't need a polygraph to tell me the story was a complete and utter fabrication, common sense tells me that. I just want to know why, and the timing doesn't look good. It seems a lot of people had a reason to be upset with Barry, and it makes no sense for anyone hearing of their deaths to immediately think that only Honey's death was a murder, especially on the back of a fabricated story. It also makes no sense to cling on to the murder suicide narrative, as if there is something to lose by accepting it was double murder.

MOO

 

[William_60]

KW said he met with HS and BS in their kitchen (not at the home where they were killed, their home previous to that).

KW said HS began to question the amount of money BS was giving him (‘lending’).

That’s one of few things I believe he has said to be true. HS wisely may have been the beginning of the end of ‘bank Sherman’.

That might also explain KW’s vitriol towards her.

Exactly my thinking.

That tap was not going to run forever; initially designed to springboard successful startups, she saw this component had brought very mixed results.

 

[William_60]

Surprisingly I agree not a lot of hugging happening, even though as a general population we Canadians sure appear to cherish our meds and at an affordable price too.

So I read a few posts back that someone from Big Pharma said industry people hated Little Pharma Barry.

Complete shock almost set in. Can't they all just get along?

 

[JDG]

L


---

He didn't throw anything away. The tap was going to be turned off, though.

I think there's reason to believe the boys, some if not all, had a plan to file a suit all along, and the tap-turning greenlighted the suit.

Why sign on to accept promissory notes totalling thousands and then millions with little chance to re-pay? They weren't gifts, right?

A lawsuit, or more precisely The Threat of a suit, was back-pocket insurance.

I do not buy family history was unknown to the boys until 1999.

Somewhere, between 1988 when Stan Garden gatewayed a connection of the boys to Barry, and 1999, when tap-turning was going to happen, the boys had learned enough about Empire to be upset, but accepted whatever Barry gave, with a backup plan to threaten a suit, already loosely formulated.

Can I just point out that the 'boys' were no longer boys but MEN at this point?

AFAIK, BS was not about to 'turn off the tap' until someone suggested that BS had possibly brought about the death of Louis Winter, then bought the company to steal away the MENS rights.

That's when he stopped providing, as would most people.

Mr. Winter died of natural causes, be it an aneurysm or heart attack.

The Winters MEN decided to sue BS, not boys.

 

[andreww]

What evidence would that be?? Do we have access to 'evidence'???
Don't think so.

No but TPS does, and what did they say? Seeking no suspects and no danger to the public.

 

[JDG]

No but TPS does, and what did they say? Seeking no suspects and no danger to the public.

TPS stated that both Shermans were 'targeted murders'.

 

[deugirtni]

andreww said: ↑
I read a piece about him yesterday and a quote from a colleague stated that Barry would spend $3 million dollars to get out of paying someone $150,000. He's not the kind of guy you want to piss off.

rsbm

Andreww, could you please start providing links for your facts? Below is the actual quote that you misquoted, which has an entirely different context. TIA

“Barry was a prick, if he needed you to pay $150,000 he wouldn’t hesitate to spend $3 million in court. It was all about winning for him,” Robinson said.

SHERMAN MURDERS: Did organized crime kill billionaire?

This is a very good point. It IS noticed how andreww appears to want to portray BS in the worst possible light, by skewing the information to instead read that he was a cheap basta that, even though he had *billions* of dollars, wanted to just rip people off for even lowly amounts of $150,000... so much was his desire to rip people off, that he was willing to pay millions just to get out of paying his due debts.

In fact the information andreww is referencing says the exact opposite - that BS was willing to spend millions to fight in the courts to make people honor their commitment(s) to him. The portrayal is deceitful thievery, while the fact is instead, righteousness, and sticking to one's principles. Quite a difference.

I would ask why such effort is being spent to try to cast BS in such negative (and false) light?

 

[deugirtni]

1&2&3 said: ↑
.... I didn’t even know they had surrogates at the time the Sherman’s were having children.

No you didn't. The media would prefer to paint them as the perfect couple.

What is it about participating in surrogate reproduction which paints the couple as less than perfect?

 

[WINDSOR]

This thread has taken a turn toward the weird. Post after post by a single person with no stated connection to or knowledge of the crime ..... insisting with rising anger that the only theory appropriate for consideration is one that’s been long discarded by everyone who does have knowledge of the crime ..... a theory that was never put forth as anything more than an initial lead anyway ..... a theory that currently has support only from one single source, KW, who doesn’t have any legitimate basis for knowledge of the crime .... and a theory that is rendered impossible by basic logic.

If the architect from that last meeting was found, surely he’d confirm what every media source has reported - HS went home after the meeting (“before 5”) and BS stayed at the office (until sometime between 6:30 and 8:30).

Given that evidence shows the attack began when HS entered the home - and given that BS didn’t get home until 1.5-3.5 hours after her - BARRY WAS NOT PRESENT WHEN HONEY WAS ATTACKED. THEREFORE BARRY IS NOT THE PERSON WHO ATTACKED HONEY.

What about that is so hard to understand?

Why does this conversation continue to be dominated & derailed by the agenda of an unsupported and long-abandoned theory that is logically impossible?

If the bizarre idea at work is to push BS as perp to prevent discussion of the identity of the actual perp ... ??...... I probably don’t need to point out that this isn’t the place for that. LE are conducting the investigation, not posters here. And LE are capable of basic logic - they understand that [HS attacked in home] + [BS located outside of home] = BS not HS’s attacker.


Source for times they went home:
“Barry and Honey Sherman were both at Apotex headquarters late in the afternoon on Wednesday, Dec. 13. They had a meeting with architects from the firm designing their new home in Forest Hill, an upscale Toronto neighbourhood.

Honey left Apotex first, before 5 p.m. Barry, founder of the generic drug giant, left in the early evening. His last known email from his Apotex account was sent between 6:30 p.m. and 8:30 p.m., sources at Apotex say.”
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

Well stated, thank you

 

[dotr]

Toronto homicide squad to be overhauled under new leader after record-breaking year of killings

Published December 31, 2018 Updated 10 minutes ago
New Toronto police homicide squad leader revamping unit, calls 2019 ‘decision-making year’


In July, Idsinga became the acting head of the homicide squad and began planning his transformation of the team.

“We will have a lot of new faces and a lot of movement within the squad,” he says, noting six detectives have already been brought to help alleviate the workload of the unit’s 48 detectives."

Idsinga is also starting a video analysis unit to help ease the squad’s workload.

“The nature of homicide work in 2018 involves an awful lot of video surveillance,” he says. “To properly extract that video surveillance, to properly analyze that surveillance, to make it presentable for court, it’s a lot of work and is labour intensive.”


"Another big case that has dogged the squad is the unsolved late 2017 murders of billionaire couple Barry and Honey Sherman.

The family has blasted the force for numerous alleged errors and lapses, and hired its own team of former homicide detectives, Ontario’s former chief pathologist and forensic experts to perform a separate private probe. The family recently announced a $10-million reward for information that would solve the case and proposed a “public-private partnership” with police where the shadow team would work alongside the force.

Idsinga called the proposal “interesting” but said it would involve onerous restrictions. He welcomed any tips and information but wouldn’t go for a situation where police would have to share information with the family’s team."

 

[hudunit]

Craziest case ever...no sign of entry,no sign of struggle,no outside weapons used.Barry still had his glasses on .We need Inspector Poirot.