CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[bestill]

View attachment 162169
So, it does look like the 'robbery' was the cell phone, MOO.
"committed" or "attempted to commit robbery"..."in the course of that crime" OR "immediate flight" (right after), the death of Kelsey Berreth.

The additional robbery charge (proven with phone in Idaho) results in first degree murder by default. This gives them another avenue for conviction in case he tries to say a sudden argument caused her 'unintended death' (2nd degree or manslaughter).

BBM agree. If that's the case then he was the one at the house and most likely committed the murder. He wouldn't take her cell phone for any other reason would he? IMO

 

[Jupiter05]

I know the Feds have the Witness Protection Program where
the witness is given a whole new identity and location, but
what does the state do to protect witnesses prior to trial?

In the El Chapo trial I read that the identity of witnesses was
not given to defense atty's until the night before their trial
testimony. too many witnesses and judges had already been
murdered in this case in Mexico.

It all sounds so sinister, seedy, mysterious. I am really trusting of the DA at this point that they are protecting the evidence and investigation by these actions. At the presser, DA May said that the holidays have somewhat slowed down/delayed the investigation and they want all of the evidence buttoned up.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There were some things asked that I could not get to before the thread closed. If I miss anything, please just ask again! I'm home battling a head cold (yay NYE!) and a needy Chihuahua haha.

There is no need to NOT charge felony murder if they have solicitation too. Solicitation does not merge unless it turns into conspiracy. So you can have solicitation and murder, or you can have conspiracy and murder; you CANNOT have solicitation and conspiracy, or solicitation, conspiracy, and murder. Unless we start getting into multiple solicitees, so to speak, but I'll leave that until if/when we find out there were more people in fact involved.

If PF asked Bob (made up name) to commit murder and Bob agreed, a conspiracy charge might still come. At this point though, I'm thinking Bob did NOT agree because Bob would likely have been charged with murder by now. It's been 10 days since PF's arrest. So in this scenario, we have a solicitation charge for Bob being asked by PF, and then a murder charge for PF.

Yes, I have seen sealed arrest warrants for longer than 10 days. I know it seems like forever, but it's only been 10! It will eventually come.

Someone asked about him talking. I am personally of the opinion that he will not talk. He will take his chances at trial. I don't think we have a CW issue here where he did not want people to see and hear what he had done. Again, I could be wrong, but I do not think CW pled to avoid the DP. I think he pled to avoid trial. Something tells me PF will take this all the way, but hey, you never know.

Thanks for your response. I agree he will roll the dice on a trial. PF has proven to be more than capable of remaining silent in extreme circumstances already. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

No problem!

Solicitation does not require the person solicited agree to the crime. For example: John asks Bob to kill his wife. John explains how he wants this done, and even pulls out a gun for Bob to do it. Bob says he will think about it, but goes straight to the police. In this case, Bob is not culpable, because he never agreed to or intended to commit the murder. However, John obviously did and took the step (gun, money) to have it done; it wasn't just random babble about wanting his wife dead, over beers with a friend.

Conspiracy requires two or more people AGREEING to commit a crime, and then taking at least one step towards the commission of it. Both people are culpable here. John asks Bob to kill his wife. Bob agrees. John gives Bob a gun and some cash as a down payment. He draws a map of the house and they agree for Bob to show up at midnight on Tuesday to commit the crime. Bob drives to the house at 11:45 on the night in question, but a neighbor sees something shady and intervenes or calls the cops. Or, the murder does in fact happen. Either way, killing or not, the conspiracy has been completed upon the agreement and step towards it.

Got it! You explained that super clearly. Thanks.

I ♥ WS.

 

[PommyMommy]

This case is making my head hurt. When were the custody papers filed because they were filed BEFORE KB died. Who filed them and why?
IMHO, this very well was when KB realized who and what she was playing with in PF and perhaps his motive. He wouldn't be the first man to have a switch flipped on custody.
MOO, MOO

CPS took custody of the baby on the day PF was arrested and a hearing was scheduled that day, 12/21. There was no custody case prior to Kelsey's disappearance. More information in the last two threads.
MOO

 

[Love Never Fails]

This case is making my head hurt. When were the custody papers filed because they were filed BEFORE KB died. Who filed them and why?
IMHO, this very well was when KB realized who and what she was playing with in PF and perhaps his motive. He wouldn't be the first man to have a switch flipped on custody.
MOO, MOO

Custody papers were not filed before KB died. That was bad reporting.

 

[riolove77]

In your opinion, if the or one of the people solicited was cooperating with police, would that be a reason for no arrests/plea deals/etc.?

Depends on their level of involvement. I just don't believe that there is someone who physically committed or helped commit the murder who hasn't been charged yet.

 

[Marli61]

Kelsey Berreth's fiance arrested and charged with her murder

This is a pretty well done clip. Definitely worth listening too imo.

 

[Trudie]

I'm surprised if they know there was a solicitation for murder and others involved in her killing, why hasn't anyone else been arrested? Could it be because they can't locate the person?

Could it be deals are being worked out to determine what, if any, charges they might face?

 

[riolove77]

Can you clarify on the robbery part? TIA

He could theoretically be convicted of robbery and murder. I don't think they're going to charge him with robbery though. They have enough to put him away for life.

Edited to clarify: in order to get a conviction under the felony murder theory, they're going to have to show the robbery happened anyway; in other words, if they cannot prove that the robbery took place, they can't get a conviction under FM, since robbery is their underlying theory for the FM charge.

 

[PommyMommy]

Consumptive evidence?

What do you think it is? I’m interested to hear everyone’s guess.

I’m torn between a droplet of fluid/stain found on a floor or wall OR a cloth or towel used in clean up. I’m leaning more towards a most minute stain (saliva, vomit, blood splatter) that was missed during a “potential” wipe down.

It may also have come from his truck. ?
MOO

 

[enelram]

Colorado does have an official Witness Protection Program.
Sounds like a small budget so not sure how effective it is.
It was set up in 1995 and at that time 16 witnesses had been
killed prior to testifying at trials.

Report: State’s witness protection program is underused – The Denver Post

 

[Trudie]

Depends on their level of involvement. I just don't believe that there is someone who physically committed or helped commit the murder who hasn't been charged yet.

Hmmm. Could they be under charges with a future court date but not be incarcerated? Assuming they had little involvement. Maybe only a convo or a text?
But, I guess involvement had to be much deeper bc a convo or a text is not a crime.


(You will wish you had worked bf the day is over, sorry, feel better)

 

[Jupiter05]

I'm surprised if they know there was a solicitation for murder and others involved in her killing, why hasn't anyone else been arrested? Could it be because they can't locate the person?

Maybe they are working out a deal with one or all of the others involved. Immunity or reduced sentence in exchange for testimony.

 

[nwmouse]

No problem!

Solicitation does not require the person solicited agree to the crime. For example: John asks Bob to kill his wife. John explains how he wants this done, and even pulls out a gun for Bob to do it. Bob says he will think about it, but goes straight to the police. In this case, Bob is not culpable, because he never agreed to or intended to commit the murder. However, John obviously did and took the step (gun, money) to have it done; it wasn't just random babble about wanting his wife dead, over beers with a friend.

Conspiracy requires two or more people AGREEING to commit a crime, and then taking at least one step towards the commission of it. Both people are culpable here. John asks Bob to kill his wife. Bob agrees. John gives Bob a gun and some cash as a down payment. He draws a map of the house and they agree for Bob to show up at midnight on Tuesday to commit the crime. Bob drives to the house at 11:45 on the night in question, but a neighbor sees something shady and intervenes or calls the cops. Or, the murder does in fact happen. Either way, killing or not, the conspiracy has been completed upon the agreement and step towards it.

Thanks for explaining this - I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 3 counts of solicitation. Wow!
I wonder how long PF had planned to kill KB?

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I have a bad feeling there is more to this story than what appears on the surface. :-(

 

[The Farm]

Depends on their level of involvement. I just don't believe that there is someone who physically committed or helped commit the murder who hasn't been charged yet.

It really boggles the mind. If someone physically or helped perpetrate this why are they free as a bird in the sky is my question?
Makes no sense to me. The level of involvement must be under that.

 

[Mom24]

Colorado does have an official Witness Protection Program.
Sounds like a small budget so not sure how effective it is.
It was set up in 1995 and at that time 16 witnesses had been
killed prior to testifying at trials.

Report: State’s witness protection program is underused – The Denver Post

Perhaps the person they are trying to protect is in Idaho, or even more sticky it may be one of his family members. I think someone mentioned he has family members in LE, one of them may have found some evidence and is helping.

 

[Inthedetails]

Colorado does have an official Witness Protection Program.
Sounds like a small budget so not sure how effective it is.
It was set up in 1995 and at that time 16 witnesses had been
killed prior to testifying at trials.

Report: State’s witness protection program is underused – The Denver Post

Why would witnesses feel so threatened if PF is behind bars? Because he can order another hit? Because people he know will intimidate and retaliate? Because he might not be in jail long and will go after them himself?

I'm not really seeing why a witness in this particular case would need to go into a protection program. I can totally understand a witness going into voluntary seclusion to avoid the press and gossip...but to go into an official police protection program? Is PF that powerful? IDK about that.

JMOpinion

 

[Oregon]

If the reason to protect the identity of the witness/solicitee(s) is to protect them from someone else taking things into their own hands, why would the DA ask that PFs attorney not be alllowed to discuss it with him?

It maybe that LE has not yet been able to locate the people they need to talk to. Releasing the documents may give heads up to those who trying to stay under the radar.