CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[Trudie]

It gets tricky.

For example if I had a situation like this, and John had made three separate installments of payments for the one agreed upon solitication, I would charge it as one ongoing crime.

If he approached three different people, or one person three times because they backed out the first two times, etc. then yes, I would likely charge three.

Yes to your second question.

My turn!

If a rodeo friend hauled K out of town in a horse trailer, disposed of her & the phone....how much trouble is he in, if he turned himself in? Idk if this occurred, obviously, but, if she left the area, I would guess she was in a trailer, loaded with horses.
Even if a driver is speeding or appears under the influence, MOST cops won’t stop them, IMO. They simply don’t want to deal with animals (in event of an arrest). It monopolizes their time. Tysm! (I feel like I have you on retainer)

 

[Trudie]

Do hitmen clean up after they commit murder, and dispose of the body?
If PF is capable of cleaning up, disposing the body, he would also be able to commit the murder, I would think.
His dump items probably have evidence of this.
MOO.

I thought his dump trip a hoax. Cat & mouse with LE. JMO

 

[?mysterian?]

I’ve been lurking on here after the Watts case and now this one... I live about an hour away from where PF/ KB were, but think prices are about the same. I pay $60 for a barefoot trim on each of my horses. That takes a farrier about 20 min and I haven’t seen prices cheaper than $50. For shoes, it would be $80-$120 per horse depending on the farrier, shoes, and if they were only going on fronts or all fours.

Like you - I auto book, but on an 8 week schedule.

Who knows how booked up PF was though or how much of his livelihood actually came from farrier work... I tried searching his posts on local horse / livestock FB groups, and only found a couple where he was selling horses a couple years ago, and looking for dairy calves last year. No advertising of farrier services. Maybe just the groups I was looking in, though.

Welcome to Websleuths, peach3s!

Thanks for your information on farriers in PF's general area. Do most farriers have to travel long distances? Do most farriers advertise, or do they get work by referrals/word-of-mouth? Thanks in advance!

 

[Trudie]

Thank you japsermac!

The fbi has unlimited resources & can get things done FAST, imo.

 

[MsBetsy]

I didn’t know for certain if they agreed to meet at the Store? Does anyone really know? I thought perhaps she went for baby food to send with him. He would then know she was away from home & cd have let someone in. Then went to the store to pick up the child, driving it to his mom, then back to K’s. Once my battery is charged, I’ll compute the time, her at Safeway, his drive to the ranch, back to her house & see if it conincides with the neighbors sighting. Just for my own curiosity.

I haven't heard any verification that they met at the store. I think it was first reported that Kelsey went to his house, but then was stated here by Kelseys aunt that he went to her house to pick the baby up. I think its been reported that way too in several sources.
But if he wanted to know if she was home or not, all he had to do was drive by or call.
We don't know if he drove the baby back to his mom's. Maybe he did, we just have no way of knowing. But if he did go to Safeway, I would think LE must know about it. Imo

 

[v0x]

If the defense can’t test a piece of evidence, can it still be used against them? Are they allowed to test every bit of evidence in every case? Or just on appeal? Seems like trials would never end...

My understanding is that with consumptive tests, the defense has an opportunity to have their own experts witness the test.

 

[tmar]

Boy, I sure would have loved being a fly on the wall at the Frazee household the day it was announced Kelsey was missing. I have had the feeling all along that there were no warm and fuzzy feelings between KB and SF.<modsnipped against tos>
His motive: my opinion only -- KB may have told PF that she wanted to end the relationship and move near her family. PF wanted the baby to stay local. PF did not want to pay child support. Since he'd possibly made several solicitations for murder, it would appear to me that this had been a sore subject between them for a little while. I think he picked up the baby during the same hour he killed KB. I really don't think she had any kind of "inside information" on any kind of illegal dealings he had going on or anything like that.

My thoughts on why CB spoke of KB and PF's relationship as being solid: I believe it has to do with the investigation and perhaps LE asked her to keep a stiff upper lip so that PF would't be tipped off that they suspected him all along. That he may let his guard down and make some mistakes along the way.

As for them not naming any others in the case, I think that the person or persons PF solicited are being left unnamed until this goes to trial to prevent them from being harassed and/or questions by friends, family, reporters, etc. They've got to keep to the specifics or risk tainting the case. It's still quite possible that that person or persons could face some sort of charges, but that will likely be resolved separately.

I agree with your points.
Also to add, the solicitored folks names have not been named, as also may be harmed by others, before the trial.
MOO.

 

[GordianKnot]

I hope everyone here on this forum has a safe, happy New Year's Eve and that 2019 is a wonderful year full of promise and blessings!

It makes me sad and angry that KB will not see 2019 with us. I get the sense that she was a really decent person just trying to do right by her daughter and to be a positive contributing member of society.

 

[riolove77]

If the defense can’t test a piece of evidence, can it still be used against them? Are they allowed to test every bit of evidence in every case? Or just on appeal? Seems like trials would never end...

If the judge grants the motion for consumptive testing, the defense will have the opportunity to be present, should they so choose.

 

[LAHOLLA]

Finally caught up!

I don’t even know what to think at this point. I feel like when everything comes out there will be some real shockers.

I expected this to follow a more stereotypical pattern but solicitation? Robbery? Months of planning?

I’m struggling to wrap my head around all of it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The issue is also that there wouldn't be enough for the defense to test it as well.

The test procedure will likely be filmed and an expert/ representative of the defense allowed to attend. MOO

 

[riolove77]

My turn!

If a rodeo friend hauled K out of town in a horse trailer, disposed of her & the phone....how much trouble is he in, if he turned himself in? Idk if this occurred, obviously, but, if she left the area, I would guess she was in a trailer, loaded with horses.
Even if a driver is speeding or appears under the influence, MOST cops won’t stop them, IMO. They simply don’t want to deal with animals (in event of an arrest). It monopolizes their time. Tysm! (I feel like I have you on retainer)

Hahahahaha I guess we’re all sort of on WS retainer once we’re verified.

It’s hard to say. Def accessory after the fact, could also tack on a variety of charges related to tampering with a corpse or transferring evidence across state lines, etc. They could get some leniency depending on how helpful they’re being.

Definitely something of the sort is going on. I just don’t think the person who committed the physical act is out there still.

 

[Mom24]

The test procedure will likely be filmed and an expert/ representative of the defense allowed to attend. MOO

Just explaining why they have a hearing about it.

 

[skyedaze]

Possibly, but I'm thinking that IF there happened to be a new love interest in Twin Falls, Idaho, that the case started to break there, first. Not saying this individual would have anything to do with the actual murder, yet was able to fill in some blanks for LE to allow the investigation to take flight. No pun intended. It just bothers me so very much that SOMEONE KNEW that he wanted her dead and they did NOTHING to prevent it. Perhaps sealing the warrant is to protect this individual because the other guys are still out there, somewhere. At this point, we don't know if PF acted entirely alone. Further arrests may be possible. Maybe they are still trying to track someone down they consider a serious threat. PF is not a threat, unless, some unscrupulous individual passes notes from him to someone else, like what happened in the Dellen Millard case where LE discovered several letters he wrote to his little "helper" when they executed a search warrant at her parents home. To this day, they do not know WHO did that, his attorney or his mother. My guess is his mother, the enabler.

Maybe a person helping the investigation is a significant other of someone involved in the crime...and that person was not in a position to say anything at the time, or maybe didn't know until after the fact.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I don’t think the investigators know nearly as much as we’ve assumed they do. They file two separate murder charges, one for each theory - I’d think they’d have enough confidence in one to eliminate the other. At this point I don’t have a whole lot of confidence they can build a case to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt - if it even gets that far.

 

[Mom24]

Finally caught up!

I don’t even know what to think at this point. I feel like when everything comes out there will be some real shockers.

I expected this to follow a more stereotypical pattern but solicitation? Robbery? Months of planning?

I’m struggling to wrap my head around all of it.

Seems like they have talked to at least one person he solicited since they have dates of solicitation. It's hard to understand how someone could pre-plan the murder of someone, but then to plan it for months and pretend to be fine is very hard to wrap my head around.
I wonder when they initially postponed any forward movement on the wedding. What was it her mother said? They had planned to marry sooner, but the price of cattle dropped or some such thing. Wonder if that was around September.

 

[?mysterian?]

Thank you both! Much appreciated.

Peach3s, I wanted to establish his income potential for people unfamiliar with horses. Excellent info. He had unlimited income potential. Like any farrier, he prob went like crazy when he needed money. Then, eased off for a few weeks. That makes it hard to establish a clientele. I still believe tho, he had his regulars. None of us want to switch around, if we like our farrier. He could have actually been earning money w/o mom F or K knowing. All he had to do is say he had to run an errand or something, he could make a few hundred fast. MOO

I agree. A good, reliable farrier is priceless and often has to turn away work, in my neck of the woods, which is nowhere near PF. I'd love to know what PF's clients thought of him and his work, and what the veterinarians in the area thought about his work.

 

[gliving]

Mom24, it could be that others involved aren't being charged b/c they've offered to turn state's evidence if the DA gives them immunity, i.e., there may have been a deal struck. That would explain why the DA claimed the physical safety of potential witnesses would be jeopardized if the probable cause affidavit was unsealed.

If others are involved, I hope they aren't offered immunity if they give testimony against PF. Seems that would be a huge incentive for them to minimize their involvement and maximize PF's.
"Hey, I just waited out by the truck".

 

[Love Never Fails]

Hahahahaha I guess we’re all sort of on WS retainer once we’re verified.

It’s hard to say. Def accessory after the fact, could also tack on a variety of charges related to tampering with a corpse or transferring evidence across state lines, etc. They could get some leniency depending on how helpful they’re being.

Definitely something of the sort is going on. I just don’t think the person who committed the physical act is out there still.

Do people really have “friends”who would haul a dead mother of a baby out of town and dispose of her body? I really must be naive about people in general. Every one of these cases boggles my mind. I cannot understand PF or even his family member doing this...but a friend of his?!

I do hope he did this by himself!

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

I can't believe the interest in this case. KRDO, Colorado Springs local news is reporting the PF arrest to be the 7th most viewed news story of 2018. In comparison Chis Watts admitting killing his wife in Aug ranked # 9. It must be all you sleuths!

Number 7 Patrick Frazee arrested for murder after Kelsey Berreth's disappearance (Dec. 21)
We first broke the story when Patrick Frazee was taken away from his Florissant home in handcuffs -- the development came weeks after Frazee's fiancée was last seen in Woodland Park. While her body hasn't been found, Frazee faces multiple charges of murder and solicitation to commit murder.

2018's Top 10 most-viewed stories in Colorado Springs