CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

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Yes. Baby K was born in October 2017. Someone used a pregnancy calculator and determined a January 2017 conception date. It was reported that PF went to Washington and moved KB to Colorado in 2016, so she was not pregnant prior to living in Colorado.
MOO

It could even be as late as Early February 2017 honestly. Babies can be born after the due date and often are with first children. I got pregnant in the beginning of January 2017 and my son was born at the end of September.

ETA- he was also 5 days late, so had he been born “on time” or early, it would have been an even earlier in September.
 
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There was no determination by a court as to the child's custody, prior to this. PF had possession of his child and had automatic parental rights to make decisions about his child's care, education, health, etc., if he was on the birth certificate or otherwise signed a voluntary declaration of patnernity, until he was arrested and the state took the child into protective custody.

In a juvenile dependency case like this kids are taken away from parents/guardians and placed in state custody when there is evidence of abuse or neglect or a situation like this where the parents aren't able to care for the child.

In such a case, the court doesn't technically decide who gets "custody". They used the word in this case but it's not the same as a family law case. Instead, the court decides whether the child remains in state care while the parent takes measures to get back on track (or they decide to return the child to the parent quickly, when able), it decides who the child will live with while the case is pending (foster care or a relative or other person) and ultimately it decides (one year only in CO from what I saw), whether the child will be returned to the parent or freed for adoption.

That's it.

In the case of someone incarcerated for over a year but not yet found guilty, perhaps they could determine that there is no need to keep the case open if the incarcerated parent has made arrangements for the child's care and has asked that a guardianship case be started so that when the dependency court case closes, a third party can be granted custody while he is incarcerated.

I need to see what the state laws are like with regard to that. I mean being in jail obviously means the parent is unable to provide direct care for the child but let's say their kid was in boarding school, had a trust and relatives to care for her on holidays. Does the fact that the parents are incarcerated but not yet found guilty mean that the parental rights are severed after a year?

I don't know. I think in many states jailed parents can retain rights. Even those sentenced to prison.

There are things about the dependency case that interest me. It seems quick decisions were made to remove the baby from grandma and have the state step in.

It will be interesting to see what happens.
This discussion over parental rights of an imprisoned parent reminds me of Brad Cooper, who ultimately gave up parental rights in exchange for a lighter sentence. And his murdered wife’s family got their wish in then hearing him admit for the first time in court, a confession of his crime.

North Carolina man who killed wife swaps parental rights for lighter prison sentence - NY Daily News
 
@Colorado303, I think you have used the wrong intials in your post.
The first sentence should say, KB (Kelsey Berreth), not SW (which is ShanannWatts).

In the dialog, it should be PF (Patrick Frazee) not (SF (Sheila Frazee).
All of us still can't forget the Watts case (especially those who knew them like you). We can't help but compare the 2 cases.

Thanks for joining this KB forum. We appreciate all of the CO posters and farmers, ranchers, horse + rodeo people from other states who share their experience about that life, psychological makeup of people in that world. (ie. @Trudie and the Farm Lady with the steeplechase horse avatar.

I value seeing the photographs taken by CO locals and reading the CO posters (ie @iloveco @retiredrickyinCO.

Thanks also to the attorneys contributing.

I feel like I'm giving an Academy Award speech, but thanks also to @PommyMommy @Gardner1850 @TippyLynn) for compiling the big information lists for all of us who can't go through all of the posts.

Thanks to the overseas posters Australia and UK, German) for being posting in their timezones, so I have someone to sleuth with in RT.

Thank you everyone, for trying to help find justice for KB, her baby girl and family.

I feel bad for my earliest post, where I crisicized KB's mom in that first interview that I saw. I now have seen her statement in the first press conference w/ the DA and LE which came before the TV interview. She obviously was very distraught and in a state of schock.

You all were right that in the later TV interview, she was trying to hold back info and do everything in her power to get Kaylee to safety.

IMO
Actually, I did mean SW. Point being anyone aware of the Watts case would know that leaving SW’s purse and phone in the house was a big nail in CW’s coffin. You are absolutely right the SF’s should have been PFs. Since thread is closed I can’t edit but I reported it to mods bopimg they will change it for me. Thamks for pointing that out.
 
Has this been posted? A friend of PF says that PF and KB broke up New Years Day 2018? Also said the only contact PF had with KB was over their daughter.

Murder charges filed against man in case of missing Colorado mom
Yes, another man who worked with PF also said the only contact they had was as co-parents. I think his name was Cline. He was the one who said PF often brought the child to work and his wife took care of her.
 
Who knows what lies PF may have told his family about Kelsey’s family. It’s plausable the mother, father and/or sister honestly believe she would be better off with them. If so, I think they are wrong but don’t think it means their motives are selfish.
This is what I truly suspect. I curious at what point they will see all the evidence piling up and realize all the lies.
 
There is no such thing as "full custody". Where the child is placed in a dependency case there's always a temporary decision until and unless parental rights are terminated. In Colorado, the parent typically has one year to get their stuff together and present termination of their rights.

Lol, I guess I’m thinking of “sole” custody.
Do we know if there is a formal agreement between K & P & the certificate of birth, if he’s listed, etc? I’ve not seen such docs’, but don’t have time to read every post. Tysm
 
Yes. Baby K was born in October 2017. Someone used a pregnancy calculator and determined a January 2017 conception date. It was reported that PF went to Washington and moved KB to Colorado in 2016, so she was not pregnant prior to living in Colorado.
MOO

Both my kids are October babies conceived through IVF so I can confirm conception took place in January or early Feb at the latest;)

ETA - I mentioned IVF because you know with certainty when conception is in that case
 
I am a lawyer and I can tell you that the CBI and FBI don't present a weak case to the DA. And the DA wouldn't file such a case, especially with no body.

They have to have powerful evidence in order to file in a no body case. Understand that the district attorney is an elected position. So they're careful with how they do things. These aren't light decisions. If they make a stupid mistake and charge with a weak case, that can mean the end of their career.

There is a process to giving evidence to the defense. That's right. It's not just handed to a defendant in jail. But it is given to the defense counsel and they have already received the arrest affidavit by now, which contains probable cause evidence and a packet of the discovery that is available to be released. Much is still being tested or waiting to be tested and other probably hasn't been put together yet.

Yes, there are often problems with the defense getting evidence in a timely manner but they will ultimately get it all.

Everything the state has is going to be handed over.

This isn't a game whereby the state makes up charges and throws everything at the wall to see what sticks. Cases in which an innocent man is charged and convicted are rare, with the exception of faulty eye-witness, mistaken identity cases where they blame the wrong person. And usually those are cases where the suspect is black.

This case doesn't have to do with a witness identifying a guy the police found walking near the scene of a crime. Or who shared the same name as a suspect. Or looked similar. Or whatever.

It's about two weeks at minimum of dedicated police work by top notch state and federal agencies who have incredible technological resources at their hands.
TYVM G!

ITA, LE and DA are not stupid nor is the Judge.
 
I doubt that. I think they love little K. (I also wish they'd back off).

jmo

My gut is that the baby is a possession. A prize.

This guy likely murdered over the desire not to share custody. And he's lived alone with his mom for 20 years, 10 as an adult. Never moving out. Not moving in with his fiancée. Who has his child.

It's all weird to me and matches with patterns of enmeshement, enabling and dysfunction that we too often see in the families of origin of many of these types of pre-meditated murderers.

If he had exteme possessory feelings about his child that led him to murder, based on his living situation I suspect that attitude came from dysfunctional familial relationships that predated the birth of his family.

I have no proof and perhaps that's an unfair assumption. But it's based on watching theses cases for so many years and being in family law for 17 years.
 
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Who knows what lies PF may have told his family about Kelsey’s family. It’s plausable the mother, father and/or sister honestly believe she would be better off with them. If so, I think they are wrong but don’t think it means their motives are selfish.

Idk a thing about either family. Idk how any of us (here) might even be able to determine the “best” home for the baby. Our hearts want her to be with K’s family. MOO
 
Actually, I did mean SW. Point being anyone aware of the Watts case would know that leaving SW’s purse and phone in the house was a big nail in CW’s coffin. You are absolutely right the SF’s should have been PFs. Since thread is closed I can’t edit but I reported it to mods bopimg they will change it for me. Thamks for pointing that out.
I knew what you meant, but I didn't even notice the initials being wrong!
Yes, it does seem like many things he did were the opposite of what CW did, or said. Or didn't say.
 
So you have had experience with a case in which the defense attorney was given an arrest affidavit, but forbidden by the court to share it with his client?
It WILL be shared. There is a hearing on it tomorrow. Where did you hear that the defense was forbidden by the court to share? It may not have happened yet, but most likely the court will rule that it happens tomorrow. Let's not twist things up. IMO
 
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