CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[Mom24]

sorry, another question, but if PF terminates his parental rights, how does that impact the other Frazee family?

 

[Trudie]

Custody at this time is being controlled by the State of Colorado. The child is being entrusted to the maternal grandparents (mother) through the court system. This was not a formal marriage with implied shared custody. This by all appearances appears to be an informal arrangement. Custody is being determined at some point and slowly working its way through hearings. The mother has to be declared legally deceased, etc. The father's rights (such as they are) have been taken away as he has no rights (he is under state control and considered a risk to society and has no bond.) The state has laid out charges of premeditated murder of an one hundred and ten-pound unarmed female (yes, he is assumed innocent and that is what the free cell is for.) This could change but he would have severe conditions of which would probably exclude access to small children and limited freedom one would hope (just being frankly honest.) I would not think he will be freed any time soon based on a minimum of five felony counts and he has not volunteered where the mother of the child is located.

No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

 

[gitana1]

What I’ve found, isn’t conclusive. I’m still looking.....
Thus far, it looks to me that someone has to petition the court to terminate rights. Correct? The court would not terminate automatically, due to a felony conviction.
Also, if the sentenced party has numbers rather than LWOP or DP, might play a part. In this case, even if he got LWOP, if his family had custody, he’d still enjoy visitation.

MOO MOO

What I'm trying to figure out is what happens with incarcerated parents and the dependency court timeline when a parent is incarcerated.

In any juvenile dependency case like this one, parental rights will be terminated if the parent can't do what the court needs them to do to reunify. In CO it is one year that the parent has before termination. That is so kids don't languish in the system indefinitely.

I am not sure when the clock starts.

I wonder if that is different in the case of incarcerated parents. And if so, how is it different?

Do they extend the time if there's been no conviction yet? Does a conviction resulting in a sentence of over a year that makes it impossible for the parent to care for the child, does that result in a termination of parental rights or do they need something more?

 

[v0x]

This may be a really dumb question (it wouldn't be my first) - but wasn't PF told not to have contact with any witnesses, with the exception of his family? If the arrest affidavit was sealed from even him, how would the defense know who he was not allowed to have contact with? (Sorry if that is really dumb question to ask, obvious, or has already been clarified. When I had initially read this, I didn't realize that PF or his public defender didn't have access to the arrest affidavit. I thought it was just sealed from the media and public.)

"The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family."

quoted from:
Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

I would imagine the list of ppl he’s not allowed to contact was provided to the jail.

 

[PrairieWind]

No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

As far as we know PF and KB had not court ordered custody arrangement. As such, they both had joint legal custody as mother and father. KB's parents didn't initiate the state taking the child. That happened because Mom is missing and Dad was being arrested. This is not an unusual occurrence (unfortunately). PF has not lost any parental rights at this time, other than he is incarcerated and is incapable of taking care of the child.

 

[gitana1]

No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

They had no formal agreement. There is no hint of court proceedings prior to KB's disappearance.

His rights had not been close to terminated. That's a long process that lasts about a year. The state files the dependency court petition. Not relatives.

The child was taken into protective custody because mom is presumed dead and dad was arrested and cannot provide care.

Private parties cannot initiate custody petitions to have a child made the ward of a state. Ever.

 

[gitana1]

As far as we know PF and KB had not court ordered custody arrangement. As such, they both had joint legal custody as mother and father. KB's parents didn't initiate the state taking the child. That happened because Mom is missing and Dad was being arrested. This is not an unusual occurrence (unfortunately). PF has not lost any parental rights at this time, other than he is incarcerated and is incapable of taking care of the child.

Wow. Incredible jinx!!!!

 

[Trudie]

What I'm trying to figure out is what happens with incarcerated parents and the dependency court timeline when a parent is incarcerated.

In any juvenile dependency case like this one, parental rights will be terminated if the parent can't do what the court needs them to do to reunify. In CO it is one year that the parent has before termination. That is so kids don't languish in the system indefinitely.

I am not sure when the clock starts.

I wonder if that is different in the case of incarcerated parents. And if so, how is it different?

Do they extend the time if there's been no conviction yet? Does a conviction resulting in a sentence of over a year that makes it impossible for the parent to care for the child, does that result in a termination of parental rights or do they need something more?

I found this. Scroll mid way, to CO. It seems if a parent injures/kills a sibling, termination is mandated but nothing about the other parent. Unless I missed it. I have 3% power, lol. Gotta charge.

 

[gitana1]

This may be a really dumb question (it wouldn't be my first) - but wasn't PF told not to have contact with any witnesses, with the exception of his family? If the arrest affidavit was sealed from even him, how would the defense know who he was not allowed to have contact with? (Sorry if that is really dumb question to ask, obvious, or has already been clarified. When I had initially read this, I didn't realize that PF or his public defender didn't have access to the arrest affidavit. I thought it was just sealed from the media and public.)

"The judge granted the prosecution's request that Frazee have no contact with any witness or anyone else named in the sealed arrest affidavit, with the exception of his family."

quoted from:
Kelsey Berreth: Patrick Frazee, the fiancé of a missing mom in Colorado, is arrested and booked in her murder - CNN

Great question.

 

[gliving]

Twin Falls news outlet:
Reports: Twin Falls nurse suspected of disposing missing Colorado woman's cellphone

"ABC's Clayton Sandell reported that the Twin Falls woman has known Frazee for years and that the two worked together for a time in Colorado."

"The Times-News has received multiple anonymous tips that the case involves a 32-year-old registered nurse at St. Luke's Magic Valley Medical Center whose Facebook account was recently closed.

St. Luke's spokeswoman Michelle Bartlome confirmed that law enforcement has contacted the hospital. Bartlome, however, said she "wasn't in a position to disclose" which agency made contact."

 

[gitana1]

I found this. Scroll mid way, to CO. It seems if a parent injures/kills a sibling, termination is mandated but nothing about the other parent. Unless I missed it. I have 3% power, lol. Gotta charge.

Wow. That's interesting!

 

[otto]

Whoa. That's interesting. That suggest to me there's an inkling that family could be involved in the criminal case.

And the longer the Berreths retain custody the harder it will be to change that.

Isn't that a bit of a leap?
How do you arrive at that idea?

 

[The Saint]

Do you have a link and a timestamp? Not doubting you, but I would like to see it. The Denver Post article at one point made it seem like the attorney had not seen it yet.

I watched it livestream.
Discussion starts about the sealed arrest warrant. The female DA addresses the judge.17:53
Judge: 20:22
Judge orders that the arrest warrant be Suppressed, meaning that PF's
Defense attorney can see it. The DA does not object. Friday's hearing at 1:30 pm is about whether the arrest warrant should be unsealed.

I think that the talk of only the defense atty being able to see it and not share it with PF must have occured earlier than my time notations above.

Here is the video of the arraignment hearing:

 

[gitana1]

Isn't that a bit of a leap?
How do you arrive at that idea?

Because what other reason would evidence in the murder case of the father have any bearing on what family is given temporary custody during the pendency of the dependency case?

ETA: I re-read the quote. If they are saying that they need the discovery before making further decisions regarding PF's parental rights and capacity, then that would not indicate anything about his family. It depends on what they meant. I would need to know more.

 

[Trudie]

They had no formal agreement. There is no hint of court proceedings prior to KB's disappearance.

His rights had not been close to terminated. That's a long process that lasts about a year. The state files the dependency court petition. Not relatives.

The child was taken into protective custody because mom is presumed dead and dad was arrested and cannot provide care.

Private parties cannot initiate custody petitions to have a child made the ward of a state. Ever.

Ok, tysm. I meant, did CB initiate custody & that’s why the baby was taken, during Ps arrest? Have I not heard of cases where a parent is arrested and minor children are left in the home with an adult?
On another note, if P was still roaming, at large, & CB had petitioned for custody, where would the baby be?
Tysm!


MOO

 

[Emi]

Hon. Linda Billings-Vela isn't the only judge in the 4th District of Teller County, CO.

Could it be that she had to cover the custody case too, because other judges were away for the holidays?

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller County - Judges and Staff

I saw that she is the only one in this county and Division. Also likely they want the same judge to preside on both.

 

[Hopefullyhelpful]

I have a couple of questions about PF’s background if anyone happens to know, I’d appreciate the insight. I know that he raises and trains Herding dogs, is that the only true of dog & dog training he did? For instance, did he also raise and train hunting dogs? Also, we know his current occupation, but do we have any information about what he may have done in the past? TIA

 

[Trudie]

Termination of Parental Rights | Colorado Family Attorney

This mentions long term imprisonment.

 

[Jethro4WS]

IF PF is listed on the birth certificate there isn't likely to be a paternity test.

Yes. In Colorado, with unmarried parents there is also an Affidavit of Paternity that is also filled out where both the mother and father sign it indicating they both acknowledge who the father of the child is. Only then can the father's name be added to the birth certificate. This would actually happen in the hospital, as there is no fee charged at that time, in a large majority of these situations. If the Birth Certificate is filed without a father listed some sort of court action would have to take place to add a father's name to the birth certificate. That could be as simple as both parties filling out and filing the Affidavit of Paternity in an uncontested situation.

 

[otto]

Because what other reason would evidence in the murder case of the father have any bearing on what family is given temporary custody during the pendency of the dependency case?

ETA: I re-read the quote. If they are saying that they need the discovery before making further decisions regarding PF's parental rights and capacity, then that would not indicate anything about his family. It depends on what they meant. I would need to know more.

It sounds to me like the Judge wants more information and that will be obtained during discovery. At the same time, that doesn't really imply anything about criminal activity by other people.