CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

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missy1974 said:
I hope this link is okay to post...

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part One - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

It has the preliminary hearing transcripts from 2015, the link is to part 1, if you look on the right side, you will see the links to 2-5. I have not completely read it all and some I read quickly so will hopefully have some time to read it again before next week. I was looking for any mention of a knife, and I have still not been able to find it!

This past weeks testimony, we heard a lot about dates and who called who when, I notice that there is some talk about that in the preliminary hearing as well.

Here are a few things that stood out to me, from the testimony of Edward Bachman, a detective with the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Dept:

4 A Michael actually talked to his father, Patrick, who was
5 alerted of the missing family by Joseph's business partner,
6 Charles Chase Merritt.
7 Q Was that on February 8th of 2010?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Did Michael indicate to you the last time he had actually
10 spoken to Joseph was about February 4th of 2010?​

Wasn't it DK that called Patrick?

23 Q Did Michael tell you that he attempted to contact
24 Mr. Merritt after being alerted to the concerns by their father,
25 Patrick?
26 A Yes.
27 Q And how did, having not met Mr. Merritt before, how did
28 Michael contact the defendant?
36
1 A I believe Michael actually got a call from Merritt.
2 Merritt contacted him out of the blue and was trying to find
3 Joseph. Which prompted Mike to start looking into it, also.
​
From testimony this past week, the above is not true. Merritt contacted SB first.

11 Q (By Mr. Imes) Can you tell us, what did Michael tell you
12 transpired when he met with the defendant at Joseph Sr.'s,
13 residence on the 13th of February, 2010?
14 A So, on that date, it was a Saturday. They had checked
15 all around the house to see if they could find anyone inside --
16 or find any way inside. Michael said that Mr. Merritt located a
17 back window that was unsecured, unlocked. And told Michael
18 where he located the window. Michael ultimately wanted to get
19 inside to see if anyone was inside, or try to find any type of
20 contact information for Joseph, Sr., and Summer. So, he opened
21 the window and ended up climbing inside.
22 Q Did the defendant go in?
23 A No.
24 Q Did he, Michael, indicate if there was a reason why the
25 defendant didn't go in?
26 A He said because Mr. Merritt had a criminal past --
27 MR. TERRELL: Objection. Irrelevant, your Honor.
28 THE COURT: Sustained.​

So here is where Mike says CM didn't go it. This is information obtained in 2013. But then right afterwards, the officer says this:

13 Q What did Michael indicate to you he did when he did enter
14 the Joseph, Sr., family home?
15 A He said that he ended up, I believe, going around to the
16 front door. He opened the front door, and Mr. Merritt came
17 inside with him. Michael started looking around the house to
18 see if he could find any type of contact information.
19 Michael knew that Summer's family, or Summer's mom lived
20 in Big Bear, so he was trying to find any kind of contact phone
21 numbers or information he could to try and track down where the
22 family was at. He still believed that the family had just gone
23 on vacation.
24 Q Did Michael indicate to you that he observed what he
25 thought was unusual behavior by the defendant while in the house
26 on February 13th?
27 A Yes.
28 Q What was that behavior he observed?
39
1 A Just that he didn't want to walk around the house. He
2 wanted to basically stay sequestered in the lower portion while
3 Michael was looking around.​

So he did go in! lol I had to re-read this a few times because even this past week, the prosecution had Mike testify and they went into great detail to show that CM did NOT go into the house that day.

The above is just from part 1... I read more interesting things which I will share as I keep reading :)

I understand that SBSD didn't come into this until the bodies were found; however, it doesn't appear to me that they used early reports to base things off of and instead used Mike's 2013 recollection. For example, Mike saying CM didn't go in the house on the 13th. It was shown in testimony this week that Mike in his first interview on Feb 15/10 said that CM DID go into the house and that Mike let him in through the sliding glass doors. I don't know if this shows "confirmation bias" with the SBSD, which is what CM's defense is saying, or if it shows "confirmation bias" on Mike's part? It was almost 4 years after they went missing, I am almost sure that the McStay's had their own theories about what happened and who could have done it by this time. IMO I don't know if it will make a difference with the jury, but reading the above stood out to me only because of the testimony we heard this week and I thought I would share :)
Click to expand...
Thanks to unprepared witnesses, bumbling cops, inept prosecutors and judging from what I've seen to this point in the trial I would say Merritt is going to walk.
 
Texas Red said:
Thanks to unprepared witnesses, bumbling cops, inept prosecutors and judging from what I've seen to this point in the trial I would say Merritt is going to walk.
Click to expand...

lol I am not ready to go there yet; however, I can see where the defense is going and I do understand a bit more about their OS and some of the questions they are asking witnesses now :)

I do find it strange that San Bernadino didn't seem to go back to original reports and only relied on the information given to them in 2013 instead of information in the file, or at least this is how it appears to me right now. For those of us that followed this in the very beginning and the years following, there was soooo much speculation about the involvement of different people, including family members. Mike was very involved in searching for the truth, I find it hard to believe that by 2013 he didn't "know" CM was most likely responsible and because of that, it makes his interviews in 2013 bias IMO
 
missy1974 said:
lol I am not ready to go there yet; however, I can see where the defense is going and I do understand a bit more about their OS and some of the questions they are asking witnesses now :)

I do find it strange that San Bernadino didn't seem to go back to original reports and only relied on the information given to them in 2013 instead of information in the file, or at least this is how it appears to me right now. For those of us that followed this in the very beginning and the years following, there was soooo much speculation about the involvement of different people, including family members. Mike was very involved in searching for the truth, I find it hard to believe that by 2013 he didn't "know" CM was most likely responsible and because of that, it makes his interviews in 2013 bias IMO
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly Mike Ramos the SB County DA at the time gave an interview soon after the arrest of CM. He proceeded to confidently boast about the overwhelming amount of evidence they had against CM, indicating much of which hadn't been disclosed to the public. From what I've seen so far I'm not impressed but maybe they're just slow starters.
 
dical99@gmail.com said:
For those of you who have been following this case for a while, has there been any evidence yet that you were unaware of prior to the beginning of the trial? For me, I did not know about the knife being found at the grave site, nor did I know about the unknown DNA found at the gravesites. Just wondering if anyone else has been surprised by anything so far :)
Click to expand...

I was not aware that Summer McStay may have been raped at knifepoint prior to being bludgeoned to death.
 
We still have many months to go so I hope the Prosecution have a lot more eggs in their basket.


The quick books is the MOST damning evidence but unfortunately that only proves theft not murder.

At the moment I still think Chase is guilty but DK due to his own past and his arrogance and stupidity makes the perfect scapegoat.

The knife at the grave site baffles me and is a curve ball and I’m assuming if it does exist it was kept a secret so whoever they arrested would only know about the knife if they was involved.

So a big question mark over it as if DK girlfriend knows about a weapon in the grave that was never public record then she was involved ( we know she wasn’t) or she knows somebody who was - DK.


I still wouldn’t be surprised if one of them guessed something had happened and took advantage of the situation.

They seemingly was in contract with Joey a lot due to the emails and PayPal and all the rest of it. So when Joey dropped off the grid it didn’t take a rocket scientist to know something was wrong. The problem is when you hire snakes don’t be surprised when they turn on you.
 
Missy said:
I did read something about the checks in the preliminary hearing transcripts... when I come across it again, I will share!
Click to expand...

This is from my timeline - it might help in finding stuff.

Friday, February 5
12:06pm – user added check to charles merritt for $4500 – memo line: Paul Mitchell, dated 2-5-10 per Prelim hearing page 111. Per Prelim hearing page 114 – check was cashed on 2-5-10 by Charles at Union bank. (Flurry of checks created, printed, deleted. A $4,500 check was CASHED at Union Bank. Metro Sheet Metal checks were written ($1650 & $250) and later delivered in person to Metro by CM. $2,350 check was printed and deposited in B of A. The checks on this date that were cashed/deposited appeared to have forged Joseph McStay signatures.)
12:12pm – user printed check written at 12:06pm; date changed 2-4-10;
12:19pm – user added metro sheet metal as vendor.
12:21pm – user added check to metro sheet for $1650 – memo line: “Misc. Manufactuer”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 113.
12:25pm – check written to Metro Sheet Metal for $250, backdated to 2-4-10 and printed.
12:29pm – user added check to charles merritt for $6505 – memo line: “Balance SA (1001)”, check backdated to 2-4-10. This check is printed.
12:33pm – another check written to Charles Merritt for $2350, backdated to 2-4-10. This check deposited at Bank of America by CM (page 114 Prelim hearing).
12:38pm – user deleted check written at 12:29pm – per Prelim hearing page 112.

Feb. 6 - Dan initiated a transfer of $2,000.00 from Joseph's Paypal account into his account.

February 8 –
2:20pm – QuickBooks activity – user added check to Charles Merritt for $6,500 memo line: “saudi arabia final”, check backdated to 2-4-10 per Prelim hearing page 115; check was printed and deleted and deposited into CM’s BofA account on the next day Feb. 9th.
2:44pm – user canceled QuickBooks online subscription.

Tuesday, February 9 –
8:06am – user again cancelled QuickBooks online subscription per Prelim hearing page 116. Per QuickBooks online customer service rep, Ryan Baker, Per Prelim hearing page 116 & 118 - this is the day someone used CM cell phone to call Quickbooks support and ask to delete account. The caller claimed to be JM, even though the cell phone number was that of CM. Caller wanted to transfer the account to anoher account and then once it was transferred and this subscription was canceled, he need to delete all of the accounts. The call lasted 107 minutes.
(Someone ordered a copy of Joseph’s Quickbooks accounting program four days after the disappearance and before they were reported missing.)

Feb. 9 - Someone transferred $2,000 from Joseph’s bank account into his PayPal account.

Feb. 9, 8:06am - Another attempt was made to cancel Quickbooks subscription. Not sure if this was by phone or online.

Wednesday, February 10 - In response to request from Joseph's business partner (Dan K.), San Diego County sheriff's deputy checks on family's welfare. No answer at door, no signs of foul play. The McStay mystery began with a call to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department on Feb. 10, 2010, six days after the family's last contact with friends and relatives. It was from Dan Kavanaugh, who ran the website for Joseph's business, Earth Inspired Products, which installs water fountains. He hadn't been able to reach Joseph for several days. The McStays occasionally had gone away for a weekend without telling anyone, but it was unusual for him to be out of touch for this long.

Thursday, February 18 – Echeck payment of $3,000.

Feb. 18 - Dan transferred another $2,000 from Joseph's Paypal account into his account. (Source: see pdf file (post #17) in link: Timeline:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ay-Family-TIMELINE-CASE-FACTS-*No-Discussion*)
 
Here is food for thought is it possible that DK & Chase worked together on this crime?

But one has been caught and the other one managed to get away Scot free.

Let’s be honest both seem capable of this I hate to say it.
 
Thanks Niner for the timeline.

Inevitable, I suppose, but still frustrating, that the Defence seem determined to paint the lack of forensic data as evidence which indicates CM's innocence. (Rather than the stroke of luck to him that it really was)
 
missy1974 said:
I hope this link is okay to post...

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part One - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

It has the preliminary hearing transcripts from 2015, the link is to part 1, if you look on the right side, you will see the links to 2-5. I have not completely read it all and some I read quickly so will hopefully have some time to read it again before next week. I was looking for any mention of a knife, and I have still not been able to find it!

This past weeks testimony, we heard a lot about dates and who called who when, I notice that there is some talk about that in the preliminary hearing as well.

Here are a few things that stood out to me, from the testimony of Edward Bachman, a detective with the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Dept:

4 A Michael actually talked to his father, Patrick, who was
5 alerted of the missing family by Joseph's business partner,
6 Charles Chase Merritt.
7 Q Was that on February 8th of 2010?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Did Michael indicate to you the last time he had actually
10 spoken to Joseph was about February 4th of 2010?​

Wasn't it DK that called Patrick?

23 Q Did Michael tell you that he attempted to contact
24 Mr. Merritt after being alerted to the concerns by their father,
25 Patrick?
26 A Yes.
27 Q And how did, having not met Mr. Merritt before, how did
28 Michael contact the defendant?
36
1 A I believe Michael actually got a call from Merritt.
2 Merritt contacted him out of the blue and was trying to find
3 Joseph. Which prompted Mike to start looking into it, also.
​
From testimony this past week, the above is not true. Merritt contacted SB first.

11 Q (By Mr. Imes) Can you tell us, what did Michael tell you
12 transpired when he met with the defendant at Joseph Sr.'s,
13 residence on the 13th of February, 2010?
14 A So, on that date, it was a Saturday. They had checked
15 all around the house to see if they could find anyone inside --
16 or find any way inside. Michael said that Mr. Merritt located a
17 back window that was unsecured, unlocked. And told Michael
18 where he located the window. Michael ultimately wanted to get
19 inside to see if anyone was inside, or try to find any type of
20 contact information for Joseph, Sr., and Summer. So, he opened
21 the window and ended up climbing inside.
22 Q Did the defendant go in?
23 A No.
24 Q Did he, Michael, indicate if there was a reason why the
25 defendant didn't go in?
26 A He said because Mr. Merritt had a criminal past --
27 MR. TERRELL: Objection. Irrelevant, your Honor.
28 THE COURT: Sustained.​

So here is where Mike says CM didn't go it. This is information obtained in 2013. But then right afterwards, the officer says this:

13 Q What did Michael indicate to you he did when he did enter
14 the Joseph, Sr., family home?
15 A He said that he ended up, I believe, going around to the
16 front door. He opened the front door, and Mr. Merritt came
17 inside with him. Michael started looking around the house to
18 see if he could find any type of contact information.
19 Michael knew that Summer's family, or Summer's mom lived
20 in Big Bear, so he was trying to find any kind of contact phone
21 numbers or information he could to try and track down where the
22 family was at. He still believed that the family had just gone
23 on vacation.
24 Q Did Michael indicate to you that he observed what he
25 thought was unusual behavior by the defendant while in the house
26 on February 13th?
27 A Yes.
28 Q What was that behavior he observed?
39
1 A Just that he didn't want to walk around the house. He
2 wanted to basically stay sequestered in the lower portion while
3 Michael was looking around.​

So he did go in! lol I had to re-read this a few times because even this past week, the prosecution had Mike testify and they went into great detail to show that CM did NOT go into the house that day.

The above is just from part 1... I read more interesting things which I will share as I keep reading :)

I understand that SBSD didn't come into this until the bodies were found; however, it doesn't appear to me that they used early reports to base things off of and instead used Mike's 2013 recollection. For example, Mike saying CM didn't go in the house on the 13th. It was shown in testimony this week that Mike in his first interview on Feb 15/10 said that CM DID go into the house and that Mike let him in through the sliding glass doors. I don't know if this shows "confirmation bias" with the SBSD, which is what CM's defense is saying, or if it shows "confirmation bias" on Mike's part? It was almost 4 years after they went missing, I am almost sure that the McStay's had their own theories about what happened and who could have done it by this time. IMO I don't know if it will make a difference with the jury, but reading the above stood out to me only because of the testimony we heard this week and I thought I would share :)
Click to expand...
Really couldn't this (what Michael said about CM going in the house) be cleared up by the actual records of the interview? I'm reading it that possibly the confusion is over whatever the wording of the actual question was, and it may have been 'who went in through the window', not whether CM went in the house at all.
 
asyousay said:
We still have many months to go so I hope the Prosecution have a lot more eggs in their basket.


The quick books is the MOST damning evidence but unfortunately that only proves theft not murder.

At the moment I still think Chase is guilty but DK due to his own past and his arrogance and stupidity makes the perfect scapegoat.

The knife at the grave site baffles me and is a curve ball and I’m assuming if it does exist it was kept a secret so whoever they arrested would only know about the knife if they was involved.

So a big question mark over it as if DK girlfriend knows about a weapon in the grave that was never public record then she was involved ( we know she wasn’t) or she knows somebody who was - DK.


I still wouldn’t be surprised if one of them guessed something had happened and took advantage of the situation.

They seemingly was in contract with Joey a lot due to the emails and PayPal and all the rest of it. So when Joey dropped off the grid it didn’t take a rocket scientist to know something was wrong. The problem is when you hire snakes don’t be surprised when they turn on you.
Click to expand...

I don’t understand why Chase hasn’t been charged with theft considering the facts of the prosecution’s case related to the QuickBooks and check writing.
 
Texas Red said:
Has anything been disclosed regarding the credibility of DK's ex-girlfriend?
Click to expand...

Good morning!

I know others may not find it suspicious at all that this woman just happened to come forward in the latter part of 2018 shortly before trial. However I find it highly suspicious.

If DK is so intelligent and diabolically crafty why would he confess before Merritt went on trial?

All these years he doesnt confess but now conveniently right before the trial he does while knowing all too well there would be a good possibilty Merritt would be the one convicted?

I dont think the state is as worried about this recent witness as some believe.

We know claims made in OS aren't evidence. Imo the state has long investigated and verified DKs alibi. That's just common sense and common practice.

I think the state has long known what the defense strategy was going to be with finger pointing done to SODDI which is common and was used consistently throughout Daron Wint's trial.

If I was a juror I would be highly suspicious of anyone who just came forward right before trial.

Something just doesnt make sense to me after so many have said they believe DK (although deceitful and nasty) but is highly intelligent.

Imo. He really cant be intelligent and be downright stupid as a rock at the same time imo.

Why would he confess to anything before Merritt went on trial knowing if he is convicted DK has gotten away with the murders?

Jmo
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Good morning!

I know others may not find it suspicious at all that this woman just happened to come forward in the latter part of 2018 shortly before trial. However I find it highly suspicious.

If DK is so intelligent and diabolically crafty why would he confess before Merritt went on trial?

All these years he doesnt confess but now conveniently right before the trial he does while knowing all too well there would be a good possibilty Merritt would be the one convicted?

I dont think the state is as worried about this recent witness as some believe.

We know claims made in OS aren't evidence. Imo the state has long investigated and verified DKs alibi. That's just common sense and common practice.

I think the state has long known what the defense strategy was going to be with finger pointing done to SODDI which is common and was used consistently throughout Daron Wint's trial.

If I was a juror I would be highly suspicious of anyone who just came forward right before trial.

Something just doesnt make sense to me after so many have said they believe DK (although deceitful and nasty) but is highly intelligent.

Imo. He really cant be intelligent and be downright stupid as a rock at the same time imo.

Why would he confess to anything before Merritt went on trial knowing if he is convicted DK has gotten away with the murders?

Jmo
Click to expand...


It’s been stated DK’s ex has credibility issues.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Good morning!

I know others may not find it suspicious at all that this woman just happened to come forward in the latter part of 2018 shortly before trial. However I find it highly suspicious.

If DK is so intelligent and diabolically crafty why would he confess before Merritt went on trial?

All these years he doesnt confess but now conveniently right before the trial he does while knowing all too well there would be a good possibilty Merritt would be the one convicted?

I dont think the state is as worried about this recent witness as some believe.

We know claims made in OS aren't evidence. Imo the state has long investigated and verified DKs alibi. That's just common sense and common practice.

I think the state has long known what the defense strategy was going to be with finger pointing done to SODDI which is common and was used consistently throughout Daron Wint's trial.

If I was a juror I would be highly suspicious of anyone who just came forward right before trial.

Something just doesnt make sense to me after so many have said they believe DK (although deceitful and nasty) but is highly intelligent.

Imo. He really cant be intelligent and be downright stupid as a rock at the same time imo.

Why would he confess to anything before Merritt went on trial knowing if he is convicted DK has gotten away with the murders?

Jmo
Click to expand...



Maybe he became arrogant as he thought he had gotten aaay with it?


Or he had a massive argument with his girlfriend and made threats to scare her and told her what he had done to the Mcstay?

Who knows at this stage but it’s intriguing to see what happens and too see if there is is any truth in the story.
 
My thoughts are DK was the tech guy. Wouldn't JM have had him do the QB's transfer from Web to Desktop? Obviously, CM had to lie to bank officials because he wasn't authorized to make the changes unless under the guise of being JM.
 
Bernina said:
My thoughts are DK was the tech guy. Wouldn't JM have had him do the QB's transfer from Web to Desktop? Obviously, CM had to lie to bank officials because he wasn't authorized to make the changes unless under the guise of being JM.
Click to expand...
You're right. Dan was the SEO (Search Engine Optimization) guy, who set up the website for EIP. I assume the job of "setting up" a business would include installing an accounting program like Quickbooks, and that any SEO would have at least a passing familiarity with that program. As Niner's notes up-thread show (thanks, Niner!), whoever it was that used Joey's Quickbooks that Feb. didn't mess around with figuring out the program. They just went in and used it. I have used Quickbooks, and while it is easy to use and understand, it isn't necessarily intuitive enough for a first-time user to just "get". IMO. It seems to me that whoever wrote those checks from Joey's account must have known what they were doing, and how to do it, and that there was a plan in place before they started. Could Merritt have known Quickbooks? Sure, but it doesn't really seem like his area of expertise, IMO.

If I remember correctly, one of Merritt's brothers has some technical skills, but I don't remember who.
 
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