TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[Paul B.]

Sorry. In a case with this many loose ends, it's easy to get frustrated. The hot weather here isn't help me stay together. I apologise.

 

[sunnynz]

Sorry. In a case with this many loose ends, it's easy to get frustrated. The hot weather here isn't help me stay together. I apologise.

I got some good advice from a mod recently which was to report any comment you think is misleading or against TOS and vent your frustrations there, rather than here on the board.

 

[FireOwl9]

Sorry. In a case with this many loose ends, it's easy to get frustrated. The hot weather here isn't help me stay together. I apologise.

That's alright . It's hot here down my place too lol. Just to clarify my original comment I meant that it's better to use less certain language and claims. Like 'xxxx could be him/her' would be okay. But we certainly don't want to turn our assumptions into facts without any solid evidence by saying 'definitely' or 'is' because it's not only embarrassing if they are incorrect but also not appropriate for a forum like WS.

 

[Jdart14]

Sorry. In a case with this many loose ends, it's easy to get frustrated. The hot weather here isn't help me stay together. I apologise.

It’s ok. We all get frustrated. Thanks for the solution @sunnynz. I think we all work on what we can and what the hot lead in front of us is at the time. I posted a while back a request for anyone with ideas or hopeful leads to share what we are all working on or that we come up with a “top 5” so to speak. There ARE a lot of loose ends and not a lot to go on. Even more reason to share ideas and work together on this case or any other. It’s all good here in Texas! Hope y’all have a great night !

 

[Jdart14]

That's alright . It's hot here down my place too lol. Just to clarify my original comment I meant that it's better to use less certain language and claims. Like 'xxxx could be him/her' would be okay. But we certainly don't want to turn our assumptions into facts without any solid evidence by saying 'definitely' or 'is' because it's not only embarrassing if they are incorrect but also not appropriate for a forum like WS.

Well said

 

[LucyOso]

Yeah, I agree. She's very close in many ways, but if you look at the post-mortem photos, you can see her very small chin.

After death the jaw muscle relax. The jaw is a hinge so typically it falls inwards and down. It can easily appear like a weak chin due to postural arrangement and lighting. Couple this with the obvious peri-orbital/facial swelling it could distort her proportions. That being said, does the young lady have a name in the year book? If not we can’t see if she’s a possible match.

 

[Alleykins]

After death the jaw muscle relax. The jaw is a hinge so typically it falls inwards and down. It can easily appear like a weak chin due to postural arrangement and lighting. Couple this with the obvious peri-orbital/facial swelling it could distort her proportions. That being said, does the young lady have a name in the year book? If not we can’t see if she’s a possible match.

Comparing Reet Jurvetson to her pm photo, I never would have guessed it was her, except for her eyes. Her face was much fuller, rounder in her photos than her recons. However, those were old photos of her when she was younger. She may have lost weight and her face thinned out before she died.
CarlK's reconstructions are usually closest, with sometimes only a slight variation in the shape of the face. His depiction of Linda Pagano is uncanny, considering he didn't have a mandible to work with. Even still, he was almost spot on with that, too. His work is amazing.

 

[LucyOso]

Comparing Reet Jurvetson to her pm photo, I never would have guessed it was her, except for her eyes. Her face was much fuller, rounder in her photos than her recons. However, those were old photos of her when she was younger. She may have lost weight and her face thinned out before she died.
CarlK's reconstructions are usually closest, with sometimes only a slight variation in the shape of the face. His depiction of Linda Pagano is uncanny, considering he didn't have a mandible to work with. Even still, he was almost spot on with that, too. His work is amazing.

Yes, his work is amazing. I agree

 

[LucyOso]

Considering the hour of day she was still trying to get to the prison to see a "friend", I wonder if the the friend she was trying to see was an employee, not an inmate. I'm not sure what the visiting hour rules were back then, but I don't know how likely she would be able to visit an inmate around the time she would have arrived. However, if it were an employee, she would likely be able to visit them as long as they were there working their shift. I wonder if detectives showed the picture of her to the staff or asked the staff if they had a visitor coming or if only the inmates were questioned.

I agree. We have mulled this for years. It is very possible she was meeting an employee. It is also quite possible she was pen pals with a prison as well. Or her father was in prison. The employee angle was explored by LE, but how could they verify back then?

 

[LucyOso]

View attachment 163867 View attachment 163865

This is going to make a great set of news for EVERYONE! Although Ms. Rodermund was likely NOT WCJD, we believe Angie Roca, (correct me if I typed her name wrong.) We compared the melanin sample of both women and their AB samples. Both were a match. If this is positive, we are very proud of this!

Maybe CarlK can look at the photos. It appears Angie’s front teeth overlap quiet a bit, not sure what Walkers teeth look like. Has anyone looked on ancestry or other sites to see if Angie has a footprint?

 

[RookieInvestigator]

If she was a ward of the state, that may explain why a missing report may not have been filed...If she ran away from the Rebekah House they may have filed a report of a missing runaway ...The victim's case possibly fell through the cracks....It's possible the runaway record still exists but it may depend on LE's record retention policy...

 

[cherrymeg]

If she was a ward of the state, that may explain why a missing report may not have been filed...If she ran away from the Rebekah House they may have filed a report of a missing runaway ...The victim's case possibly fell through the cracks....It's possible the runaway record still exists but it may depend on LE's record retention policy...

If she was 18 she could have been out of the system. If she didn't connect with family or have people in her life like a foster family that she was close to, it would be so easy for her to not be reported missing.

 

[Alleykins]

If she was 18 she could have been out of the system. If she didn't connect with family or have people in her life like a foster family that she was close to, it would be so easy for her to not be reported missing.

Something similar to this happened to Patricia Taylor. She was a ward of the state when she ran away from a girls' home, and it doesn't appear anyone contacted her family at that time to let them know, nor does it appear she was reported missing to the authorities. But who knows, this happened in 1981. What it looks like on the outside is DHHS noted her file she ran away, then closed out her file when she aged out of the system. It wasn't until decades later her family went looking for her, found out she was missing and reported it. Her sister has done a tremendous job trying to track her down.
So this scenario is not entirely out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[cherrymeg]

Could she have been 18? I know there are ways they give a person an age but could she have been 18? If she was taken from her family by CPS or DHS or if she became a ward of the state because her parents died and there was no one else to take her, she might not have been considered missing. Who would report it?
That is awful that Patricia Taylor could be marked as a runaway while a ward of state and then just forgotten about the minute she aged out. It's good her sister is trying to find her. This made me wonder if WCJD could have either ran away or aged out of the system maybe there was a relative she was looking for at the prison. If she had a father or another relative that had been there for more than a decade or even less, it's possible they wouldn't recognize her as a teenager or young woman. It was supposedly the max security prison so if it was a relative they possibly did something pretty bad. I doubt the state would go out of their way to keep an inmate informed. It's possible the person could have died in prison or been transferred or even released. This might be crazy.

 

[LucyOso]

This made me wonder if WCJD could have either ran away or aged out of the system maybe there was a relative she was looking for at the prison. If she had a father or another relative that had been there for more than a decade or even less, it's possible they wouldn't recognize her as a teenager or young woman. It was supposedly the max security prison so if it was a relative they possibly did something pretty bad. I doubt the state would go out of their way to keep an inmate informed. It's possible the person could have died in prison or been transferred or even released. This might be crazy.

Snipped. This is something I have thought about as well. A father in prison, or perhaps even he was once there and that’s the only information the mother had. Maybe she remarried and had other kids. I can see an arguement, like “Im the only parent you have, dads in prison” and a teen thinking the grass might be greener. Perhaps dad was no longer at that prison so when they asked, there was no recognition.

The same could happen if dad was a guard or employee. Never made the connection that it was his child. Maybe never knew about her or last saw her as an infant. And typically we deny or divert our thoughts. It wasn’t uncommon in those days for mom to get custody, remarry, and the bio dad had no rights or never saw their child again.

Even if she had a prison pen pal, they might not have acknowledged the situation if they discovered she might be a minor. Never heard of her...especially if they were a predator to begin with. Or a married prison guard. But, the fact she could be underage most likely limited acknowledgement if there was romantic involvement.

There is also the possibility that she did have a destination in mind, but only used the prison as a geographical reference point to get to her destination.

 

[cherrymeg]

Snipped. This is something I have thought about as well. A father in prison, or perhaps even he was once there and that’s the only information the mother had. Maybe she remarried and had other kids. I can see an arguement, like “Im the only parent you have, dads in prison” and a teen thinking the grass might be greener. Perhaps dad was no longer at that prison so when they asked, there was no recognition.

The same could happen if dad was a guard or employee. Never made the connection that it was his child. Maybe never knew about her or last saw her as an infant. And typically we deny or divert our thoughts. It wasn’t uncommon in those days for mom to get custody, remarry, and the bio dad had no rights or never saw their child again.

Even if she had a prison pen pal, they might not have acknowledged the situation if they discovered she might be a minor. Never heard of her...especially if they were a predator to begin with. Or a married prison guard. But, the fact she could be underage most likely limited acknowledgement if there was romantic involvement.

There is also the possibility that she did have a destination in mind, but only used the prison as a geographical reference point to get to her destination.

I was thinking prisoner if she was a ward of the state because her mom was deceased and she had no living relatives on that side of the family. If her parents weren't married the mom might have left him off the birth certificate but told her daughter his name and that he was in prison. She could have found a letter from him to her mom. WCJD could have been trying to find other relatives and he was the only link she had. I would think if she had a family her home life would have to be really awful to seek a father out in max prison. Maybe they sent her to Rebekah's Home or a similar facility. That would make you not trust the family you know.
If she was looking for a guard or other employee, you would hope she would call ahead. Unless, the man didn't know about her and she was scared to be rejected. He could have moved on so even if he knew he had a kid he wouldn't have been there to identify her. If she had family that knew her dad worked and possibly lived near the prison you would hope they would have reported her missing and if they heard about WCJD they would check to see if she was their missing child.

It couldn't have been easy for a teenager to get a prison pen pal, she would possibly have to have a relative or someone she knew inside at least at some point. I had a cousin who was locked up in Louisiana when I was 17, I received letters from his friends inside. I would think an inmate would also tell her the visiting hours if he invited her. I was a thousand miles away and they didn't seem to be getting out for awhile so it didn't bother me. I wonder what that prison's policy was on mail? Did they have someone reading and checking incoming letters? It was a max prison but still I'm guessing a lot of mail came in. Does anyone know what the visitation rules were?
And then again maybe it was just a landmark on her way somewhere else.
Sorry for the ramble.

 

[LucyOso]

Prison Pen Pals used to be run in most newspapers and periodicals like Mother Earth. It was pretty easy to find one during that time...

 

[daisy6441]

I was thinking prisoner if she was a ward of the state because her mom was deceased and she had no living relatives on that side of the family. If her parents weren't married the mom might have left him off the birth certificate but told her daughter his name and that he was in prison. She could have found a letter from him to her mom. WCJD could have been trying to find other relatives and he was the only link she had. I would think if she had a family her home life would have to be really awful to seek a father out in max prison. Maybe they sent her to Rebekah's Home or a similar facility. That would make you not trust the family you know.
If she was looking for a guard or other employee, you would hope she would call ahead. Unless, the man didn't know about her and she was scared to be rejected. He could have moved on so even if he knew he had a kid he wouldn't have been there to identify her. If she had family that knew her dad worked and possibly lived near the prison you would hope they would have reported her missing and if they heard about WCJD they would check to see if she was their missing child.

It couldn't have been easy for a teenager to get a prison pen pal, she would possibly have to have a relative or someone she knew inside at least at some point. I had a cousin who was locked up in Louisiana when I was 17, I received letters from his friends inside. I would think an inmate would also tell her the visiting hours if he invited her. I was a thousand miles away and they didn't seem to be getting out for awhile so it didn't bother me. I wonder what that prison's policy was on mail? Did they have someone reading and checking incoming letters? It was a max prison but still I'm guessing a lot of mail came in. Does anyone know what the visitation rules were?
And then again maybe it was just a landmark on her way somewhere else.
Sorry for the ramble.

Back in those days it was common for people to put ads in the paper for pen pals. Even today the prison pen pal thing still goes on. I know a lady who started writing to a prisoner and ended up marrying him when he was released.

In regards to other posts. WCJD was described as having perfect teeth but I have also seen it said she had four fillings. The fact that her teeth were well taken care of led them to think she was from a nice home. She was exhumed at one point and an analysis was done of her remains. They determined she was in the younger years of the age range so about 14-16 years old. The waitress said the girl claimed to be 19 but she said that was an obvious lie. It was also said she was between 5' and 5'3". She had a scar on her eyebrow, pierced ears, and pink toenails. She told the waitress that she was going to see a friend at the Ellis Unit. That unit was housing the death row inmates at the time (1965-1999). There were some infamous guys there at the time like Candy Man (the man who poisoned his own son with Halloween candy). I doubt there would be any visiting allowed at the hour she would have arrived at the prison. Even if she was just there to see an employee.

 

[cherrymeg]

Prison Pen Pals used to be run in most newspapers and periodicals like Mother Earth. It was pretty easy to find one during that time...

Wow, I didn't know it was that common or in regular papers.

 

[cherrymeg]

Back in those days it was common for people to put ads in the paper for pen pals. Even today the prison pen pal thing still goes on. I know a lady who started writing to a prisoner and ended up marrying him when he was released.

In regards to other posts. WCJD was described as having perfect teeth but I have also seen it said she had four fillings. The fact that her teeth were well taken care of led them to think she was from a nice home. She was exhumed at one point and an analysis was done of her remains. They determined she was in the younger years of the age range so about 14-16 years old. The waitress said the girl claimed to be 19 but she said that was an obvious lie. It was also said she was between 5' and 5'3". She had a scar on her eyebrow, pierced ears, and pink toenails. She told the waitress that she was going to see a friend at the Ellis Unit. That unit was housing the death row inmates at the time (1965-1999). There were some infamous guys there at the time like Candy Man (the man who poisoned his own son with Halloween candy). I doubt there would be any visiting allowed at the hour she would have arrived at the prison. Even if she was just there to see an employee.

Where there non-death row inmates too? I wonder what the visitation rules were. I know their are websites where you can write to a death row inmate, and there are probably others regular inmates can advertise on. I didn't realize inmates could post personal ads seeking penpals in regular news papers. I could see it almost being a joke to write to a prisoner as like a 14 year old, it sounds something you might even do as a dare with friends. Wouldn't a parent or guardian notice mail from a prison addressed to a young girl? I guess an inmate could have another penpal send letters to her. Were there any other infamous men in that unit that would have attracted groupies? Any that were caught for committing similar murders. Maybe she was killed by a fan of one of them (probably out there).